Sylvia wrote:

how do strict kosher people eat at other people's home.

The ones I've known don't eat out except at the home of other people who
keep strict kosher. In an emergency, I believe there are waffles built
into the kosher regulations, since I know there are waffles built into
other regs -- for instance, travelling more than a very short distance
is prohibited on the Sabbath, but if someone needs emergency medical
attention, it's okay to travel to the hospital to get medical care. But
it's not okay to travel back home afterwards until the Sabbath is over.

--
Sylvia Steiger RN,

Any rule of halacha may be broken if illness or death will be a direct
result of keeping the rule.
If there is no food available in a true emergency but that which is not
kosher, it is ok to eat enough to stay alive.

My strictly kosher friends invited me to their homes or else we ate
together at kosher or dairy restaurants. My not-so-strict friends will
eat vegetarian food at my home, prepared in my pasta pot (which has
never had meat in it), off paper plates and plastic cutlery. They know
that I know the rules and won't violate them knowingly.

That having been said, I did make a lunch for a not-strict friend
consisting of perfectly good kosher chicken soup (prepared in a new pot
never used for anything else). Unfortunately to round out the meal I did
prepare grilled cheese sandwiches. I brought the plate of sandwiches out
after the soup was put on the table. There was a moment of silence and
then we both broke out laughing!
We ate the soup.

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:52:06 -0700, Arri London
wrote:

In rec.food.cooking, Frogleg wrote:

Are there any other religions that have odd food prohibitions?


*Your* religion has _odd_ food prohibitions. *My* religion has perfectly
logical ones....

You forgot the :-) :-)

OK, my meaning was that I can see logic in strictly vegetarian
doctrines, or specific "fasting" days as sacrifice, self-denial, or
penance, but other than kosher (and halal) directives, I'm ignorant of
religious practices forbidding what I can only call an odd assortment
of foods or food preparations. Enquiring minds...

(Linda) wrote in message ...
It is indeed the egg in mayo that is the problem because it can not be
proven that the eggs "mother" was slaughtered in a "kosher" fashion.
It's the law!!! If you google for "keeping kosher" all the dietary laws
with reasoning behind them can be found..............Linda

Yes, but where can I find the dietary laws without reasoning behind them?

By the way, google searches return a lot of bullshit along with the good dope.

-bwg

Frogleg wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:17:35 GMT, "Vox Humana"
wrote:

Here is what Judaism 101 says about the subject.
Why Do We Observe the Laws of Kashrut?
Many modern Jews think that the laws of kashrut are simply primitive health
regulations that have become obsolete with modern methods of food
preparation. There is no question that some of the dietary laws have some
beneficial health effects. For example, the laws regarding kosher slaughter
are so sanitary that kosher butchers and slaughterhouses have been exempted
from many USDA regulations.
snip excellent material

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Yeah, but... where did this stuff *come* from? Outside the context of
God speaking to Moses and Aaron. I believe that the Torah (Old

When did God speak to Aaron? I must have een sleeping in those
classes.
Testament) is primarily a collection of semetic myths and stories.
^^^^^^^
That should be Semitic.

Doubtless intended to illustrate moral principles, codify a tribe's
history, give directions for respectable living, etc. Still, one
wonders what practical advice the food rules collected. Regular ol'
finfish would go bad just as quickly as shrimp; both can be dried for
later use. Why would a rabbit be forbidden? I have a hard time
believing God took Moses and Aaron aside and said, "take this down: no
rabbit. No camel, " etc., etc. in one session of dictation. The laws
*must* have developed over time AND had some original reasoning behind
them.

The orthodox rabbis in the yeshivot in which I studied pretty much
insisted that there was no rationale for them. Of course, they lied to
me about so many things...


Perhaps the idea of distinguishing "us" from "them" is as good as any.
In that case, there need be no 'practical' reason -- just "they eat/do
it; we don't," and it's futile to try and find logical reasons at all.
Maybe kosher is a combination. Pork is also forbidden to Muslims, so
that must have some historical importance in the middle east. If
trichinosis is the logic, the worms are also present in wild game and
killed by thorough cooking, so both kosher and halal rules might say
"eat no undercooked pork or antelope."

Wild game, in general, will not be kosher, because it is not
slaughtered in accordance with Jewish dietary laws.


It's certainly an interesting field for speculation/discussion. :-)

Or perhaps more appropriately, scholarly study.

-bwg

On 27 Oct 2003 10:07:13 -0800, (Barry Grau)
wrote:

Frogleg wrote
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:17:35 GMT, "Vox Humana"
wrote:

Here is what Judaism 101 says about the subject.
Why Do We Observe the Laws of Kashrut?
Many modern Jews think that the laws of kashrut are simply primitive health
regulations that have become obsolete with modern methods of food
preparation. There is no question that some of the dietary laws have some
beneficial health effects. For example, the laws regarding kosher slaughter
are so sanitary that kosher butchers and slaughterhouses have been exempted
from many USDA regulations.
snip excellent material

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Yeah, but... where did this stuff *come* from? Outside the context of
God speaking to Moses and Aaron. I believe that the Torah (Old

When did God speak to Aaron? I must have een sleeping in those
classes.

Leviticus 11:1

"And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,..."

Testament) is primarily a collection of semetic myths and stories.
^^^^^^^
That should be Semitic.

Sorry. I try to look up words I'm unused to, and failed in this case.

Doubtless intended to illustrate moral principles, codify a tribe's
history, give directions for respectable living, etc. Still, one
wonders what practical advice the food rules collected. Regular ol'
finfish would go bad just as quickly as shrimp; both can be dried for
later use. Why would a rabbit be forbidden? I have a hard time
believing God took Moses and Aaron aside and said, "take this down: no
rabbit. No camel, " etc., etc. in one session of dictation. The laws
*must* have developed over time AND had some original reasoning behind
them.

The orthodox rabbis in the yeshivot in which I studied pretty much
insisted that there was no rationale for them. Of course, they lied to
me about so many things...

Can't speak for your rabbis, but I grew up with a lot of "because I
said so" rationales. From the little discussion here and a further bit
of online research, it appears "because I said so" will have to
satisfy me. I liken it to a lot of 'modern' weight-loss or special
diesease diets -- if it's complicated and difficult to adhere to, one
reaps sastisfaction in taking the trouble, as well as a certain
pleasure in being "special." (not all diets; not all disease
restrictions). It appears that keeping kosher is both tedious (from my
point of view) and *definitely* a way to separate 'us' and 'them.'
Not only avoiding certain foods, but even their preparation and
serving in a non-kosher setting pretty well defines separatness in
many life activities.

Perhaps the idea of distinguishing "us" from "them" is as good as any.
In that case, there need be no 'practical' reason -- just "they eat/do
it; we don't," and it's futile to try and find logical reasons at all.
Maybe kosher is a combination. If
trichinosis is the logic, the worms are also present in wild game and
killed by thorough cooking, so both kosher and halal rules might say
"eat no undercooked pork or antelope."

Wild game, in general, will not be kosher, because it is not
slaughtered in accordance with Jewish dietary laws.

Hmmm.

It's certainly an interesting field for speculation/discussion. :-)

Or perhaps more appropriately, scholarly study.

But isn't much of the Talmud just sitting around and arguing the fine
points? I've certainly learned a bit from this exchange, although I
don't intend to engage in other than a personal quest for knowlege.
Or, to put it differently, I'm curious.

On 27 Oct 2003 10:07:13 -0800, (Barry Grau) wrote:

Frogleg wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:17:35 GMT, "Vox Humana"
wrote:

Here is what Judaism 101 says about the subject.
Why Do We Observe the Laws of Kashrut?
Many modern Jews think that the laws of kashrut are simply primitive health
regulations that have become obsolete with modern methods of food
preparation. There is no question that some of the dietary laws have some
beneficial health effects. For example, the laws regarding kosher slaughter
are so sanitary that kosher butchers and slaughterhouses have been exempted
from many USDA regulations.
snip excellent material

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Yeah, but... where did this stuff *come* from? Outside the context of
God speaking to Moses and Aaron. I believe that the Torah (Old

When did God speak to Aaron? I must have een sleeping in those
classes.

Leviticus 10:8 'G*d spoke to Aaron, saying'

On 27 Oct 2003 09:57:09 -0800, (Barry Grau) wrote:

(Linda) wrote in message ...
It is indeed the egg in mayo that is the problem because it can not be
proven that the eggs "mother" was slaughtered in a "kosher" fashion.
It's the law!!! If you google for "keeping kosher" all the dietary laws
with reasoning behind them can be found..............Linda

Yes, but where can I find the dietary laws without reasoning behind them?

Exodus, Leviticus ...

http://bible.ort.org/books/pentd2.as...OK=3&CHAPTER=1


By the way, google searches return a lot of bullshit along with the good dope.

-bwg

Arri London wrote in message ...
Any rule of halacha may be broken if illness or death will be a direct
result of keeping the rule.

In fact, today's edition of the leftist Israeli daily newspaper,
Haaretz, cites a report in Yedioth Ahronoth (an Israeli mass
circulation daily which is, I believe, published only in Hebrew) that
"a number of prominent Orthodox rabbis" have set aside "an ancient
Jewish prohibition against raising swine in the Holy Land" to allow
watchpigs to function in security roles in settlements on the West
Bank --

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=354748&contrassID=1&subContrass ID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

If there is no food available in a true emergency but that which is not
kosher, it is ok to eat enough to stay alive.

-bwg

Nearly *every* foodstuff has the potential to be lethal.

True, but chicken (for example) doesn't seem to go bad as fast as seafood.

"Setting apart" is a much more reasonable take on kosher/halal.

Your opinion. Mine is that *both* applied.

--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

Seventh-day Adventists are supposed to be vegetarians, aren't they?

Not to my understanding, but I'm not a SDA so I could well be wrong.

what other religions exclude *specific* foods, not classes of?

I don't know of any religions that exclude specific foods -- they ALL
exclude "classes." Kosher excludes shellfish, anything from an animal
with cloven hooves, etc.

Can good Mormons eat chocolate?

No, it contains caffeine, which is prohibited. But I'd consider
chocolate a class anyway, rather than a specific item -- it comes in
powder form, cooking bars, candy bars, as filling in some items and
coating in others.

--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

If there is no food available in a true emergency but that which is
not kosher, it is ok to eat enough to stay alive.

That is consistent with other rules that I've researched.
(multicultural studies class for a nursing degree)

--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 02:32:45 GMT, Sylvia wrote:

Seventh-day Adventists are supposed to be vegetarians, aren't they?

Not to my understanding, but I'm not a SDA so I could well be wrong.

The SDA's have always encouraged, but not mandated, a vegetarian (preferably
vegan) diet. The basis for this philosophy is the book "On Diet and Foods" by
Ellen G. White. Loma Linda University is an SDA institution with an excellent
nutrition department.

As a nurse studying for a DT-R (Dietetic Technician-Registered), I took a
cooking course at the local SDA church and was very impressed. I'd been
vegetarian since 1969 and thought I was pretty knowledgeable of veg cooking, but
was pleasantly surprised to learn how many of the standard comfort foods, on
which most North Americans have grown up, could be made vegetarian or vegan.

See:
http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/heal...arian-diet.htm

In article , Sylvia
wrote:

Seventh-day Adventists are supposed to be vegetarians, aren't they?

Not to my understanding, but I'm not a SDA so I could well be wrong.

It is the goal of SDA, and recommended by the church. I believe the
reasoning is that Man did not eat meat in the garden of eden, in fact
not until after the flood and so after Christ, we shouldn't eat meat
anymore, as Christ restored us.

Can good Mormons eat chocolate?

No, it contains caffeine, which is prohibited. But I'd consider
chocolate a class anyway, rather than a specific item -- it comes in
powder form, cooking bars, candy bars, as filling in some items and
coating in others.

My understanding of Mormonism's prohibitions are that they
specifically say hot drinks, mentioning coffee and tea, and alcohol.
I've never met a Mormon who didn't eat chocolate on religious grounds,
though I have met some who wouldn't drink colas.

Regards,
Ranee

--
Remove do not and spam to e-mail me.

"The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of
heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man." Acts 17:24

Sylvia wrote:
If there is no food available in a true emergency but that which is
not kosher, it is ok to eat enough to stay alive.

That is consistent with other rules that I've researched. (multicultural
studies class for a nursing degree)


It's also consistant with the story of Elijah in 1 Kings 17:4-6. (Raven
were unclean birds.)

Best regards,
Bob

Sylvia wrote:

If there is no food available in a true emergency but that which is
not kosher, it is ok to eat enough to stay alive.

That is consistent with other rules that I've researched.
(multicultural studies class for a nursing degree)

--
Sylvia Steiger RN,

It's similar in Islam. The Ramadan fast (which is occurring now) can be
dispensed with by the elderly, the sick, the pregnant and travellers
(who might not be able to eat during the permitted hours) etc.