On Jun 11, 9:31�am, Cookseasonal wrote:
hehe, planting too close you said?
Just walked into my garden.. Planted a few cabbages, at about 1 foot
(30cm) apart.. Two weeks ago before I left they had plenty of space.
Now the leaves are pushing against eachother, and summer is still to
start. I only did put in 2 rows of 5 plant.. What is your idea: Should
I remove every second plant? Or will they eventually 'hang' off to the
sides?

Head cabbage really needs at least two feet between plants... the dark
green outter leaves become huge and those are what catch the sun to
get energy to grow the head... if not too large yet dig out two from
each row with a large earth clump and plant elsewhere.. dig the new
holes first so you'll be ready to plant each in turn immediately, and
water each well. I plant head cabbge 2 1/2 feet apart and I get solid
heads the size of basketballs... always remember plants have roots,
they need room too. typically the root systam is larger than the above
ground plant.... plants need space if they are to fully develop.

On Jun 11, 2:42 pm, Sheldon wrote:
Head cabbage really needs at least two feet between plants... the dark
green outter leaves become huge and those are what catch the sun to
get energy to grow the head... if not too large yet dig out two from
each row with a large earth clump and plant elsewhere.. dig the new
holes first so you'll be ready to plant each in turn immediately, and
water each well. I plant head cabbge 2 1/2 feet apart and I get solid
heads the size of basketballs... always remember plants have roots,
they need room too. typically the root systam is larger than the above
ground plant.... plants need space if they are to fully develop.

ok, cool. Will wait for some cooler & wetter wheather. Perhaps
tomorrow.

Was wondering: Would you guys be interested in helping me fill up a
website with info on growing ingredients & cooking fresh food?

On Jun 11, 6:32*am, "Giusi" wrote:
"Sheldon" ha scritto nel messaggio
*and there
are far better methods for controling weeds, crowding is the worst,
teh weeds will still grow, right between the plants where you won't
notice untll they're well established, and then you'll disturb the
bean plant roots when pulling the mature weeds.

My experience varies widely from your conjecture. *This method works best
for people who aren't growing bushels of anything, but it does work and is
considered a very good organic way to grow beans.

I also grow tagetes or marigold around most vegetables for insect control.

Both methods work. Your close planting is usually accompanied by
raised beds and more soil preparation and hand weeding. Googling on
"intensive gardening" or "biodynamis gardening" brings up many
references, and "square foot gardening" is a variant on it. We used
to use Sheldon's traditional methods and plant spacings and his
recommendations are well suited for it. Then we built a couple small
raised beds and mostly follow the square foot gardening
guidelines. -aem

Personally I prefer to start runner beans in pots and then replant under
the frame that will be supporting them at the right time, that way there
are no surprises.

Amazingly bad year for germination, only 3 out of 14 seeds actually
germinated and I was too late to redo them

Steve

Cookseasonal wrote:
Do you have climbers? If not: Make
sur eyou get plnety of air between the plants, otherwise a few warm
moist days will make the stems start to rot.

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 04:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Cookseasonal
wrote:

On Jun 11, 12:34 pm, "Nancy Young" wrote:
Okay, I never grew beans before. Just thought it would be
a fun thing to do this year since I suddenly have a small place
to grow vegetables.

It's been fun. So far; I hope they hang in there (as in not be
eaten) until I can get some beans out of the deal.

I now get where the Jack and his magical beans story came from.
I looked at where I planted them a couple days ago. Maybe
that's them (some teensy green weed). I don't know.

Two hours later, I do not lie, I looked again and see some
weird disturbance in the earth, all these mounds of soils.
Damn, did something dig up my beans??

No. I moved a piece of dirt aside and there it was, a bean
plant! By the next morning they were an inch high. Freaky!!

nancy

Yeah, it is fun watching them. If you plant the beans after soaking
them for some 12 hours, they will pop out of the ground within a day,
if the weather is warm and sunny. Do you have climbers? If not: Make
sur eyou get plnety of air between the plants, otherwise a few warm
moist days will make the stems start to rot.


I grow all my bush beans in pots. Nothing too large, either. 8"-10
inches, max, some even smaller. I put at least 6 to 10 plants/beans
per pot. I have never, ever had any rot. Good enriched rich soil, some
Epsom salts and Osmocote is all I use. I have at least 5 varieties
growing this year.

I grow a lot of veggies in pots and tubs. My deck is sunnier than the
main garden. In pots and tubs I have:

13 tomato plants of various varieties, from grape and cherry to huge
beefsteaks
3 kinds of cukes
spinach
several lettuce/mesclun mixes
baby bok choi
broccoli
several types of radish
green beans
strawberries
yellow squash
the usual and unusual assortments of herbs
dwarf peaches
an olive tree
Meyer lemon
other citrus

Then there are the roses and other flowers, shrubs and trees I have in
pots and tubs. It is a terrific way to grow things.

The lower "real" garden has:
more tomatoes
acorn squash
garlic
more herbs
corn

Boron

On Jun 11, 8:31*am, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 04:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Cookseasonal





wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:34 pm, "Nancy Young" wrote:
Okay, I never grew beans before. *Just thought it would be
a fun thing to do this year since I suddenly have a small place
to grow vegetables.

It's been fun. *So far; I hope they hang in there (as in not be
eaten) until I can get some beans out of the deal.

I now get where the Jack and his magical beans story came from.
I looked at where I planted them a couple days ago. *Maybe
that's them (some teensy green weed). *I don't know.

Two hours later, I do not lie, I looked again and see some
weird disturbance in the earth, all these mounds of soils.
Damn, did something dig up my beans??

No. *I moved a piece of dirt aside and there it was, a bean
plant! *By the next morning they were an inch high. *Freaky!!

nancy

Yeah, it is fun watching them. If you plant the beans after soaking
them for some 12 hours, they will pop out of the ground within a day,
if the weather is warm and sunny. Do you have climbers? If not: Make
sur eyou get plnety of air between the plants, otherwise a few warm
moist days will make the stems start to rot.

I grow all my bush beans in pots. Nothing too large, either. 8"-10
inches, max, some even smaller. I put at least 6 to 10 plants/beans
per pot. I have never, ever had any rot. Good enriched rich soil, some
Epsom salts and Osmocote is all I use. I have at least 5 varieties
growing this year.

I grow a lot of veggies in pots and tubs. My deck is sunnier than the
main garden. In pots and tubs I have:

13 tomato plants of various varieties, from grape and cherry to huge
beefsteaks
3 kinds of cukes
spinach
several lettuce/mesclun mixes
baby bok choi
broccoli
several types of radish
green beans
strawberries
yellow squash
the usual and unusual assortments of herbs
dwarf peaches
an olive tree
Meyer lemon
other citrus

Then there are the roses and other flowers, shrubs and trees I have in
pots and tubs. It is a terrific way to grow things.

The lower "real" garden has:
more tomatoes
acorn squash
garlic
more herbs
corn

Boron- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm so glad I read your post! I was wondering about planting beans in
pots as the deck is the best place for sun(if we ever get any!!) in my
shady yard. I have a heck of a time with tomatoes, altho we usually
get a few. But I would love to have some beans, too. I recently had
surgery on my foot, so I have to wear a stupid boot thing for another
6 weeks, making it hard to go & try to dig in my yard. Containers
sound like my best bet!

Nancy Young said...

Okay, I never grew beans before. Just thought it would be
a fun thing to do this year since I suddenly have a small place
to grow vegetables.

It's been fun. So far; I hope they hang in there (as in not be
eaten) until I can get some beans out of the deal.

I now get where the Jack and his magical beans story came from.
I looked at where I planted them a couple days ago. Maybe
that's them (some teensy green weed). I don't know.

Two hours later, I do not lie, I looked again and see some
weird disturbance in the earth, all these mounds of soils.
Damn, did something dig up my beans??

No. I moved a piece of dirt aside and there it was, a bean
plant! By the next morning they were an inch high. Freaky!!

nancy


Brush off yer climbing shoes! Isn't the goose that lays golden eggs up
there?

Too tired to care but good luck.

Andy
Giant

On Jun 11, 4:49 pm, merryb wrote:

I'm so glad I read your post! I was wondering about planting beans in
pots as the deck is the best place for sun(if we ever get any!!) in my
shady yard. I have a heck of a time with tomatoes, altho we usually
get a few. But I would love to have some beans, too. I recently had
surgery on my foot, so I have to wear a stupid boot thing for another
6 weeks, making it hard to go & try to dig in my yard. Containers
sound like my best bet!

Hey Merry,

Why do you not get many tomatoes? I used to grow them in containers
all the time, and at the moment I have them in 2*2*6ft planter. Loads
of fruit. Just make sure you give them load of rooting space & water
very frequently, and you should get the stems loaded with bright right
bubbles of sunny flavour!

On Jun 11, 8:57*am, Cookseasonal wrote:
On Jun 11, 4:49 pm, merryb wrote:

I'm so glad I read your post! I was wondering about planting beans in
pots as the deck is the best place for sun(if we ever get any!!) in my
shady yard. I have a heck of a time with tomatoes, altho we usually
get a few. But I would love to have some beans, too. I recently had
surgery on my foot, so I have to wear a stupid boot thing for another
6 weeks, making it hard to go & try to dig in my yard. Containers
sound like my best bet!

Hey Merry,

Why do you not get many tomatoes? I used to grow them in containers
all the time, and at the moment I have them in 2*2*6ft planter. Loads
of fruit. Just make sure you give them load of rooting space & water
very frequently, and you should get the stems loaded with bright right
bubbles of sunny flavour!

Hi Cookie!!
I think it's because we just don't get much sun- 4-5 hours a day. I
actually thought about putting containers on our roof, but what a pain
it would be to water!! I have access to lots of tomato plants as my
mom starts a few hundred every year. The last 2 years, all the romas
got blight. So I have 2 on my deck, but no more as I hate to be
disappointed again...

On Jun 11, 5:14 pm, merryb wrote:
On Jun 11, 8:57 am, Cookseasonal wrote:



On Jun 11, 4:49 pm, merryb wrote:

I'm so glad I read your post! I was wondering about planting beans in
pots as the deck is the best place for sun(if we ever get any!!) in my
shady yard. I have a heck of a time with tomatoes, altho we usually
get a few. But I would love to have some beans, too. I recently had
surgery on my foot, so I have to wear a stupid boot thing for another
6 weeks, making it hard to go & try to dig in my yard. Containers
sound like my best bet!

Hey Merry,

Why do you not get many tomatoes? I used to grow them in containers
all the time, and at the moment I have them in 2*2*6ft planter. Loads
of fruit. Just make sure you give them load of rooting space & water
very frequently, and you should get the stems loaded with bright right
bubbles of sunny flavour!

Hi Cookie!!
I think it's because we just don't get much sun- 4-5 hours a day. I
actually thought about putting containers on our roof, but what a pain
it would be to water!! I have access to lots of tomato plants as my
mom starts a few hundred every year. The last 2 years, all the romas
got blight. So I have 2 on my deck, but no more as I hate to be
disappointed again...

hm.. Blight.. You'll have to help me there.. Is that the fungus? I
read somewhere that rain & day temperatures over 22 deg celcius are
the killer. So placing them under a little roof would help enormously.
But yeah.. They are sunlovers.. I try to grow them in full soil, and
some summers they just jump up (Like in the Godfathers' garden,
tomatoe stalks of 1/12, 2m (5-7ft) tall!

On Jun 11, 9:27*am, Cookseasonal wrote:
On Jun 11, 5:14 pm, merryb wrote:





On Jun 11, 8:57 am, Cookseasonal wrote:

On Jun 11, 4:49 pm, merryb wrote:

I'm so glad I read your post! I was wondering about planting beans in
pots as the deck is the best place for sun(if we ever get any!!) in my
shady yard. I have a heck of a time with tomatoes, altho we usually
get a few. But I would love to have some beans, too. I recently had
surgery on my foot, so I have to wear a stupid boot thing for another
6 weeks, making it hard to go & try to dig in my yard. Containers
sound like my best bet!

Hey Merry,

Why do you not get many tomatoes? I used to grow them in containers
all the time, and at the moment I have them in 2*2*6ft planter. Loads
of fruit. Just make sure you give them load of rooting space & water
very frequently, and you should get the stems loaded with bright right
bubbles of sunny flavour!

Hi Cookie!!
I think it's because we just don't get much sun- 4-5 hours a day. I
actually thought about putting containers on our roof, but what a pain
it would be to water!! I have access to lots of tomato plants as my
mom starts a few hundred every year. The last 2 years, all the romas
got blight. So I have 2 on my deck, but no more as I hate to be
disappointed again...

hm.. Blight.. You'll have to help me there.. Is that the fungus? I
read somewhere that rain & day temperatures over 22 deg celcius are
the killer. So placing them under a little roof would help enormously.
But yeah.. They are sunlovers.. I try to grow them in full soil, and
some summers they just jump up (Like in the Godfathers' garden,
tomatoe stalks of 1/12, 2m (5-7ft) tall!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it starts on the bottom of the fruit. I try to be careful when I
water so that it doesn't splash on the plant, but still have that
problem. I know lots of people in this area (Western Washington) that
have the same issues as I do. The weather is just not hot enough here.

aem wrote:
"Giusi" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote:

�and there
are far better methods for controling weeds, crowding is the worst,
the weeds will still grow, right between the plants where you won't
notice until they're well established, and then you'll disturb the
bean plant roots when pulling the mature weeds.

My experience varies widely from your conjecture. �

There's no conjecture about it... I actually have a garden that anyone
can see, and I've tried the method you only write about, it sucks. A
lot of folks here give a lot of big talk about their perfect/best
gardens but I haven't seen ANY yet.


This method works best for people who aren't growing bushels
of anything, but it does work

Any quantity can be grown by any method... there is no "best", only
what's best for the individual... there are too many factors to say
any kind of gardening is best.

and is considered a very good organic way to grow beans.

Organic, wtf does organic have to do with it, any gardening method can
be organic... whatever that is... I don't believe there is any such
thing, except in a laboratory clean room.

I also grow tagetes or marigold around most vegetables for insect control.

A very debatable practice... my experience is some types of marigolds
will only keep mosquitoes somewhat at bay... mosquitoes don't harm
crops, so big whoop. I plant some flowers in my garden because they
look nice; I usually have extras that won't fit into my beds, and some
just pop up in an out of the way spot so why disturb them... I leave
the wild flowers, daisys are nice perennials and require no care, not
even watering.

Both methods work. �Your close planting is usually accompanied by
raised beds and more soil preparation and hand weeding. �Googling on
"intensive gardening" or "biodynamics gardening" brings up many
references, and "square foot gardening" is a variant on it. �We used
to use Sheldon's traditional methods and plant spacings and his
recommendations are well suited for it. �Then we built a couple small
raised beds and mostly follow the square foot gardening
guidelines. � � -aem

Square foot gardening was devised for use by people who haven't much
gardening space. The premise is to grow plants upward... I wouldn't
consider bush beans for square foot gardening when I can quadruple my
crop by planting pole beans... then I can plant some low growing crop,
like lettuce, carrots, or herbs at the base of the pole beans. Square
foot gardening works well if certain tenets are adhered to but I think
it's a lot more labor intensive than traditional methods... but it
works well when there's lack of gardening space or if someone just
prefers to have say a small raised bed or two, say in an arid area
whre water is a problem and/or soil is poor... some times people have
handicaps that permit them to work a small raised bed garden when
otherwise they couldn't garden. I have much more space than I can
possibly use so raised beds have no advantage for me... however my
next door neighbor has just as much space but he does both, actually
his house is built into a hill so he does terrace gardening too... my
neighbor is the garlic king here, he has big raised beds chock full of
garlic. At his request I took pictures of him in front of his gardens
with his arms loaded up with fresh pulled garlic, but I'm not going to
post his picture here. But anyone who has a garden I'd be pleased to
see pictures, if you got it post it.

Nancy Young wrote:

Okay, I never grew beans before. Just thought it would be
a fun thing to do this year since I suddenly have a small place
to grow vegetables.

It's been fun. So far; I hope they hang in there (as in not be
eaten) until I can get some beans out of the deal.

I now get where the Jack and his magical beans story came from.
I looked at where I planted them a couple days ago. Maybe
that's them (some teensy green weed). I don't know.

Two hours later, I do not lie, I looked again and see some
weird disturbance in the earth, all these mounds of soils.
Damn, did something dig up my beans??

No. I moved a piece of dirt aside and there it was, a bean
plant! By the next morning they were an inch high. Freaky!!



You know, I'm going to buy some to plant in pots for foliage "house plants",
very cheap and I need to fill in some spaces in my indoor "garden". This
is in addition to the ginger and elephant ears/taro I'll grow from "bulbs" I
bought at the Asian market...

Fastest thing I've ever seen grow are some caladium bulbs I planted during
very hot weather, you could literally watch them grow, almost a foot in a
day...

Also, growing up in a rural area, corn plants did the same thing...

It's good weather for ducks (rain!) - and also for growing plants, all this
heat and humidity...great to see things thrive after such a cold winter.

--
Best
Greg

In article ,
"Nancy Young" wrote:

Okay, I never grew beans before. Just thought it would be
a fun thing to do this year since I suddenly have a small place
to grow vegetables.

It's been fun. So far; I hope they hang in there (as in not be
eaten) until I can get some beans out of the deal.

I now get where the Jack and his magical beans story came from.
I looked at where I planted them a couple days ago. Maybe
that's them (some teensy green weed). I don't know.

Two hours later, I do not lie, I looked again and see some
weird disturbance in the earth, all these mounds of soils.
Damn, did something dig up my beans??

No. I moved a piece of dirt aside and there it was, a bean
plant! By the next morning they were an inch high. Freaky!!

nancy

If, by some chance, you bought pole beans rather than bush beans, make
sure they have something to climb. Now leave them alone in peace, will
ya? Quit pokin'!

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Huffy and Bubbles Do France: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com

On Jun 11, 6:00�pm, Melba's Jammin'
wrote:
In article ,
�"Nancy Young" wrote:





Okay, I never grew beans before. �Just thought it would be
a fun thing to do this year since I suddenly have a small place
to grow vegetables.

It's been fun. �So far; I hope they hang in there (as in not be
eaten) until I can get some beans out of the deal.

I now get where the Jack and his magical beans story came from.
I looked at where I planted them a couple days ago. �Maybe
that's them (some teensy green weed). �I don't know.

Two hours later, I do not lie, I looked again and see some
weird disturbance in the earth, all these mounds of soils.
Damn, did something dig up my beans??

No. �I moved a piece of dirt aside and there it was, a bean
plant! �By the next morning they were an inch high. �Freaky!!

nancy � �

If, by some chance, you bought pole beans rather than bush beans, make sure they have something to climb. �

Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell the blood of a Minisotan!