James Silverton wrote:

I like wienerschnitzel but I'm a little puzzled about it being
a little more than a breaded veal cutlet. I know the bread
crumbs are stuck on with beaten egg but that's a fairly normal
practice in breading. What actually have I missed? I know that
parmesan is sometimes combined with the crumbs.

Forget the parmesan.

Traditional Wiener Schnitzel is made with particular cuts from the
inside hind leg, or from the loin, namely Fricandeau (trimmed
silverside/top round) or Nuß (sirloin tip). The cuts are butterflied,
pounded lightly until they are about 4 mm thick, salted, rolled in
flour, then dipped in egg, then rolled in breadcrumbs. The breadcrumbs
are not supposed to be pressed into the flesh. Then the schitzel(s) are
fried in a lot of hot lard or oil, so that they are swimming in it. (In
fact, they can as well be deep-fried.) The breading is supposed to puff
up like a soufflé, so that the end result is breading hardly adhering to
the meat at all. Traditionally, Wiener Schitzel is supposed to be servd
with a garnish consisting of a slice of lemon, upon which a rolled
anchovy, into which centre a few capers have been placed (this custom is
disappearing and usually just the lemon is served). All of this makes
Wiener Schnitzel a bit different from just any breaded veal cutlet,
costoletta alla milanese not excluded.

Here is a correct recipe:
http://www.kochecke.com/cooking-recipe-wiener-schnitzel.html.

And here is how Kurt Gutenbrunner makes it:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F06E4D71438F935A25752C0A9649C8B 63.

Victor

Michael Kuettner wrote:
"James Silverton" schrieb :
"Michael Kuettner" wrote :
"ravenlynne" schrieb :
Michael Kuettner wrote:
I'm an other Australian (from Up Over), too.
If you need a refresher on your ancestral dishes, just ask !

Well, I'm a mutt actually.
LOL ! You just defined an Austrian.

I'm 1/4 native american of some sort that is unidentified (My maternal
grandfather whole full blooded something but ran off and died before I could
find out.) the rest is an irish-scottish-austrian mix.

Apart from the Native Merkin, all the rest is in an Austrian.
(The Anglo-Irish mission in the 7th. century left its traces ;-)).

I'm a good American: an immigrant with all 4 racial strains of the British
Isles if my multiple great grandmothers told the truth! My kids have German,
French and Russian ancestry too on a similar basis and may be approaching the
Northern-European-American standard mix. I guess all that is missing from the
European blend is Italian, AFAIK.

Nullo problemo ! Just change your name to "Jim Silvertonio". ;-)

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner




Or Giacomo Silvertonio...

--
-Gina in Italy

http://www.myspace.com/ravenlynne1975
I'm a blogger: http://ravenwolflodge.blogspot.com

"James Silverton" schrieb :

snip
I do thump cutlets to thin them but I'd hardly thought that made
Wienerschnitzel special. Most of the rest is pretty standard,

Yes. We invented that standard.

even Japanese Tonkatsu goes the same route. Tonkatsu is, strictly speaking,
pork and deep fried but have you heard of Chikin Katsu (it's for real!)?

Do you know how many million Japanese tourists went to Austria
in the last decades ?
Don't you wonder why Panko is a rather recent thing ?
I like seeing how the Other Australia still influences cuisine
in faraway countries ...

Btw, Chikin Katsu is shit. You don't pound a chickenbreast flat.
You fry it slower at lower heat.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

On Apr 4, 12:56*pm, "Michael Kuettner" wrote:
"James Silverton" schrieb :

snip

I do thump cutlets to thin them but I'd hardly thought that made
Wienerschnitzel special. Most of the rest is pretty standard,

Yes. We invented that standard.

even Japanese Tonkatsu goes the same route. Tonkatsu is, strictly speaking,
pork and deep fried but have you heard of Chikin Katsu (it's for real!)?

Do you know how many million Japanese tourists went to Austria
in the last decades ?

Some (including you?) may think you're just joking, but it's
interesting to note that there's a whole branch of Japanese food
called "yoshoku" (I may not have that exactly right) that consists of
adaptations of western dishes. Breaded cutlets are definitely part of
that, though you have to go back further than the last decades. My
favorite yoshoku dish, "omu rice," is an omelet wrapped around some
fried rice and sauced with ketchup. -aem

"aem" schrieb :
On Apr 4, 12:56 pm, "Michael Kuettner" wrote:
"James Silverton" schrieb :

snip

I do thump cutlets to thin them but I'd hardly thought that made
Wienerschnitzel special. Most of the rest is pretty standard,

Yes. We invented that standard.

even Japanese Tonkatsu goes the same route. Tonkatsu is, strictly speaking,
pork and deep fried but have you heard of Chikin Katsu (it's for real!)?

Do you know how many million Japanese tourists went to Austria
in the last decades ?

Some (including you?) may think you're just joking, but it's
interesting to note that there's a whole branch of Japanese food
called "yoshoku" (I may not have that exactly right) that consists of
adaptations of western dishes. Breaded cutlets are definitely part of
that, though you have to go back further than the last decades. My
favorite yoshoku dish, "omu rice," is an omelet wrapped around some
fried rice and sauced with ketchup. -aem
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not joking.
The last decades was meant in the context of Panko, which isn't
that old. The demand for this product seems to have risen in
the last decades.
The "Wienerschnitzel" was invented in the 1880ies, btw.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Michael wrote on Sat, 5 Apr 2008 14:50:05 +0200:


MK "aem" schrieb :
MK On Apr 4, 12:56 pm, "Michael Kuettner" wrote:
?? "James Silverton" schrieb :
??
?? snip
??
?? I do thump cutlets to thin them but I'd hardly thought
?? that made Wienerschnitzel special. Most of the rest is
?? pretty standard,
??
?? Yes. We invented that standard.
??
?? even Japanese Tonkatsu goes the same route. Tonkatsu is,
?? strictly speaking, pork and deep fried but have you heard
?? of Chikin Katsu (it's for real!)?
??
?? Do you know how many million Japanese tourists went to
?? Austria in the last decades ?

MK Some (including you?) may think you're just joking, but
MK it's interesting to note that there's a whole branch of
MK Japanese food called "yoshoku" (I may not have that exactly
MK right) that consists of adaptations of western dishes.
MK Breaded cutlets are definitely part of that, though you
MK have to go back further than the last decades. My favorite
MK yoshoku dish, "omu rice," is an omelet wrapped around some
MK fried rice and sauced with ketchup. -aem
MK -----------------------------------------------------------
MK I'm not joking.
MK The last decades was meant in the context of Panko, which
MK isn't that old. The demand for this product seems to have
MK risen in the last decades.
MK The "Wienerschnitzel" was invented in the 1880ies, btw.

I can't see what is accomplished by an argument about priority
in invention. Wienerschnitzel is a pretty obvious idea anyway;
did it even need inventing? It's sort of a chicken-fried cutlet
and "chicken-frying" of foods is common in the American South.
The Japanese have been adapting and appreciating European food
since Western traders introduced it in the 17th century. The
Japanese food that most people know, "tempura", was learned from
Portuguese cooking methods. Most people know that Panko is
derived from the Portuguese word for bread but it's an
improvement over standard breadcrumbs. Anyway, a standard
Japanese word for bread is "pan". "Korokke" is derived from
"croquette", "sosu" is "sauce" and the "katsu" part of tonkatsu
is derived from "cutlet". Can you guess what is "pankeki" or
"ramu" or "paseri" or "raimu"? One clue for guessing is that
Japanese find it difficult to distinguish between "R" and "L".


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" schrieb :
Michael wrote on Sat, 5 Apr 2008 14:50:05 +0200:
snip
MK The "Wienerschnitzel" was invented in the 1880ies, btw.

I can't see what is accomplished by an argument about priority in invention.
Wienerschnitzel is a pretty obvious idea anyway; did it even need inventing?

It's not an argument; it's a historical fact.
Since this group is about cooking, maybe some people here might
be interested in the history of some dishes.
A little more information :
The Wienerschnitzel was derived from the cotoletta Milanese;
which is "breaded" with a mixture of beaten egg and parmesan.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Michael Kuettner wrote:

The Wienerschnitzel was derived from the cotoletta Milanese;
which is "breaded" with a mixture of beaten egg and parmesan.

Here is a good "Wiener Schnitzel" story, in German:
http://www.textetage.com/fileadmin/verena/wiener.pdf.

Victor

"Victor Sack" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
.. .
Michael Kuettner wrote:

The Wienerschnitzel was derived from the cotoletta Milanese;
which is "breaded" with a mixture of beaten egg and parmesan.

Here is a good "Wiener Schnitzel" story, in German:
http://www.textetage.com/fileadmin/verena/wiener.pdf.

Thanks for the mix of legends and facts ;-)

Some remarks :
1) The Schnitzelsemmel uses pork for the Schnitzel.
2) Wienerschnitzel is called "Breslfetz'n" in Vienna.
3) The largest Schnitzels are to be had in Maria-Hilfr-Strasse.
4) Maybe the best overall Schnitzel are made in the Gösser Bierklini9k.

3) and 4) might have changed; I've been in Vienna 7 years ago ...

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

PS : Brathendl (roasted chicken) is called Gummiadler.

For an essay on the importance of ramen noodles in Sino-Japanese
relations, check out this essay by Japanese historian Barak Kushner.
Here's an excerpt:

"Ramen, the ubiquitous Asian noodle soup, has come to symbolize Japan.
Japanese are so devoted to the noodle soup that rock groups have even
put lyrics to music to pay homage to ramen. Some of the titles
dedicated to noodles a Ramen Heaven, Ramen Blues, Ramen Tears, I
wanna eat Ramen, Ramen Power, and The Ramen Rap, to cite just a few.
Japan may be the only nation that sings praise to noodle soup. Songs
about ramen have even become theme songs for television shows,
including this popular, if tongue-in-cheek number, entitled, Chicken
and Egg Ramen.

....
Most foreigners, and even many Japanese, believe that ramen has deep
historical roots in Japan. The ironic twist is that the noodle's
origins are actually Chinese."

(for the full article: http://aboutjapan.japansociety.org/c...ational_myths).
More resources about Japan can be found at Japan Society's education
website: http://aboutjapan.japansociety.org/.

"margaret suran" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Victor Sack wrote:
Michael Kuettner wrote:

The Wienerschnitzel was derived from the cotoletta Milanese;
which is "breaded" with a mixture of beaten egg and parmesan.

Here is a good "Wiener Schnitzel" story, in German:
http://www.textetage.com/fileadmin/verena/wiener.pdf.

Victor

Nice story, but I have never heard someone being called a "Semmel" or anything
concerning a Semmel as an insult.

A mild insult for a blonde, usually (semmelblond).

As for the owner of a restaurant charging for the Semmeln the diners consume,
that was done in every restaurant to which I went as a child. When it came to
pay the bill, the waiter would ask how many Semmeln had been consumed and
added a few Groschen for each.

That's still the same.

Those Semmeln were wonderful, fresh and crunchy and as far as I was concerned,
the only food worth eating in a restaurant. I hated to eat out and would find
any kind of excuse not to have to go along.

How things have changed! Are there really Fast Food Schnitzel restaurants in
Vienna now?

No; the Schnitzelsemmel is sold at the Würstlstand.

Do "Die Drei Husaren" still exist?

That one ?
http://www.tourist-net.co.at/lokale/DreiHusaren/

Ja, die Nostalgie....

Thank you, Bubba.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

margaret suran wrote:

How things have changed! Are there really Fast Food Schnitzel
restaurants in Vienna now?

Yes, there is the Schnitzelhaus chain, for example. See
http://www.schnitzelhaus.at.

Do "Die Drei Husaren" still exist?

Yes, see http://www.drei-husaren.at/.

I've had dinner there once in the late 80s or early 90s. By that time,
the restaurant was already overrated and overpriced. The best meal we
had during that Vienna visit was the lunch at Steiereck, which was just
starting to become famous. The food was great and the service smiling
and relaxed. And, just like in olden times, there was even a piccolo, a
cute little boy of perhaps nine or ten years, of a serious mien, dressed
in formal attire and dispatching his duties very efficiently. He was
probably the son of the house. Another very good meal we had was at
Korso. The food at the restaurant at Hotel Imperial was generally
unremarkable, but their Torte was better than the Sacher one.

Bubba

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 23:57:52 +0200, (Victor Sack)
wrote:

margaret suran wrote:

How things have changed! Are there really Fast Food Schnitzel
restaurants in Vienna now?

Yes, there is the Schnitzelhaus chain, for example. See
http://www.schnitzelhaus.at.

Do "Die Drei Husaren" still exist?

Yes, see http://www.drei-husaren.at/.

I've had dinner there once in the late 80s or early 90s. By that time,
the restaurant was already overrated and overpriced. The best meal we
had during that Vienna visit was the lunch at Steiereck, which was just
starting to become famous. The food was great and the service smiling
and relaxed. And, just like in olden times, there was even a piccolo, a
cute little boy of perhaps nine or ten years, of a serious mien, dressed
in formal attire and dispatching his duties very efficiently.

o.k., a brief run through google and the dictionary didn't help me
with the term 'piccolo' as used here. could you elucidate?

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" schrieb :

o.k., a brief run through google and the dictionary didn't help me
with the term 'piccolo' as used here. could you elucidate?


The term means an apprentice in gastronomy and hostelry.
Apprentice waiter or page.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

"margaret suran" schrieb :

snip
I did not know about "Wienerschnitzel" until I lived in New York. We called it
Paniertes Schnitzel.

There's a law in Austria. If you put "Wienerschnitzel" on the menu,
it has to be veal. Otherwise, you have to write "Wienerschnitzel
vom Schwein".

There had been a restaurant in Vienna, Neugroeschl, with Jewish owners, who
fled to the USA and opened a restaurant by the same name here. Of course, as
soon as we could afford it we went to eat there and we saw Wienerschnitzel on
the menu and had to ask what it was. I tried to Google the name Neugroeschl,
but could not find anything in New York or in Vienna.

Is that the Neugröschl who was immortalized by Friedrich Torberg in his
book "Die Tante Jolesch" ?
The one who bodily threw out guests who argued or disagreed with him ?

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner