Sheldon wrote:

Sheesh... what cheap *******s! A kitchen that took two solid weeks to
complete must have cost many, many thousands of dollars, required a
lot of back breaking and careful work to turn out without incident.
Offering the workers a meal with a beer is like spending $40,000 on a
bathroom makeover and tipping the workers with a shit, shower, and a
shave.

RFC sure got some CHEAP mother****ers.

Lockheed Martin engineers are highly paid 'contractors'. Would you tip them?
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...

ChattyCathy wrote:
Sheldon wrote:

Sheesh... what cheap *******s! �A kitchen that took two solid weeks to
complete must have cost many, many thousands of dollars, required a
lot of back breaking and careful work to turn out without incident.
Offering the workers a meal with a beer is like spending $40,000 on a
bathroom makeover and tipping the workers with a shit, shower, and a
shave.

RFC sure got some CHEAP mother****ers.

Lockheed Martin engineers are highly paid 'contractors'. Would you tip them?

Lockhead Martin engineers aren't kitchen contractor's workers... now
we all know you readily admit that you're a cheap mother****er.

Sheldon wrote:

ChattyCathy wrote:
Sheldon wrote:

Sheesh... what cheap *******s! �A kitchen that took two solid weeks to
complete must have cost many, many thousands of dollars, required a
lot of back breaking and careful work to turn out without incident.
Offering the workers a meal with a beer is like spending $40,000 on a
bathroom makeover and tipping the workers with a shit, shower, and a
shave.

RFC sure got some CHEAP mother****ers.

Lockheed Martin engineers are highly paid 'contractors'. Would you tip
them?

Lockhead Martin engineers aren't kitchen contractor's workers...

Well, for what some of them charge, you'd think they were..

now
we all know you readily admit that you're a cheap mother****er.

If you say so, Shel.

BTW, it's Lockheed, not Lockhead.

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...

On Jul 15, 11:39Â*am, Nancy2 wrote:
On Jul 14, 5:07 pm, Sheldon wrote:





On Jul 14, 5:24�pm, Nancy2 wrote:

On Jul 14, 3:18�pm, "MareCat" wrote:

We're currently in the middle of a kitchen remodeling job (new cabinets,
countertops, backsplash, sink, island, flooring, lighting, painting, and
removing two walls). The contractor and workers have been *awesome* so far
(making excellent progress, very easy to work with, constantly giving us
updates, company owner comes to the work site to check work and meet with us
every day, etc.). They're even expecting to complete the project almost a
week earlier than planned (just over two weeks--rather than three
weeks--from start to finish).

If all ends up well (as we fully expect it will), we'd like to give each of
the two workers some sort of tip. What is the proper etiquette for tipping
contractors/workers for projects like this? Just wondering what others here
have done.

TIA-
Mary

My son and his wife "tipped" their contractor and his wife with a
great dinner in their new home.

I have "tipped" subs with gift cards at the local Lowe's, Menard's or
WalMart.

I have given cash to carpet layers.

I have also not tipped at all.

It's all in what you think about tipping, if it's appropriate or not,
if you got more than your money's worth, what the local custom is,
etc., and especially, whether you might need them again in the
future. �Do whatever your gut says. �Sometimes a six-pack of ice cold
beer at the end of the day is enough. ;-)

Sheesh... what cheap *******s! Â*A kitchen that took two solid weeks to
complete must have cost many, many thousands of dollars, required a
lot of back breaking and careful work to turn out without incident.
Offering the workers a meal with a beer is like spending $40,000 on a
bathroom makeover and tipping the workers with a shit, shower, and a
shave.

RFC sure got some CHEAP mother****ers.

It's all in the local custom, Shel - as others have said - and how you
feel about what you got for the money and if you're talking about the
contractor, or the subs....

My kitchen remodel cost less than $15,000 and took about 3 weeks.
Believe me, the contractor and his sole helper got plenty for the
hours they put in.

My current contractor (finish carpenter) makes about $500 a day for 6
hours - I don't think I need to tip him at all ---

I specfically said *not* to tip contractors and subs, only their
workers.

And a kitchen remodel that cost less than $15,000 but took some three
weeks says there's something not being told... $15,000 doesn't even
cover the cost of materials for a very basic small kitchen... and no
contractor is going to tie up his crew for three whole weeks for that
kind of money.

"Sheldon" wrote



It's a job they are paid to do and last I knew,
construction workers were well paid. �

Barb, you're wrong, very wrong. The contractor (company owner) and
subs (various professional tradesmen) are well paid and shouldn't be
tipped, but their helpers, the guys who do all the loading, unloading,
heaving, hammering, and general schlepping are not well paid, but they
are the ones who make or break the job. Generally the contractor
isn't even on the job site very much, they are out making the rounds
of other works in progress. And the subs (licenced plumbers,
electricians, etc.) are in their own right bosses who are there just
for their part of the job, they don't get tipped either, but their
helpers who do all the physical work do not get paid well and should
be tipped. Just like at a restaurant you don't tip the owner, but a
proclaimed cheapster as yourself (hopefully) at least tips the service
people, or best you never return... and so should the contractor's
employees get tipped too.

Just as restaurant staff discuss the various customer's behavior and
tipping habits so do all the local building trades people. After a
day's labor they all meet at their favorite watering hole (workers and
bosses alike) where they discuss in minute detail the various
homeowners they are doing jobs for in the community, they compare
notes and word gets around about who is a PITA and who is a cheap
*******... watch out the next time you need a job done, you will
definitely be quoted higher prices and they will rip you off every
which way they can, with inferior materials and slipshod workmanship.
And you'll never know you're being singled out to charge more and give
less, because every contractor and construction worker, from
landscaper to roofer, within a hundred mile radius will know you're
cheap. The contractors have to keep their workers, so they'll charge
the cheapskates more and give the workers the extra bonus you should
have given, the workers need the contractors to succeed too... and so
the workers and contractors develop even more of a bond to screw the
cheapsters. And in fact the contractors will add onto the price three
times the tip you should have given, so by not tipping you screw
yourself in more ways than you can imagine... the contractor will have
no qualms about pulling his workers off a cheapskate's job to expedite
a job where the customer is generous.

I've been a carpenter in various forms all my working life. (I'm 41 now)
Every word Sheldon said above is true.


I'd probably give them a jar of jam.

Puhlezzze! Construction workers don't want your little jar of jam...
why don't you give each a little bouquet of petunias too... just
because they work with their backs doesn't mean they have no brain
cells, and they know very well that with your picture on the label
that you are doing it more to stroke your own ego than as a show of
appreciation... just like those who want to fix them a meal are really
saying "look at me", not thank you... soon as they're out of earshot
they will look at each other and say the daft old gal can shove it,
she needs it more... most won't even bring it home, they'll toss it in
the dumpster as they leave because they'll be too embarrassed to show
their wives that's what they got for a tip for busting their hump for
two weeks. In fact construction workers don't bring gifts of a
personal nature home, their wives will suspect they're banging the
lady of the house, her sister, daughter, someone... cash talks,
bullshit walks... giving someone a gift of something you got for free
or obviously didn't pay full price is worse than no gift at all.

I'll have to disagree with that. In the condition I come home from work, my
wife couldn't suspect me of banging anything above a mule.


You'll get a much nicer recommendation around town if you tip the
workers cash enough to at least pay an evening's tab at the watering
hole. Anyone thinks the local trades people don't discuss their
customers is very ignorant... and when I say discuss I mean DISCUSS,
from the size of your tits to the size of your tips.

Those details are discussed on the job as well. Out of earshot of said
homeowner.



TFM®

"Janet" wrote:

I have a small business, and I hired some seasonal help last year. (A young
couple in financial straits that I knew in another context.) The first day,
I discovered that they hadn't brought lunch, so I offered the makings for
wraps or sandwiches and let them serve themselves.

They proceeded to assume that I was going to provide lunch for them every
day.

Obviously *your* miscommunication or lack thereof... yours is a food
business where sandwiches are served, how can you not assume without
saying anything to the contrary that your feeding them sandwiches for
lunch was not construed to be a job perk... besides, it's traditional
for food service employees to eat for free. Food service workers
handle your food... for you to not feed them would be gross stupidity
on your part. Food service businesses traditionally permit their
employees to take their meals for free, just not to bring product
home. Surveys prove that within a week of handling the same foods all
day every day the employees would rather eat elsewhere... when people
work in a deli slicing cold cuts hour after hour the last thing they
want for lunch is a ham sandwhich. One way to ensure employees won't
mess with the food is to permit them to eat all they want, no
guarantees of course but prohibiting their indulgence guarantees
absolutely that they will sabotage your product at every opportunity
just to spite you.

Many years ago I worked for Bartons Bonbonnaire (for those who don't
know, they were thee chocolatiers extraordinaire). Their company
policy was that employees could eat all they want on the job, just
don't get caught stealing. I loved chocolate so for the first few
days I stuffed myself to the gills with every kind of chocolate
confection imaginable. And than all of a sudden the thought of eating
that stuff made me gack, the smell alone nauseated me... for the next
three years I worked there I never ate any chocolate. Even after
leaving that job it was about five years before I began to enjoy
chocolate again. Even though they could eat all they wanted none of
their employees that I knew of ate chocolate. Employees were not
permitted to bring any foods into the premises either lest the
chocolate aroma would be compromised.

TFM® wrote:

"Sheldon" wrote



It's a job they are paid to do and last I knew,
construction workers were well paid. ?

Barb, you're wrong, very wrong. The contractor (company owner) and
subs (various professional tradesmen) are well paid and shouldn't be
tipped, but their helpers, the guys who do all the loading, unloading,
heaving, hammering, and general schlepping are not well paid, but they
are the ones who make or break the job. Generally the contractor
isn't even on the job site very much, they are out making the rounds
of other works in progress. And the subs (licenced plumbers,
electricians, etc.) are in their own right bosses who are there just
for their part of the job, they don't get tipped either, but their
helpers who do all the physical work do not get paid well and should
be tipped. Just like at a restaurant you don't tip the owner, but a
proclaimed cheapster as yourself (hopefully) at least tips the service
people, or best you never return... and so should the contractor's
employees get tipped too.

Just as restaurant staff discuss the various customer's behavior and
tipping habits so do all the local building trades people. After a
day's labor they all meet at their favorite watering hole (workers and
bosses alike) where they discuss in minute detail the various
homeowners they are doing jobs for in the community, they compare
notes and word gets around about who is a PITA and who is a cheap
*******... watch out the next time you need a job done, you will
definitely be quoted higher prices and they will rip you off every
which way they can, with inferior materials and slipshod workmanship.
And you'll never know you're being singled out to charge more and give
less, because every contractor and construction worker, from
landscaper to roofer, within a hundred mile radius will know you're
cheap. The contractors have to keep their workers, so they'll charge
the cheapskates more and give the workers the extra bonus you should
have given, the workers need the contractors to succeed too... and so
the workers and contractors develop even more of a bond to screw the
cheapsters. And in fact the contractors will add onto the price three
times the tip you should have given, so by not tipping you screw
yourself in more ways than you can imagine... the contractor will have
no qualms about pulling his workers off a cheapskate's job to expedite
a job where the customer is generous.

I've been a carpenter in various forms all my working life. (I'm 41 now)
Every word Sheldon said above is true.


Yup, Sheldon's post should be ratified by the Congress and amended to the US
Consitution...what he sez is spot - on. It's just common sense, but MANY
folks lack common sense...especially when it comes to "greasing" the
"goose", so to speak...

;-)


--
Best
Greg

Stan Horwitz wrote:

In article ,
"MareCat" wrote:

We're currently in the middle of a kitchen remodeling job (new cabinets,
countertops, backsplash, sink, island, flooring, lighting, painting, and
removing two walls). The contractor and workers have been *awesome* so
far
(making excellent progress, very easy to work with, constantly giving us
updates, company owner comes to the work site to check work and meet
with us
every day, etc.). They're even expecting to complete the project almost
a
week earlier than planned (just over two weeks--rather than three
weeks--from start to finish).

If all ends up well (as we fully expect it will), we'd like to give each
of
the two workers some sort of tip. What is the proper etiquette for
tipping
contractors/workers for projects like this? Just wondering what others
here
have done.

My dad was a contractor and so was his brother. They are retired now,
but they easily had 100 years of experience between them. I literally
worked for them (mostly my dad) from age five to about 20 when I
graduated college and I pursued my own career.

No one ever gave my dad a monetary tip as far as I remember. Believe me,
my dad worked for well above minimum wage. I don't know how much my dad
earned (prevailing opinion is that no one does except him and the IRS).
Back in the 70's when minimum wage was just three dollars an hour, my
dad paid me and an occasional friend $15/hour. We were paid a lot more
then your average restaurant worker, where tips are expected.

A few of my dad's projects were featured in local magazines and one of
them was even featured in a national magazine. My dad used to charge
fairly high rates for major projects such as an addition. I know that
because some customers had the nerve to complain to me that my dad was
expensive. He was also a pain in the neck to work for (very demanding).

Once in a while, a happy customer would bring a bottle of wine to our
house to thank my dad for all his hard work. When I was a kid, some of
the customers would also treat my dad and me to lunch while we were on
the job (such as send out for pizza or sandwiches) and they almost
always offered us cold drinks (which was much appreciated). That was it
though.


Things have changed a *lot* since the 70's in regards to tipping some
categories of service people...and you were just a kid doing summer labor,
it was not yer livelihood...you can't pay the light bill with a bottle 'o
wine.


So, I suggest to you that instead of a tip, make sure you have plenty of
cold drinks. Ask your contractors what kind of drinks they prefer and
maybe offer to treat them to lunch or have some snacks on hand.


They'll most probably bring all that stuff along with them in a cooler
anyways, Stan...they are not going to put up with the vagaries of a customer
providing them with drinx 'n snax.


--
Best
Greg

Janet wrote:
Color me Cheap, but I wouldn't be tipping anybody. It's a job they are
paid to do and last I knew, construction workers were well paid. I'd
probably give them a jar of jam and my deep thanks with appreciation.

Me too.

I don't tip the people at the local Caribou (coffee house), either.

I tip coffee house people because I'm assuming they are making food service
wages.

I have a small business, and I hired some seasonal help last year. (A young
couple in financial straits that I knew in another context.) The first day,
I discovered that they hadn't brought lunch, so I offered the makings for
wraps or sandwiches and let them serve themselves.

They proceeded to assume that I was going to provide lunch for them every
day. My income isn't any higher than theirs. That's the last time I serve
lunch to anyone. (The other seasonal workers I hired--the really good
ones--always brought their own lunches as a matter of course.)

Are you in Texas? Were your seasonal workers Hispanic? Been there, done
that, got the t-shirt.

Becca

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"MareCat" wrote

If all ends up well (as we fully expect it will), we'd like to give each
of the two workers some sort of tip. What is the proper etiquette for
tipping contractors/workers for projects like this? Just wondering what
others here have done.

Mare, I make sure I have plenty of ice water, some regular sodas, and feed
them though I've not have a kitchen remodel where I couldnt cook.

Examples:

Chimney repair guys, here 6 hours. Decent weather and a bit hot actually.
Iceies, fresh bread, sliced cheeses, chicken homemade soup (really more of
a brunswick stew), and sliced tomatoes plus sides of peeled oranges. Fixed
several small cosmetic issues for free (stuff we do not know bricklaying
enough to do)
snippage of similar stories

My wallet is slim due to many repairs (renters did a lot of damage) but I
always feed the workers and i think to make sure the meal suits all or
make up a little something for the one it doesnt.

This is one of the best stories I've heard on rfc. You are both smart AND
have a kind and generous heart.

TammyM

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:29:46 -0500, Lou Decruss
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:52:07 -0400, Billy Hereiam@hotmaildotcom
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:18:13 -0400, "MareCat"
wrote:

We're currently in the middle of a kitchen remodeling job (new cabinets,
countertops, backsplash, sink, island, flooring, lighting, painting, and
removing two walls).

Since you are remodeling.....with a new kitchen.....why don't you
invite the helpers for a "nice" lunch. Show off what you just had
installed including your cooking talents.

Some of the shit I read here amazes me.

The last thing the workers want to do is return for a "tip." They
really could care less about the kitchen once it's done. They're off
to the next one. Unless they need to return for a trouble call you
and your job are yesterdays news. They're not there for fun or to
enjoy your company. They're there to make money. Actually most of
the time the workers bees despise the homeowner. Give them a case of
beer or some cash if you can, but don't expect them to come back for a
meal for you to show off what they built.

Lou

i'm with lou. cash or something equally liquid.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

(Steve Pope) wrote:
Dave Smith wrote:

Janet wrote:
[attribution lost] wrote,
I don't tip the people at the local Caribou (coffee house), either.
I tip coffee house people because I'm assuming they are making food service
wages.
I tip servers who take my order and bring me food. Counter service is self
service.

Do you not tip bartenders either? �

If you do, how are barristas any different?


I don't see any way that counter service is self service, in fact a
server behind a busy counter exerts far more effort than a table
server and the job requires more expertise, often their constant
motion is a blur. People typically choose counter service because
they are in a hurry and so expect expediency... a good counter person
works very hard to move the food so the customers can get on with
it... those counter servers hustle, they definitely deserve a tip. I
like counter service and whenever possible seat myself in front of
where ice cream is hand dipped by the Dairy Queens, because those
servers are typically working bent over and the spectacular views
alone are certainly worth the tip... and I ain't just talkin' rocky
road, I'm tawkin' Grand Teatons! hehe

In my town there is a pizzeria type restaurant, with a large dining
area up front (like 75 tables seating a few hundred), an open kitchen
area at the back wall with a "U" shaped counter surronding, and in a
back room is a smallish sports bar type affair where the local
riffraff hang... ever so often if I'm in town about meal time rather
than eat alone up front I head for the bar filled with grundgy Low
Rider types for a few beers and a pasta dish... of course I tip the
barmaid. And more often than not the bar hounds will exchange rounds
and send a drink over and how can I not reciprocate, after all I knew
the possiblity existed when I entered and deposited my ass on a bar
stool rather than in one of the booths along the wall, so it's
definitely not an atmosphere for cheapo pricks.

These kind of threads never cease to reinforce what has always been my
premise, that the vast majority of folks will manufacture any excuse
to butress their cheap *******ness. Now I heard a new one... HTF is
counter service self service?!?!?

Sheldon wrote:


These kind of threads never cease to reinforce what has always been my
premise, that the vast majority of folks will manufacture any excuse
to butress their cheap *******ness. Now I heard a new one... HTF is
counter service self service?!?!?

OTOH, the expectation of tips is just another way of weaselling more money out of
customers. We are expected to pay extra for food and services because we don't want
to pay high prices for things and there is sometimes not enough profit margin for
owners to pay their staff well, or the owners just stuff their own pockets and stiff
their staff.

When it comes to the topic of tipping contractors, you have the option of signing on
with someone who pays their staff well and then passes on the labour costs to the
customer, or you can go with the one who undercuts the competition by paying his
workers less and then we can tip the workers so that we can feel better about
ourselves.

Sheldon wrote:


I don't see any way that counter service is self service, in fact a
server behind a busy counter exerts far more effort than a table
server and the job requires more expertise, often their constant
motion is a blur. People typically choose counter service because
they are in a hurry and so expect expediency... a good counter person
works very hard to move the food so the customers can get on with
it... those counter servers hustle, they definitely deserve a tip. I
like counter service and whenever possible seat myself in front of
where ice cream is hand dipped by the Dairy Queens, because those
servers are typically working bent over and the spectacular views
alone are certainly worth the tip... and I ain't just talkin' rocky
road, I'm tawkin' Grand Teatons! hehe

In my town there is a pizzeria type restaurant, with a large dining
area up front (like 75 tables seating a few hundred), an open kitchen
area at the back wall with a "U" shaped counter surronding, and in a
back room is a smallish sports bar type affair where the local
riffraff hang... ever so often if I'm in town about meal time rather
than eat alone up front I head for the bar filled with grundgy Low
Rider types for a few beers and a pasta dish... of course I tip the
barmaid. And more often than not the bar hounds will exchange rounds
and send a drink over and how can I not reciprocate, after all I knew
the possiblity existed when I entered and deposited my ass on a bar
stool rather than in one of the booths along the wall, so it's
definitely not an atmosphere for cheapo pricks.

These kind of threads never cease to reinforce what has always been my
premise, that the vast majority of folks will manufacture any excuse
to butress their cheap *******ness. Now I heard a new one... HTF is
counter service self service?!?!?

I always prefer sitting at a bar/counter, too. TFM® and I always choose
that first, if it's an option. You tend to get decent conversation, more
efficient service and a better feel of the place - if it's your first time
in there. Why wait for a table if there's an open seat at the bar? Oh, and
we always tip.

kili

On Jul 14, 4:18*pm, "MareCat" wrote:
We're currently in the middle of a kitchen remodeling job (new cabinets,
countertops, backsplash, sink, island, flooring, lighting, painting, and
removing two walls). The contractor and workers have been *awesome* so far
(making excellent progress, very easy to work with, constantly giving us
updates, company owner comes to the work site to check work and meet with us
every day, etc.). They're even expecting to complete the project almost a
week earlier than planned (just over two weeks--rather than three
weeks--from start to finish).

If all ends up well (as we fully expect it will), we'd like to give each of
the two workers some sort of tip. What is the proper etiquette for tipping
contractors/workers for projects like this? Just wondering what others here
have done.

TIA-
Mary

I've never heard of tipping in this case but a gift ( Booze. Food ,
Keepsakes) might be appropriate.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada