I was quite surprised to see this chef produce a meat loaf that
contained absolutely no binding agent (eg oats, couccous or fresh
breadcrumbs). All other ingredients appeared to be normal and what I
would generally include.

My friend confirmed my query as this mixture was placed on top of some
of the sauce that accompanied this meat loaf before it went into the
oven.

Sure enough, when it was turned out onto a plate it collapsed and fell
completely to pieces as an attempt was made to cut "slices".

Did anyone else notice this disaster?

Cheers


Fialca

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 10:27:25 +1200, Fialca
wrote:

I was quite surprised to see this chef produce a meat loaf that
contained absolutely no binding agent (eg oats, couccous or fresh
breadcrumbs). All other ingredients appeared to be normal and what I
would generally include.

My friend confirmed my query as this mixture was placed on top of some
of the sauce that accompanied this meat loaf before it went into the
oven.

Sure enough, when it was turned out onto a plate it collapsed and fell
completely to pieces as an attempt was made to cut "slices".

Did anyone else notice this disaster?

Nope didn't see it. I use egg as a binder. Maybe one per pound and I
hate fillers, like breadcrumbs.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Jul 12, 3:27*pm, Fialca wrote:
I was quite surprised to see this chef produce a meat loaf that
contained absolutely no binding agent (eg oats, couccous or fresh
breadcrumbs). *All other ingredients appeared to be normal and what I
would generally include.
...
Sure enough, when it was turned out onto a plate it collapsed and fell
completely to pieces as an attempt was made to cut "slices".

Did anyone else notice this disaster?

Didn't see it but there's nothing unusual about minimizing or omitting
the fillers like breadcrumbs or oats. It's the egg that will hold it
together and you don't say whether he included any. That said, I
don't like a crumbly meat loaf because I make it mostly for sandwiches
and I want the slice to stay firmly together. I use a little
breadcrumb as filler, but not as much as most recipes call for. I
always use egg(s) and it never breaks apart on me. -aem
.

Fialca wrote:
I was quite surprised to see this chef produce a meat loaf that
contained absolutely no binding agent (eg oats, couccous or fresh
breadcrumbs). All other ingredients appeared to be normal and what I
would generally include.

My friend confirmed my query as this mixture was placed on top of some
of the sauce that accompanied this meat loaf before it went into the
oven.

Sure enough, when it was turned out onto a plate it collapsed and fell
completely to pieces as an attempt was made to cut "slices".

Did anyone else notice this disaster?

The binding agent in meat loaf is usually egg. Bread and milk are used
as a tenderizer. Oats and other "fillers" may be used to extend the
meat, but they generally don't bind.

He could have used meat that was too lean. I've found that the leaner
the meat, the drier and more friable the loaf.

aem wrote in news:fe967bd9-fa3a-4187-9101-
:

On Jul 12, 3:27*pm, Fialca wrote:
I was quite surprised to see this chef produce a meat loaf that
contained absolutely no binding agent (eg oats, couccous or fresh
breadcrumbs). *All other ingredients appeared to be normal and what I
would generally include.
...
Sure enough, when it was turned out onto a plate it collapsed and fell
completely to pieces as an attempt was made to cut "slices".

Did anyone else notice this disaster?

Didn't see it but there's nothing unusual about minimizing or omitting
the fillers like breadcrumbs or oats. It's the egg that will hold it
together and you don't say whether he included any. That said, I
don't like a crumbly meat loaf because I make it mostly for sandwiches
and I want the slice to stay firmly together. I use a little
breadcrumb as filler, but not as much as most recipes call for. I
always use egg(s) and it never breaks apart on me. -aem
.


I use eggs and crushed saltine crackers (size of a pea). The crackers are
there mostly to soak up the beer I use as well.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

"l, not -l" wrote in message
...

On 12-Jul-2008, Fialca wrote:

I was quite surprised to see this chef produce a meat loaf that
contained absolutely no binding agent (eg oats, couccous or fresh
breadcrumbs). All other ingredients appeared to be normal and what I
would generally include.

The items you listed are not binders, they are fillers and not necessary
to
make a meat loaf, only to make a bigger one with cheaper ingredients.
Egg
is the binder I use, whether using filler or not.


If you mix the meat enough you will extract the myosin and that will keep it
together. That is how sausage works. OTOH, if you mix it too much, it can
be hard so the fillers help there too.

"Fialca" wrote in message
...
I was quite surprised to see this chef produce a meat loaf that
contained absolutely no binding agent (eg oats, couccous or fresh
breadcrumbs). All other ingredients appeared to be normal and what I
would generally include.

My friend confirmed my query as this mixture was placed on top of some
of the sauce that accompanied this meat loaf before it went into the
oven.

Sure enough, when it was turned out onto a plate it collapsed and fell
completely to pieces as an attempt was made to cut "slices".

Did anyone else notice this disaster?

Cheers


Fialca


Binding agents - EGG, egg white, egg substitute, fat.

Fillers - oats, bread crumbs, cornflakes, etc.

If you are not using fillers you don't need a binding agent.

For example a hamburger patty holds together all by itself.

Add a filler and you need a binding agent to "glue" the filler to the meat.

That's how it works.


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

Nope didn't see it. I use egg as a binder. Maybe one per pound and I
hate fillers, like breadcrumbs.

Some questions, if you don' mind:

Those meat loaves must be more "meaty", like giant burgers or
something? I would like to move in that direction.

I've used two meat loaf recipes, one calling for ripped up bread, the
other calling for bread crumbs, and have not really liked either one.
They're very dense and not particularly meaty, even though I know
perfectly well that they are full of meat.

Do you think one can just take any recipe and eliminate the fillers . .
.. ?

"Cuthbert Thistlethwaite" wrote in message
I've used two meat loaf recipes, one calling for ripped up bread, the
other calling for bread crumbs, and have not really liked either one.
They're very dense and not particularly meaty, even though I know
perfectly well that they are full of meat.

Do you think one can just take any recipe and eliminate the fillers . .
. ?

Sure, meatloaf is one of those things that you can easily change. As for too
dense, it may also be meat that is too lean. The 90% lean stuff just does
not work as well if you like juicy.

I like to cook mine in the cast iron pans surrounded by cut up potatoes.

Cuthbert Thistlethwaite wrote in
:



Nope didn't see it. I use egg as a binder. Maybe one per pound and I
hate fillers, like breadcrumbs.

Some questions, if you don' mind:

Those meat loaves must be more "meaty", like giant burgers or
something? I would like to move in that direction.

I've used two meat loaf recipes, one calling for ripped up bread, the
other calling for bread crumbs, and have not really liked either one.
They're very dense and not particularly meaty, even though I know
perfectly well that they are full of meat.

Do you think one can just take any recipe and eliminate the fillers . .
. ?

pretty much as long as you use egg. But you need something in or it will
be REALLY dense as in sliced hamburger. Maybe the type of filler you're
using...a filler should be pretty neutral in taste. Try crushed soda
crackers or even cornflake crumbs instead of the bread crumbs. Or maybe
you just don't like meatloaf. Oh a good meatloaf has more than 1 type of
ground meat in it. Say beef, pork and some other ground meat...not just
hamburger, at least beef and pork. Also fat content should be fairly high
so no extra lean ground beef. But to truly be helpful post your meatloaf
recipe and let us pick thru it. Can't fix what we can't see.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

. . . But to truly be helpful post your meatloaf
recipe and let us pick thru it. Can't fix what we can't see.

Thanks, here we go:

My personal lesson he It is not easy for a rank beginner to read a
recipe and totally understand exactly where it is going.

From "The Good Houskeeping Cookbook", 1963. My Mother's last cook book,
and the only one I still have:

Page 106 (verbatim)

quote

Meat Loaf

2 cups fresh bread crumbs
3/4 cup minced onion
1/4 cup minced green pepper
2 eggs
2 lbs. ground chuck
2 tbsps horse-radish
2 1/2 tsp salt
1 tsp dry mustard
1/4 cup milk or evap milk
3/4 cup catchup

1. When it's convenient, prepare bread crumbs, minced onion, green
pepper.

2. About 1 hour before serving: Start heating oven to 400 F.

3. In large bowl, with fork, beat eggs slightly. *Lightly* mix in
chuck, then crumbs, onion, pepper. (Meat will be juicier and more
tender if you handle it as little as possible.) Add horse-radish, salt,
mustard, milk, 1/4 cup catchup; combine lightly but well.

4. In bowl, shape meat into oval loaf; transfer to shallow baking dish
or broil-and-serve platter; smooth into shapely loaf. Spread top with
1/2 cup catchup. Bake 50 min.

5. Serve from baking dish or broil-and-serve platter, pouring off excess
juices. Or, with 2 broad spatulas, lift loaf out of baking dish onto
heated platter. Spoon some of juices over meat. (Nice chilled, then
served sliced, too.) Makes 8 servings.

P.S. If you prefer a soft, moist exterior, bake meat loaf as directed in
9" x 5" x 3" loaf pan. pour juices from pan after baking. Unmold meat
loaf onto cake rack; then place, right side up, on heated platter. Use
juices for making gravy if desired.

/quote

----

Here's what I did:

The chuck available in the Jewel in Chicago is pretty lean, less than 20
percent fat.
Used a jar of dried minced onion
Skipped the pepper
Put the "catchup" into the loaf but did not slather "catchup" onto the
top, since I'm not that big a fan of "catchup."
Used the loaf pan method described in the P.S. part.
Drizzled only about a third of the juices onto the loaf at then end.
The juices were cloudy and did not look all that good.

Here's what I got:

A loaf about the consistency of a brick, and it was sweet, which I
attribute to all those onions. You really can't readily tell it's made
of meat. I worked my way through it, rather than waste all that chuck,
but it's just hardly all right, only if I coat it with A-1 sauce.

Here's what I want:

A really meaty recipe, favoring beef, but I'm interested in everything.

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:24:53 -0500, Cuthbert Thistlethwaite
wrote:


My personal lesson he It is not easy for a rank beginner to read a
recipe and totally understand exactly where it is going.

From "The Good Houskeeping Cookbook", 1963. My Mother's last cook book,
and the only one I still have:

Page 106 (verbatim)

quote

Meat Loaf

2 cups fresh bread crumbs
3/4 cup minced onion
1/4 cup minced green pepper
2 eggs
2 lbs. ground chuck
2 tbsps horse-radish
2 1/2 tsp salt
1 tsp dry mustard
1/4 cup milk or evap milk
3/4 cup catchup


Here's what I did:

Used a jar of dried minced onion
Aaacck!!!!
Don't used dried. It's not the same thing...

For one thing, the fresh onion, which is called for, will add moisture
to the meatloaf. And the measurements are way off... A jar of dried
onion is probably way more onion than the fresh onion that is called
for.

My suggestion: When first working with a recipe, try it as written.
Don't substitute until you know what it turns out like. After that,
you might want to change something.

But until you learn more about cooking, it is probably better to
really follow the recipes as written.

And ask here, for instance...about using stuff like dried onion vs.
fresh. There is a BIG difference.

Christine

On Jul 13, 12:24*pm, Cuthbert Thistlethwaite
wrote:
[snip]
Here's what I did:

The chuck available in the Jewel in Chicago is pretty lean, less than 20
percent fat.
Used a jar of dried minced onion
Skipped the pepper
Put the "catchup" into the loaf but did not slather "catchup" onto the
top, since I'm not that big a fan of "catchup."
Used the loaf pan method described in the P.S. part.
Drizzled only about a third of the juices onto the loaf at then end.
The juices were cloudy and did not look all that good.

Here's what I got:

A loaf about the consistency of a brick, and it was sweet, which I
attribute to all those onions. *You really can't readily tell it's made
of meat. I worked my way through it, rather than waste all that chuck,
but it's just hardly all right, only if I coat it with A-1 sauce.

Here's what I want:

A really meaty recipe, favoring beef, but I'm interested in everything.

Meat loaf is a trial and error kind of dish, as everyone's preferences
differ. As Christine says, using dried onions was a mistake. The
recipe calls just for ground round but in my experience using a
mixture of meats greatly improves texture and taste. My favorite is 2
parts beef, 1 part each ground pork and ground veal. The veal is not
always available so I often use 2/3 beef and 1/3 pork, which is good.
All that bread is just filler and if you reduce it drastically the
meat taste should come more to the fore. In turn, reducing that
filler may allow you to use only one egg, especially if the grond pork
is nice and fatty, again making the meat more prominent. Add the milk
last and pay attention to how moist the loaf is. You may well not
need all of it. Think about the seasonings -- the mustard and
horseradish in particular and adjust to your taste as desired. Try it
again and see if you don't like it better. . -aem

Cuthbert Thistlethwaite wrote in
:


. . . But to truly be helpful post your meatloaf
recipe and let us pick thru it. Can't fix what we can't see.

Thanks, here we go:

My personal lesson he It is not easy for a rank beginner to read a
recipe and totally understand exactly where it is going.

From "The Good Houskeeping Cookbook", 1963. My Mother's last cook
book, and the only one I still have:

Page 106 (verbatim)

quote

Meat Loaf

2 cups fresh bread crumbs
3/4 cup minced onion
1/4 cup minced green pepper
2 eggs
2 lbs. ground chuck
2 tbsps horse-radish
2 1/2 tsp salt
1 tsp dry mustard
1/4 cup milk or evap milk
3/4 cup catchup

1. When it's convenient, prepare bread crumbs, minced onion, green
pepper.

2. About 1 hour before serving: Start heating oven to 400 F.

3. In large bowl, with fork, beat eggs slightly. *Lightly* mix in
chuck, then crumbs, onion, pepper. (Meat will be juicier and more
tender if you handle it as little as possible.) Add horse-radish,
salt, mustard, milk, 1/4 cup catchup; combine lightly but well.

4. In bowl, shape meat into oval loaf; transfer to shallow baking dish
or broil-and-serve platter; smooth into shapely loaf. Spread top with
1/2 cup catchup. Bake 50 min.

5. Serve from baking dish or broil-and-serve platter, pouring off
excess juices. Or, with 2 broad spatulas, lift loaf out of baking
dish onto heated platter. Spoon some of juices over meat. (Nice
chilled, then served sliced, too.) Makes 8 servings.

P.S. If you prefer a soft, moist exterior, bake meat loaf as directed
in 9" x 5" x 3" loaf pan. pour juices from pan after baking. Unmold
meat loaf onto cake rack; then place, right side up, on heated
platter. Use juices for making gravy if desired.

/quote

----

Here's what I did:

The chuck available in the Jewel in Chicago is pretty lean, less than
20 percent fat.
Used a jar of dried minced onion
Skipped the pepper
Put the "catchup" into the loaf but did not slather "catchup" onto the
top, since I'm not that big a fan of "catchup."
Used the loaf pan method described in the P.S. part.
Drizzled only about a third of the juices onto the loaf at then end.
The juices were cloudy and did not look all that good.

Here's what I got:

A loaf about the consistency of a brick, and it was sweet, which I
attribute to all those onions. You really can't readily tell it's
made of meat. I worked my way through it, rather than waste all that
chuck, but it's just hardly all right, only if I coat it with A-1
sauce.

Here's what I want:

A really meaty recipe, favoring beef, but I'm interested in
everything.


What I suggest is looking at several nay 4 or 5 meatloaf recipes from
various websites...compare them, examine the ratio of differing meats to
various other stuff and mix and match a recipe.

Personally I like powdered onion soup mix in my meatloaf. And replace
crumbs with ketchup. Others have other preferences

For your reading pleasu
Note...all these recipes are totally different, mostly.

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...EATLOAF-241512
http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1627...249193,00.html
http://lifewise.canoe.ca/FoodDrink/E...66040-sun.html
http://southernfood.about.com/od/mea...a/aa102399.htm
http://www.tastymeatloafrecipes.com/easymeatloaf.htm
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Savory-...af/Detail.aspx
http://www.1001recipe.com/recipes/food/glazed_meatloaf/
http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question...6040852AAgO9tz

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

Christine Dabney wrote in
:

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:24:53 -0500, Cuthbert Thistlethwaite
wrote:


My personal lesson he It is not easy for a rank beginner to read a
recipe and totally understand exactly where it is going.

From "The Good Houskeeping Cookbook", 1963. My Mother's last cook
book,
and the only one I still have:

Page 106 (verbatim)

quote

Meat Loaf

2 cups fresh bread crumbs
3/4 cup minced onion
1/4 cup minced green pepper
2 eggs
2 lbs. ground chuck
2 tbsps horse-radish
2 1/2 tsp salt
1 tsp dry mustard
1/4 cup milk or evap milk
3/4 cup catchup


Here's what I did:

Used a jar of dried minced onion
Aaacck!!!!
Don't used dried. It's not the same thing...

For one thing, the fresh onion, which is called for, will add moisture
to the meatloaf. And the measurements are way off... A jar of dried
onion is probably way more onion than the fresh onion that is called
for.

My suggestion: When first working with a recipe, try it as written.
Don't substitute until you know what it turns out like. After that,
you might want to change something.

But until you learn more about cooking, it is probably better to
really follow the recipes as written.

And ask here, for instance...about using stuff like dried onion vs.
fresh. There is a BIG difference.

Christine





A whole red onion dehydrates down to less than 2/3 cup of minced onion
flakes...did the dehydration myself.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan