Kenneth wrote:
On Wed, 28 May 2008 06:06:11 -0700 (PDT), mkr5000
wrote:

I've always kneaded dough by hand but really don't ever do it enough.

Howdy,

Could you say something more about what you mean by
"enough?"

I ask because bread doughs actually don't have to be kneaded
at all.

Some don't, that's true. Some do require kneading to do that chemical
thing with the gluten. Sorry I fell asleep during the Alton Brown show
and can't remember what it is supposed to do to the gluten. g


--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

On Thu, 29 May 2008 17:46:49 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

Some don't, that's true. Some do require kneading to do that chemical
thing with the gluten. Sorry I fell asleep during the Alton Brown show
and can't remember what it is supposed to do to the gluten. g


Hi Janet,

I posted somewhere else in this thread that there are three
ways of increasing the length of the gluten strands.
Kneading is one way, the there are two others.

I would be interested in knowing what sorts of bread you
think "require" kneading.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 17:46:49 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

Some don't, that's true. Some do require kneading to do that chemical
thing with the gluten. Sorry I fell asleep during the Alton Brown show
and can't remember what it is supposed to do to the gluten. g


Hi Janet,

I posted somewhere else in this thread that there are three
ways of increasing the length of the gluten strands.
Kneading is one way, the there are two others.

I would be interested in knowing what sorts of bread you
think "require" kneading.

All the best,

My challah does. French bread has to be kneaded hard and long for it to
have the right crumb and crust. I know that from experience (sigh). I
have tried one or two recipes for bread that got left in the fridge over
night. It was good, but the texture was not the same as kneaded bread. I
think that is what I didn't like about the bread machine. The texture
was missing something. Maybe the kneading does something to the texture?

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:20:15 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

French bread has to be kneaded hard and long for it to
have the right crumb and crust.

Hi again,

There are (at very least) many dozens of "French bread" but
I don't know of any that have to be kneaded at all.

What characteristics do you believe would be lacking if we
were to develop the dough without kneading?

Sincere thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

theChas wrote:
"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...
mkr5000 wrote:
I've always kneaded dough by hand but really don't ever do it enough.
I've never owned a Kitchenaid mixer or a bread machine and I don't see
how that dough hook attachment can actually knead dough.
But then, I've never seen one in action.
Does it really work? How about bread machines? And how do they
compare?
What are my options for "automatic" dough kneading?
*********************
I discovered that my KitchenAid mixer (has the crank to elevate the
bowl) kneads best when I allow the bowl to be about 1" from the top
of where the crank holds it. I have a little block of wood to hold
the bowl in that position. Then it cleans the entire bowl, and the
dough doesn't climb the hook. The kneading action is also good.
Otherwise, the dough ball just climbs the hook and spins.
. . . . .With a tilt head mixer, maybe one could fashion a thin wedge
to hold the mixer head up a little.
*********************

There are screw adjustment directions in your manual so that the hook does
reach the bottom of the bowl. However, even when you think the dough is
just rotating on the hook, if you watch, you will see the dough go up and
then back down. Also, check your flour measurements for the recipe. Sounds
like your dough is too dry.
Janet

On May 28, 9:06*am, mkr5000 wrote:
I've always kneaded dough by hand but really don't ever do it enough.

I've never owned a Kitchenaid mixer or a bread machine and I don't see
how that dough hook attachment can actually knead dough.

But then, I've never seen one in action.

I've used a large Hobart mixer with a dough hook ( I think the recipe
made about 20 loaves of bread) and the dough hook worked beautifully.
I used to make bread on slow days so I'd toss the ingredients into the
mixing bowl, mix well and then just cover the bowl with a damp
cloth. When the dough had risen I'd turn on the machine for a momment
or so, and voilà, bread ready to go in to the pans.

Why it works I have no idea. It must have been a very demented person
who thought up the shape of a dough hook but they work just fine.

If I ever buy a home-sized mixer I'd definately want one with a dough
hook.

I've never had a loaf of bread from a breadmaker that was as good as
what I'd make by hand or with the Hobart.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

Kenneth wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:20:15 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

French bread has to be kneaded hard and long for it to
have the right crumb and crust.

Hi again,

There are (at very least) many dozens of "French bread" but
I don't know of any that have to be kneaded at all.

What characteristics do you believe would be lacking if we
were to develop the dough without kneading?


Texture, mostly.


--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...
mkr5000 wrote:
I've always kneaded dough by hand but really don't ever do it enough.
I've never owned a Kitchenaid mixer or a bread machine and I don't see
how that dough hook attachment can actually knead dough.
But then, I've never seen one in action.
Does it really work? How about bread machines? And how do they
compare?
What are my options for "automatic" dough kneading?
*********************
I discovered that my KitchenAid mixer (it has the crank to elevate the bowl)
kneads best when I allow the bowl to be about 1" down from the top of where
the
crank holds it normally. I have a little block of wood to hold the bowl in
that
position. Then it cleans the entire bowl, and the dough doesn't climb the
hook. The kneading action is then very good. Otherwise, the dough ball
just
climbs the hook and spins.
.. . . . .With a tilt head mixer, maybe one could fashion a thin wedge to
hold the mixer head up a little.
*********************


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Fri, 30 May 2008 09:45:17 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

What characteristics do you believe would be lacking if we
were to develop the dough without kneading?


Texture, mostly.

Hi Janet,

I am really curious about this...

How do you think the "texture" would change were you to make
the same bread with no kneading?

Thanks, as before,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Janet Bostwick" wrote in message
m...
theChas wrote:
"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...
mkr5000 wrote:
I've always kneaded dough by hand but really don't ever do it enough.
I've never owned a Kitchenaid mixer or a bread machine and I don't see
how that dough hook attachment can actually knead dough.
But then, I've never seen one in action.
Does it really work? How about bread machines? And how do they
compare?
What are my options for "automatic" dough kneading?
*********************
I discovered that my KitchenAid mixer (has the crank to elevate the
bowl) kneads best when I allow the bowl to be about 1" from the top
of where the crank holds it. I have a little block of wood to hold
the bowl in that position. Then it cleans the entire bowl, and the
dough doesn't climb the hook. The kneading action is also good.
Otherwise, the dough ball just climbs the hook and spins.
. . . . .With a tilt head mixer, maybe one could fashion a thin wedge
to hold the mixer head up a little.
*********************

There are screw adjustment directions in your manual so that the hook does
reach the bottom of the bowl. However, even when you think the dough is
just rotating on the hook, if you watch, you will see the dough go up and
then back down. Also, check your flour measurements for the recipe.
Sounds like your dough is too dry.
Janet

I agree with Janet, it sounds like your dough is too dry. When the dough is
just right in the KA it climbs the hook but it also flops over and forms two
"ears." Try adding just a tablespoon or two of water.

Ms P

snip
There are screw adjustment directions in your manual so that the hook
does reach the bottom of the bowl. However, even when you think the
dough is just rotating on the hook, if you watch, you will see the dough
go up and then back down. Also, check your flour measurements for the
recipe. Sounds like your dough is too dry.
Janet

I agree with Janet, it sounds like your dough is too dry. When the dough
is just right in the KA it climbs the hook but it also flops over and
forms two "ears." Try adding just a tablespoon or two of water.

Ms P
***********
Thanks, I have not been that impressed with my bread... I don't like the
texture and that drynessk could be the problem.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

theChas wrote:
snip
There are screw adjustment directions in your manual so that the hook
does reach the bottom of the bowl. However, even when you think the
dough is just rotating on the hook, if you watch, you will see the dough
go up and then back down. Also, check your flour measurements for the
recipe. Sounds like your dough is too dry.
Janet
I agree with Janet, it sounds like your dough is too dry. When the dough
is just right in the KA it climbs the hook but it also flops over and
forms two "ears." Try adding just a tablespoon or two of water.

Ms P
***********
Thanks, I have not been that impressed with my bread... I don't like the
texture and that dryness could be the problem.


That's just one more reason I like to knead by hand. I can feel if the
bread is too dry or too wet. I don't think I could tell if dough hooks
were doing the kneading for me.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Janet Wilder wrote:
Kenneth wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:20:15 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

French bread has to be kneaded hard and long for it to have the right
crumb and crust.

Hi again,

There are (at very least) many dozens of "French bread" but
I don't know of any that have to be kneaded at all.

What characteristics do you believe would be lacking if we
were to develop the dough without kneading?


Texture, mostly.



The texture on my no-knead bread is *wonderful*

Serene, datapointing

On Fri, 30 May 2008 23:29:10 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

That's just one more reason I like to knead by hand. I can feel if the
bread is too dry or too wet. I don't think I could tell if dough hooks
were doing the kneading for me.

Good grief, Janet.... stop the machine and touch it every now and
then!

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smile first

On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:34:28 -0700, Serene Vannoy
wrote:

Janet Wilder wrote:
Kenneth wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:20:15 -0500, Janet Wilder
wrote:

French bread has to be kneaded hard and long for it to have the right
crumb and crust.

Hi again,

There are (at very least) many dozens of "French bread" but
I don't know of any that have to be kneaded at all.

What characteristics do you believe would be lacking if we
were to develop the dough without kneading?


Texture, mostly.



The texture on my no-knead bread is *wonderful*

Serene, datapointing

Hi Serene,

I am certainly not surprised...

It does seem that many folks knead for little reason other
than having done it before.

Of course, kneading does change the structure of the crumb,
but folks who have not tried other methods often do not know
of the differences it makes.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."