"Nancy Young" wrote in message
...
Peter Aitken wrote:

"Nancy Young" wrote in message

This is what I always wonder, not that it's going to be a problem for
me or anything, but how do strict kosher people eat at other people's
home. I can promise you, I have not one single pot, pan, dish, bowl,
WHATEVER, that hasn't been in contact with both dairy and meat. I
can see disposable dishes, but I for sure am not going shopping to
buy virgin pots and pans.

I think maybe that underscores the theory about keeping Jewish people
separated from other peoples.

A large majority of Jews do not follow the dietary laws, or follow them
only
partially. Many Jews that I know consider the dietary laws to be a relic
of
ancient superstitions and pay no attention to them.

That's been my experience as well. I have only known one person
(someone from work) who was STRICT. It caused big problems because
we took turns on call and she could never be on call Friday nights
or Saturdays. She went out of her way to say, I will be on call
two weeks in a row, I just can't work until Sunday morning. Okay,
I realize I just drifted off topic.

But when we would have group luncheons, we would have to go to
kosher restaurants. One was a kosher Chinese restaurant (laughing),
imagine that? She raved about the place. Gack, it was not so good,
but she didn't know better. The next place we went to, in the same
town, they had FABULOUS vegetarian pizza. I'm not kidding, the best
pizza.


Don't laugh about the kosher Chinese restaurants! It was before my time, but
I have read about Chinese restaurants in NY city that had a rabbi in the
kitchen keeping an eye out to make sure that things were kosher. There's the
old joke:

Chinaman: Our culture is 4000 years old.
Jew: Ours is 5000 years old.
Chinaman: Hmmm - what did you eat for the first 1000 years?


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:09:55 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

In rec.food.cooking, Frogleg wrote:

Are there any other religions that have odd food prohibitions?

Many, many religions have rules WRT food.

As my post said, I'm aware of Catholic 'fasting' days, and of
religions which prescribe vegetarianism. And that Muslim halal rules
are somewhat similar to kosher. My query was in regard to other
religious practices that might forbid some foods, rather than a class
of foods.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:17:35 GMT, "Vox Humana"
wrote:

Here is what Judaism 101 says about the subject.
Why Do We Observe the Laws of Kashrut?
Many modern Jews think that the laws of kashrut are simply primitive health
regulations that have become obsolete with modern methods of food
preparation. There is no question that some of the dietary laws have some
beneficial health effects. For example, the laws regarding kosher slaughter
are so sanitary that kosher butchers and slaughterhouses have been exempted
from many USDA regulations.
snip excellent material

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Yeah, but... where did this stuff *come* from? Outside the context of
God speaking to Moses and Aaron. I believe that the Torah (Old
Testament) is primarily a collection of semetic myths and stories.
Doubtless intended to illustrate moral principles, codify a tribe's
history, give directions for respectable living, etc. Still, one
wonders what practical advice the food rules collected. Regular ol'
finfish would go bad just as quickly as shrimp; both can be dried for
later use. Why would a rabbit be forbidden? I have a hard time
believing God took Moses and Aaron aside and said, "take this down: no
rabbit. No camel, " etc., etc. in one session of dictation. The laws
*must* have developed over time AND had some original reasoning behind
them.

Perhaps the idea of distinguishing "us" from "them" is as good as any.
In that case, there need be no 'practical' reason -- just "they eat/do
it; we don't," and it's futile to try and find logical reasons at all.
Maybe kosher is a combination. Pork is also forbidden to Muslims, so
that must have some historical importance in the middle east. If
trichinosis is the logic, the worms are also present in wild game and
killed by thorough cooking, so both kosher and halal rules might say
"eat no undercooked pork or antelope."

It's certainly an interesting field for speculation/discussion. :-)

"Frogleg" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:17:35 GMT, "Vox Humana"
wrote:

Here is what Judaism 101 says about the subject.
Why Do We Observe the Laws of Kashrut?
Many modern Jews think that the laws of kashrut are simply primitive
health
regulations that have become obsolete with modern methods of food
preparation. There is no question that some of the dietary laws have some
beneficial health effects. For example, the laws regarding kosher
slaughter
are so sanitary that kosher butchers and slaughterhouses have been
exempted
from many USDA regulations.
snip excellent material

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Yeah, but... where did this stuff *come* from? Outside the context of
God speaking to Moses and Aaron. I believe that the Torah (Old
Testament) is primarily a collection of semetic myths and stories.
Doubtless intended to illustrate moral principles, codify a tribe's
history, give directions for respectable living, etc. Still, one
wonders what practical advice the food rules collected. Regular ol'
finfish would go bad just as quickly as shrimp; both can be dried for
later use. Why would a rabbit be forbidden? I have a hard time
believing God took Moses and Aaron aside and said, "take this down: no
rabbit. No camel, " etc., etc. in one session of dictation. The laws
*must* have developed over time AND had some original reasoning behind
them.

Perhaps the idea of distinguishing "us" from "them" is as good as any.
In that case, there need be no 'practical' reason -- just "they eat/do
it; we don't," and it's futile to try and find logical reasons at all.
Maybe kosher is a combination. Pork is also forbidden to Muslims, so
that must have some historical importance in the middle east. If
trichinosis is the logic, the worms are also present in wild game and
killed by thorough cooking, so both kosher and halal rules might say
"eat no undercooked pork or antelope."

It's certainly an interesting field for speculation/discussion. :-)

All religions have one thing in common. They are irrational. When people
start to rationalize them, the trouble starts. This religion doesn't
believe in drinking alcohol so you shouldn't drink it. That religion
believes their god is the true god, so you have to believe that. Sometimes
you can find some benefits in the beliefs or practices. Often they are just
a collections of myths and superstitions that bind people together and give
meaning and comfort in a world that is otherwise harsh and random. You see
strange things happen when science advances and the old ways are proven to
be false.

Anyone who follows an organized religion follows the guidance of that
religion for one reason, and that is the basis of
"Faith".=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Linda

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:36:14 GMT, Frogleg wrote:


Perhaps the idea of distinguishing "us" from "them" is as good as any.
In that case, there need be no 'practical' reason -- just "they eat/do
it; we don't," and it's futile to try and find logical reasons at all.
Maybe kosher is a combination. Pork is also forbidden to Muslims, so
that must have some historical importance in the middle east. If
trichinosis is the logic, the worms are also present in wild game and
killed by thorough cooking, so both kosher and halal rules might say
"eat no undercooked pork or antelope."

Both Christianity and Islam are derived from Judaism. The old testament
is part of the Islam religion. So, it is not unexpected that they keep
kosher. Both Hebrews and Arabs are the children of Abraham (Ibraham)
and Hebrews are referred to as the people of the book (Ahlul Kitaab).

As for christianity, the early christians did keep kosher. If you where
a Jewish Christian, you obeyed Jewish laws. The church then began to
seek converts amongst the gentiles. Paul (Saul of Tarsus) realized that
it would be difficult to spread the word of Christ to the gentiles, if
they had to convert to Judaism first. It was also obvious that there
were problems getting adult converts keep all the Jewish laws - like
keeping kosher and getting circumcised. Paul then reached an uneasy
truce with the church that allowed gentiles to follow Christ without
converting to Judaism.

They set Jews apart from gentiles. There doesn't have to be any
logic beyond that.

True, but a number of kosher dietary restrictions have been shown to be
sensible by modern research methods. Pork was a likely source of
disease until fairly recently. Shellfish are dangerous when not
properly refrigerated, which was difficult until recent times.

--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

how do strict kosher people eat at other people's home.

The ones I've known don't eat out except at the home of other people who
keep strict kosher. In an emergency, I believe there are waffles built
into the kosher regulations, since I know there are waffles built into
other regs -- for instance, travelling more than a very short distance
is prohibited on the Sabbath, but if someone needs emergency medical
attention, it's okay to travel to the hospital to get medical care. But
it's not okay to travel back home afterwards until the Sabbath is over.

--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

Are there any other religions that have odd food prohibitions?

Sure. Mormons aren't allowed caffeine. Seventh-day Adventists keep
kosher more-or-less. Muslims aren't allowed pork or alcohol. IIRC,
Buddhists are vegetarians because they're not allowed to kill. And
those are just the few that popped into my mind.

--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:55:34 GMT, Sylvia
wrote:

quoting someone

They set Jews apart from gentiles. There doesn't have to be any
logic beyond that.

True, but a number of kosher dietary restrictions have been shown to be
sensible by modern research methods. Pork was a likely source of
disease until fairly recently. Shellfish are dangerous when not
properly refrigerated, which was difficult until recent times.

So are finfish, chicken, beef, milk, eggs, improperly canned green
beans, and absence of handwashing. Nearly *every* foodstuff has the
potential to be lethal. "Setting apart" is a much more reasonable take
on kosher/halal.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:03:11 GMT, Sylvia
wrote:

Are there any other religions that have odd food prohibitions?

Sure. Mormons aren't allowed caffeine. Seventh-day Adventists keep
kosher more-or-less. Muslims aren't allowed pork or alcohol. IIRC,
Buddhists are vegetarians because they're not allowed to kill. And
those are just the few that popped into my mind.

Ahh. I'd forgotten the Mormons and caffeine. Seventh-day Adventists
are supposed to be vegetarians, aren't they? Once again, vegetarians
aside, what other religions exclude *specific* foods, not classes of?
Can good Mormons eat chocolate?

Frogleg wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:03:11 GMT, Sylvia
wrote:

Are there any other religions that have odd food prohibitions?

Sure. Mormons aren't allowed caffeine. Seventh-day Adventists keep
kosher more-or-less. Muslims aren't allowed pork or alcohol. IIRC,
Buddhists are vegetarians because they're not allowed to kill. And
those are just the few that popped into my mind.

Ahh. I'd forgotten the Mormons and caffeine. Seventh-day Adventists
are supposed to be vegetarians, aren't they? Once again, vegetarians
aside, what other religions exclude *specific* foods, not classes of?
Can good Mormons eat chocolate?

How about Indians who hold cows sacred? I have no idea if they can
eat other types of meat.

nancy

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:55:14 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:03:11 GMT, Sylvia
wrote:

Are there any other religions that have odd food prohibitions?

Sure. Mormons aren't allowed caffeine. Seventh-day Adventists keep
kosher more-or-less. Muslims aren't allowed pork or alcohol. IIRC,
Buddhists are vegetarians because they're not allowed to kill. And
those are just the few that popped into my mind.

Ahh. I'd forgotten the Mormons and caffeine. Seventh-day Adventists
are supposed to be vegetarians, aren't they? Once again, vegetarians
aside, what other religions exclude *specific* foods, not classes of?
Can good Mormons eat chocolate?

Hindus can't eat beef. And I think Jains (at least if they observe
strictly) aren't supposed to eat anything that dies if you eat it; ie
fruit and other items that can be harvested without killing the plant
only.

Regards,
Tracy R.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:17:52 -0500, Tracy Riggs
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:55:14 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:03:11 GMT, Sylvia
wrote:

Are there any other religions that have odd food prohibitions?

Sure. Mormons aren't allowed caffeine. Seventh-day Adventists keep
kosher more-or-less. Muslims aren't allowed pork or alcohol. IIRC,
Buddhists are vegetarians because they're not allowed to kill. And
those are just the few that popped into my mind.

Ahh. I'd forgotten the Mormons and caffeine. Seventh-day Adventists
are supposed to be vegetarians, aren't they? Once again, vegetarians
aside, what other religions exclude *specific* foods, not classes of?
Can good Mormons eat chocolate?

Hindus can't eat beef. And I think Jains (at least if they observe
strictly) aren't supposed to eat anything that dies if you eat it; ie
fruit and other items that can be harvested without killing the plant
only.

Hindus and beef is not an absolute. Yes, there is a veda that
proscribes it, and there are those who are extremist about it; but, most
take it as a practical restriction: it is hard to find good quality beef
and meat is expensive. The beef there is very lean and very stringy.
Oxen and buffalos are more valuable as milk producers and beasts of
burden. A single cow yields a lot of meat. More than a village could
consume before the meat went bad.

Then there is the climate. In most of India the heat and often the
humidity make it more amenable to a vegetarian diet, although where fish
is available it is often a staple in the diet. In the north, goat
(often called mutton, locally), lamb, and fowl are a part of the diet.
These are small animals that can be consumed quickly and whose meat
doesn't improve with aging. In Goa pork is consumed. This stems from
it's having been a Portuguese colony

You are basically right about the Jains. They try not to eat anything
that requires harming the plant to harvest. So, roots are out as it
kills the plant. Most grains are allowed if harvested at the end of the
plant's life.

wrote:

In rec.food.cooking, Frogleg wrote:

Are there any other religions that have odd food prohibitions?


*Your* religion has _odd_ food prohibitions. *My* religion has perfectly
logical ones....