sf wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:35:00 -0000, wrote:

Are you using a bread flour? You need a good bread flour not all
purpose flour to make pizza dough.


BS: You can make gread pizza dough AND bread with regular all purpose
flour.


Exactly. Tip from my local pizza joint: Slower rising. A lot slower. Forget
about getting home from work at 5:00, starting the dough from scratch, and
thinking you're going to have pizza on the table at 6:30. The owner said
high gluten flour would help, but not absolutely necessary.

On Sep 20, 12:30 am, sf wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:35:00 -0000, wrote:
Are you using a bread flour? You need a good bread flour not all
purpose flour to make pizza dough.

BS: You can make gread pizza dough AND bread with regular all purpose
flour.

If you like Wonder bread. I want bread that resists being eaten.
Do you also think that you can make "gread" cakes with bread flour?


--Bryan

"Bobo Bonobo®" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 20, 12:30 am, sf wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:35:00 -0000, wrote:
Are you using a bread flour? You need a good bread flour not all
purpose flour to make pizza dough.

BS: You can make gread pizza dough AND bread with regular all purpose
flour.

If you like Wonder bread. I want bread that resists being eaten.
Do you also think that you can make "gread" cakes with bread flour?


--Bryan


You can make great pizza with all purpose flour, but you need to slow down
the rising process quite a bit. Look for recipes which describe this. If the
whole process is done in under two hours, you have the wrong recipe.

"Giusi" wrote in message
...

Pizza dough consists of flour, water, yeast, salt and olive oil. Period.


Reinhart (American Pie) in his Roman Pizza dough doesn't use olive oil.
In his other two formulas for Italian pizza doughs in that book, he does use
olive oil.

I would say that any pizza dough could forego the olive oil. However, when
I do not put oo in the dough, I make up for the lack of it using it on top
:-)
Dee Dee

On Sep 20, 8:55 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Bobo Bonobo®" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Sep 20, 12:30 am, sf wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:35:00 -0000, wrote:
Are you using a bread flour? You need a good bread flour not all
purpose flour to make pizza dough.

BS: You can make gread pizza dough AND bread with regular all purpose
flour.

If you like Wonder bread. I want bread that resists being eaten.
Do you also think that you can make "gread" cakes with bread flour?

--Bryan

You can make great pizza with all purpose flour, but you need to slow down
the rising process quite a bit. Look for recipes which describe this. If the
whole process is done in under two hours, you have the wrong recipe.

It's just not the right texture. Just like so many so-called bagels
out there, that are rally more like bagel-shaped rolls. I have no
doubt that you can make good tasting crust, but not that NY "al dente"
crust.

--Bryan

"Bobo Bonobo®" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 20, 8:55 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Bobo Bonobo®" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Sep 20, 12:30 am, sf wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:35:00 -0000, wrote:
Are you using a bread flour? You need a good bread flour not all
purpose flour to make pizza dough.

BS: You can make gread pizza dough AND bread with regular all purpose
flour.

If you like Wonder bread. I want bread that resists being eaten.
Do you also think that you can make "gread" cakes with bread flour?

--Bryan

You can make great pizza with all purpose flour, but you need to slow down
the rising process quite a bit. Look for recipes which describe this. If
the
whole process is done in under two hours, you have the wrong recipe.

It's just not the right texture. Just like so many so-called bagels
out there, that are rally more like bagel-shaped rolls. I have no
doubt that you can make good tasting crust, but not that NY "al dente"
crust.

--Bryan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OK. I must be hallucinating, even though I lived in Queens & Long Island for
28 years, I know what serious pizza should be like, and what I'm making at
home is just as good (after years of trying).

Based on your logic, anything you haven't experienced does not exist.

"Bobo Bonobo®" ha scritto nel messaggio
ups.com...

It's just not the right texture. Just like so many so-called bagels
out there, that are rally more like bagel-shaped rolls. I have no
doubt that you can make good tasting crust, but not that NY "al dente"
crust.

--Bryan
-

We actually don't have anything called bread flour here in Italy, but soft
wheat flour left to rise cool for 12 hours sure does get elastic. Snappy,
even.
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:59:15 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

No, Sheldon. What I stated is a fact, and no debate is possible. Save
your
breath. Any cook who adds MSG deserves to be waterboarded.

That's a pretty stupid statement, even if it is directed as
Sheldon. MSG is fine when used at the right time and place.
Just like salt.

-sw

Nah. It's a cob job in the world of food.

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:13:16 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message

That's a pretty stupid statement, even if it is directed as
Sheldon. MSG is fine when used at the right time and place.
Just like salt.

Nah. It's a cob job in the world of food.

Just like salt and pepper, right?

-sw


I'll agree when you can show me an ongoing debate about people feeling ill
from eating pepper.

MSG does nothing but make your mouth water.

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:37:38 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:13:16 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message

That's a pretty stupid statement, even if it is directed as
Sheldon. MSG is fine when used at the right time and place.
Just like salt.

Nah. It's a cob job in the world of food.

Just like salt and pepper, right?

I'll agree when you can show me an ongoing debate about people feeling
ill
from eating pepper.

sigh That's too easy:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...&btnG=S earch
Almost as many hits as MSG.

I notice you didn't want to bring up salt - which is supposedly
killing people VIA hypertension.

Not to mention fat, another crucial flavoring that is killing
people.

So what's different about MSG, salt, fat, and pepper? MSG isn't
killing people like salt - that I've heard of, at least.

-sw

How do you explain the fact that good cooks can make fabulous food without
adding MSG?

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:03:55 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message
...

How do you explain the fact that good cooks can make fabulous food
without
adding MSG?

How do you explain that good cooks can make food even better by
using MSG? (Matter of fact - they probably *are* already using
MSG in some form or another). How do you explain that MSG is
present in the majority of foods you buy at the supermarket, yet
people don't seem to get sick from them?

-sw


Present in the majority of foods. Do you mean it was added as an ingredient,
or are we returning to the naturally occurring theme again?

Added

or

Naturally occurring?

Steve Wertz wrote:
How do you explain that MSG is
present in the majority of foods you buy at the supermarket, yet
people don't seem to get sick from them?


Majority of foods? I'm interested in more info.
I'm guessing we're eliminating the fresh produce section, the meat
section and the dairy section (or are we?) to start and sticking to the
more processed foods. MSG in bread, candy, canned vegetables, cereals,
cheese, chips, cookies, crackers, frozen meals, ice cream, raisins?
Really? What's it listed as?


--Lia

Steve Wertz wrote:

MSG/Glutamates are present in many foods (not so much the sweets
mentioned above). Practically all animal products (especially
hard cheeses), many veggies, and it's added to almost all
processed (non-sweet) foods in some form or another.

It used to be (and still is) over-used by careless cooks and is
probably why it has gained such a bad reputation. When used
properly and in careful moderation, there is no problem using it
as has been shown in processed foods - which people who claim to
be allergic to it don't seem to react to.

-sw (who's not trying to get into yet another MSG argument, just
trying to educate)


Oh, I know we've been down this road before. I'm not trying to get into
an argument either. I'm still trying to figure out what it is that I do
react to. It's present in some Chinese restaurant food and in Knorr's
commercial base mixes. The symptoms are so obvious. I'd love to know
what causes them. I'm fine with hard cheeses, meats, and while I prefer
to eat foods from scratch, when I have eaten the vast number of prepared
canned foods, candies, cookies, and crackers, I'm fine with them.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:
Steve Wertz wrote:
How do you explain that MSG is
present in the majority of foods you buy at the supermarket, yet
people don't seem to get sick from them?

Majority of foods? I'm interested in more info.
I'm guessing we're eliminating the fresh produce section, the meat
section and the dairy section (or are we?) to start and sticking to the
more processed foods. MSG in bread, candy, canned vegetables, cereals,
cheese, chips, cookies, crackers, frozen meals, ice cream, raisins?
Really? What's it listed as?

MSG is naturally present in most all foods so it doesn't need to be
listed, essentially only some starchy vegetables contain so little MSG
so as to be considered nonexistant, MSG is even naturally in breast
milk. Salt (NACL ) is present in all foods, ALL... there are no
exceptions, there are no foods that contain no naturally occuring
salt, none! Whenever certain foods are labeled low salt it's because
there is no *added* salt. When you buy a beef steak the label doesn't
list any ingredients except beef steak, yet beef steak contains many
naturally occuing elements, including natually occuring salt at the
same level as in all mammal tissue (0.9 pct), and MSG too. On the
other hand cured foods contain *added* nitrates and nitrites in far
greater quantity than foods containing MSG whether naturally or
added. You are far more likely to develop health issues from a ham
sandwich, bacon adn eggs, sausages, adn otehr cured foods than from
the the pinch of MSG in as packet of ramen seasoning... that packet is
mostly salt... consume a whole bag of potato chips in one sittingf you
will feel the same symptoms associated with Chinese Restaurnt Syndrome
( a myth), those symtoms occur do the Chinese cooks having a heavy
hand with plain table salt... eat a pound of cheese you'll feel ill
too, from the salt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

Anything can kill you if you ingest too much, even plain water.

Some dishes really benefit from a small amount of MSG... yesterday I
made a full 8qt pot of very thick beef barley soup with 'shrooms, used
the entire pound of barley... added four large tomatoes from my garden
too... but even though beef, tomato, and shrooms contain substantial
MSG naturally it still needed more, I added a 1/4 tsp, made a big
difference, and I had been adding salt, but I didn't want salt soup,
then I may as well buy Campbells.


Sheldon

Sheldon wrote:
On the
other hand cured foods contain *added* nitrates and nitrites in far
greater quantity than foods containing MSG whether naturally or
added. You are far more likely to develop health issues from a ham
sandwich, bacon adn eggs, sausages, adn otehr cured foods than from
the the pinch of MSG in as packet of ramen seasoning... that packet is
mostly salt... consume a whole bag of potato chips in one sittingf you
will feel the same symptoms associated with Chinese Restaurnt Syndrome
( a myth), those symtoms occur do the Chinese cooks having a heavy
hand with plain table salt... eat a pound of cheese you'll feel ill
too, from the salt.
...
Some dishes really benefit from a small amount of MSG... yesterday I
made a full 8qt pot of very thick beef barley soup with 'shrooms, used
the entire pound of barley... added four large tomatoes from my garden
too... but even though beef, tomato, and shrooms contain substantial
MSG naturally it still needed more, I added a 1/4 tsp, made a big
difference, and I had been adding salt, but I didn't want salt soup,
then I may as well buy Campbells.


See, this is where the mystery comes in. I have no trouble with salt.
I don't have high blood pressure, like the taste, add it in my own
cooking, and sometimes eat a bunch of potato chips at one sitting. I
DON'T get symptoms from that. The only thing too much salt does to me
is make me thirsty so I drink water until I'm no longer thirsty. I like
beef, tomato sauce, and mushrooms too, eat them all the time, don't get
symptoms. I don't like cured foods like bacon and ham as much, but when
I do eat them, no symptoms.


Some Chinese restaurant food and Knorr's base mixes give me a nasty
headache at the temples, a feeling of malaise, and the aggravation of a
soft tissue damage injury which is very painful. The connection between
the symptoms and the ingredients is too consistent to be coincidental.
I believe you when you say it's not MSG, but what is it?


--Lia