Kenneth wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:34:28 -0700, Serene Vannoy
wrote:

Janet Wilder wrote:
Kenneth wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:20:15 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

French bread has to be kneaded hard and long for it to have the right
crumb and crust.
Hi again,

There are (at very least) many dozens of "French bread" but
I don't know of any that have to be kneaded at all.

What characteristics do you believe would be lacking if we
were to develop the dough without kneading?

Texture, mostly.


The texture on my no-knead bread is *wonderful*

Serene, datapointing

Hi Serene,

I am certainly not surprised...

It does seem that many folks knead for little reason other
than having done it before.

Of course, kneading does change the structure of the crumb,
but folks who have not tried other methods often do not know
of the differences it makes.

All the best,

I may just be one of those folks, Kenneth.

I do remember giving my challah recipe to a friend. She complained that
hers didn't taste like mine. I asked her if she kneaded it for a full 5
minutes and she admitted that she was kneading it in the Cuisinart.

With all due respect to your methods, what works for me, works for me
and after making the same recipe for more years than I care to admit I'm
old, I'll stick with mine.



--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

On Sat, 31 May 2008 20:49:42 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

I do remember giving my challah recipe to a friend. She complained that
hers didn't taste like mine. I asked her if she kneaded it for a full 5
minutes and she admitted that she was kneading it in the Cuisinart.

With all due respect to your methods, what works for me, works for me
and after making the same recipe for more years than I care to admit I'm
old, I'll stick with mine.


Hi Janet,

I wrote nothing intended to convince you to change anything
in you own methods.

If something works for you, of course it makes sense to keep
doing it. (Though, in truth, that makes more sense provided
that you have also tried other methods, and prefer the
results of your initial method.)

My point was that you are suggesting to others that there is
some great significance to "sufficient" kneading, and, in my
opinion, (and based upon lots of experience) that is simply
not true.

There may be differences in taste, but those, I would
suggest, argue for the no-knead methods because they
typically slow down the fermentation, and with that, improve
flavors.

The more obvious difference is in the texture of the crumb.

Generally speaking, the more the kneading, the finer the
crumb, that is, the smaller the holes.

With no kneading, the crumb will typically be more coarse,
that is, will have bigger holes.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" wrote in message
...

Hi Janet,

I wrote nothing intended to convince you to change anything
in you own methods.

If something works for you, of course it makes sense to keep
doing it. (Though, in truth, that makes more sense provided
that you have also tried other methods, and prefer the
results of your initial method.)

My point was that you are suggesting to others that there is
some great significance to "sufficient" kneading, and, in my
opinion, (and based upon lots of experience) that is simply
not true.

There may be differences in taste, but those, I would
suggest, argue for the no-knead methods because they
typically slow down the fermentation, and with that, improve
flavors.

The more obvious difference is in the texture of the crumb.

Generally speaking, the more the kneading, the finer the
crumb, that is, the smaller the holes.

With no kneading, the crumb will typically be more coarse,
that is, will have bigger holes.

All the best,
--
Kenneth


First you say there is no significant difference to kneading sufficiently
and not kneading sufficiently and then you turn around and admit the crumb
is significantly different.

If you don't want big holes in your bread you have to knead sufficiently.

Ms P

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 09:29:59 -0500, "Ms P"
wrote:


"Kenneth" wrote in message
.. .

Hi Janet,

I wrote nothing intended to convince you to change anything
in you own methods.

If something works for you, of course it makes sense to keep
doing it. (Though, in truth, that makes more sense provided
that you have also tried other methods, and prefer the
results of your initial method.)

My point was that you are suggesting to others that there is
some great significance to "sufficient" kneading, and, in my
opinion, (and based upon lots of experience) that is simply
not true.

There may be differences in taste, but those, I would
suggest, argue for the no-knead methods because they
typically slow down the fermentation, and with that, improve
flavors.

The more obvious difference is in the texture of the crumb.

Generally speaking, the more the kneading, the finer the
crumb, that is, the smaller the holes.

With no kneading, the crumb will typically be more coarse,
that is, will have bigger holes.

All the best,
--
Kenneth


First you say there is no significant difference to kneading sufficiently
and not kneading sufficiently and then you turn around and admit the crumb
is significantly different.

If you don't want big holes in your bread you have to knead sufficiently.

Ms P

Howdy,

Indeed, I left out a word, in error...

I should have said that there is no significant difference
in "taste" when kneading or not.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."