"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...
(Linda) wrote:

It is indeed the egg in mayo that is the problem because it can not
be
proven that the eggs "mother" was slaughtered in a "kosher" fashion.
It's the law!!! If you google for "keeping kosher" all the dietary
laws
with reasoning behind them can be found..............Linda

WTF? You mean they get eggs from dead chickens?


Yes, if the egg is about to be laid and the chicken is
dispatched from this life it is very likely the egg will be
inside the dead chicken. It is not Kosher, though, and
may not be eaten (the egg, not the chicken.)

pavane

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
(Linda) wrote:

It is indeed the egg in mayo that is the problem because it can not be
proven that the eggs "mother" was slaughtered in a "kosher" fashion.
It's the law!!! If you google for "keeping kosher" all the dietary
laws
with reasoning behind them can be found..............Linda

WTF? You mean they get eggs from dead chickens?

I remember reading somewhere once that unlaid eggs
are considered to be meat for kosher purposes. So,
apparently yes, they do get eggs from dead chickens.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

My limited understanding of kosher is that this form of dietary order
came about because of the incidence in ancient times of illnesses
produced from eating certain foods, or in the food preparation itself.
In countries where heat in spring, summer and even autumn is high, and
in times of no refrigeration, milk went "off", meat went "off" and
foods such as shellfish had a shelf-life of about half a day. One
can imagine perhaps a rash of illness when a large gathering ate some
meat which had been prepared with milk that was not fresh.

Pork producers will tell you that these animals tend to be subject to
more strains of disease of their organs than many other animals. Even
today, many pigs are rejected for slaughter at registered abbatoirs.

I understand that festivals, such as passover, and the dietary
constraints this religious observance places on Jews who practise
their religion, are more consistent with the type of religious fasting
common to other religions (and even Jews I believe at Yom Kippur) in
that depriving oneself of many foods and having to make more elaborate
eating arrangements is a constant reminder during this holy Jewish
week.

If I have made errors in what I understand to be the case, I apologise
to any who may feel offended.

Cheers
TigsNona

"Tigsnona" wrote in message
...
My limited understanding of kosher is that this form of dietary order
came about because of the incidence in ancient times of illnesses
produced from eating certain foods, or in the food preparation itself.
In countries where heat in spring, summer and even autumn is high, and
in times of no refrigeration, milk went "off", meat went "off" and
foods such as shellfish had a shelf-life of about half a day. One
can imagine perhaps a rash of illness when a large gathering ate some
meat which had been prepared with milk that was not fresh.

It's my understanding that all the rules and regulations where the price
paid to be God's chosen people. They set Jews apart from gentiles. There
doesn't have to be any logic beyond that.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:13:37 GMT, "Vox Humana"
wrote:


"Tigsnona" wrote in message
.. .
My limited understanding of kosher is that this form of dietary order
came about because of the incidence in ancient times of illnesses
produced from eating certain foods, or in the food preparation itself.
In countries where heat in spring, summer and even autumn is high, and
in times of no refrigeration, milk went "off", meat went "off" and
foods such as shellfish had a shelf-life of about half a day. One
can imagine perhaps a rash of illness when a large gathering ate some
meat which had been prepared with milk that was not fresh.

It's my understanding that all the rules and regulations where the price
paid to be God's chosen people. They set Jews apart from gentiles. There
doesn't have to be any logic beyond that.


Now you are confusing what started out as empirical dietary laws and
what they evolved into as ritual and obsessive compulsive refinement
transmuted them. If you look at the rules, you can see a base logic to
them.

Shell fish are a common allergy source.

Animals that where not known, or were uncommon, or not viewed as sources
of meat at the time are not accounted for.

Animals that may be OK were excluded to make the rule easier to
remember.

Preferences and temporal imperatives of the priests passing down the
rules probably influenced the interpretations.

Some interpretations of Exodus say 'milk, even that of its mother',
which implies that until then Hebrews did prepare cook kid/calf/lamb in
goat/cow/lamb milk, but the idolatrous tribe used a different animal's
milk. Which implies that the prohibition was most likely done to
separate the Hebrews from the others - not just by custom but
physically. Would be sorta like a priest deciding Americans were
corrupting the people with their Thanksgiving rituals, so he forbids the
eating of turkey, and of course anything served with it is unclean.

Serve milk and meat, even at different times, in the same wooden bowl
and you have a great culture medium for bacteria. Doesn't have to be at
the same time, the residues tended to stay.

So, kid/calf/lamb in milk could be the traditional meal eaten on at
festive/holy occasions by an idolatrous neighbor. It could be the
result of several people getting sick eating from the bowls it was
served from, although this is probably the source of keeping separate
bowls. It could be a priest really didn't like the taste of it.

Robert Klute wrote:

Serve milk and meat, even at different times, in the same wooden bowl
and you have a great culture medium for bacteria. Doesn't have to be at
the same time, the residues tended to stay.

This is what I always wonder, not that it's going to be a problem for
me or anything, but how do strict kosher people eat at other people's
home. I can promise you, I have not one single pot, pan, dish, bowl,
WHATEVER, that hasn't been in contact with both dairy and meat. I
can see disposable dishes, but I for sure am not going shopping to
buy virgin pots and pans.

I think maybe that underscores the theory about keeping Jewish people
separated from other peoples.

nancy

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:40:02 -0400, Nancy Young
wrote:

Robert Klute wrote:

Serve milk and meat, even at different times, in the same wooden bowl
and you have a great culture medium for bacteria. Doesn't have to be at
the same time, the residues tended to stay.

This is what I always wonder, not that it's going to be a problem for
me or anything, but how do strict kosher people eat at other people's
home. I can promise you, I have not one single pot, pan, dish, bowl,
WHATEVER, that hasn't been in contact with both dairy and meat. I
can see disposable dishes, but I for sure am not going shopping to
buy virgin pots and pans.

The very strict don't eat out, unless the host is also very strict.

I think maybe that underscores the theory about keeping Jewish people
separated from other peoples.

As you might have noticed, I consider the many of the current
interpretations of Kosher have been taken to an extreme. I really see
an obsessive compulsive behavior - the sort of extremist, repetitive,
and illogical behavior that happens when you believe in something, but
the end result you expected didn't happen, so you must have done it
wrong or not often enough. 'God said we were the chosen people, all we
had to do was obey his laws. God has not elevated us, so we must have
made a mistake in how we followed the ritual. We must be stricter, do
it more often, ...'.

"Robert Klute" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:13:37 GMT, "Vox Humana"
wrote:


"Tigsnona" wrote in message
.. .
My limited understanding of kosher is that this form of dietary order
came about because of the incidence in ancient times of illnesses
produced from eating certain foods, or in the food preparation itself.
In countries where heat in spring, summer and even autumn is high, and
in times of no refrigeration, milk went "off", meat went "off" and
foods such as shellfish had a shelf-life of about half a day. One
can imagine perhaps a rash of illness when a large gathering ate some
meat which had been prepared with milk that was not fresh.

It's my understanding that all the rules and regulations where the price
paid to be God's chosen people. They set Jews apart from gentiles.
There
doesn't have to be any logic beyond that.


Now you are confusing what started out as empirical dietary laws and
what they evolved into as ritual and obsessive compulsive refinement
transmuted them. If you look at the rules, you can see a base logic to
them.


Here is what Judaism 101 says about the subject.
Why Do We Observe the Laws of Kashrut?
Many modern Jews think that the laws of kashrut are simply primitive health
regulations that have become obsolete with modern methods of food
preparation. There is no question that some of the dietary laws have some
beneficial health effects. For example, the laws regarding kosher slaughter
are so sanitary that kosher butchers and slaughterhouses have been exempted
from many USDA regulations.

However, health is not the only reason for Jewish dietary laws. Many of the
laws of kashrut have no known connection with health. To the best of our
modern scientific knowledge, there is no reason why camel or rabbit meat
(both treyf) is any less healthy than cow or goat meat. In addition, some of
the health benefits to be derived from kashrut were not made obsolete by the
refrigerator. For example, there is some evidence that eating meat and dairy
together interferes with digestion, and no modern food preparation technique
reproduces the health benefit of the kosher law of eating them separately.

In recent years, several secular sources that have seriously looked into
this matter have acknowledged that health does not explain these
prohibitions. Some have suggested that the prohibitions are instead derived
from environmental considerations. For example, a camel (which is not
kosher) is more useful as a beast of burden than as a source of food. In the
Middle Eastern climate, the pig consumes a quantity of food that is
disproportional to its value as a food source. But again, these are not
reasons that come from Jewish tradition.

The short answer to why Jews observe these laws is: because the Torah says
so. The Torah does not specify any reason for these laws, and for a
Torah-observant, traditional Jew, there is no need for any other reason.
Some have suggested that the laws of kashrut fall into the category of
"chukkim," laws for which there is no reason. We show our obedience to G-d
by following these laws even though we do not know the reason. Others,
however, have tried to ascertain G-d's reason for imposing these laws.

In his book "To Be a Jew" (an excellent resource on traditional Judaism),
Rabbi Hayim Halevy Donin suggests that the dietary laws are designed as a
call to holiness. The ability to distinguish between right and wrong, good
and evil, pure and defiled, the sacred and the profane, is very important in
Judaism. Imposing rules on what you can and cannot eat ingrains that kind of
self control, requiring us to learn to control even our most basic, primal
instincts.

Donin also points out that the laws of kashrut elevate the simple act of
eating into a religious ritual. The Jewish dinner table is often compared to
the Temple altar in rabbinic literature. A Jew who observes the laws of
kashrut cannot eat a meal without being reminded of the fact that he is a
Jew,

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Nancy Young wrote:

This is what I always wonder, not that it's going to be a problem for
me or anything, but how do strict kosher people eat at other people's
home.


The short answer is, they don't. They only eat in their homes or those
friends who also keep Kosher.




Brian Rodenborn

"Nancy Young" wrote in message
...
Robert Klute wrote:

Serve milk and meat, even at different times, in the same wooden bowl
and you have a great culture medium for bacteria. Doesn't have to be at
the same time, the residues tended to stay.

This is what I always wonder, not that it's going to be a problem for
me or anything, but how do strict kosher people eat at other people's
home. I can promise you, I have not one single pot, pan, dish, bowl,
WHATEVER, that hasn't been in contact with both dairy and meat. I
can see disposable dishes, but I for sure am not going shopping to
buy virgin pots and pans.

I think maybe that underscores the theory about keeping Jewish people
separated from other peoples.

nancy

A large majority of Jews do not follow the dietary laws, or follow them only
partially. Many Jews that I know consider the dietary laws to be a relic of
ancient superstitions and pay no attention to them. Others appreciate the
laws as part of their cultural heritage and obey them in a token way, such
as avoiding pork but ignoring the other prohibitions. A friend once told me
"I refuse to believe in a God who forbids me to eat shrimp." In my
experience, Jews who keep strict kosher simply do not place themselves in
situations such as eating at your house (or mine).


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Robert Klute" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:40:02 -0400, Nancy Young
wrote:

Robert Klute wrote:

Serve milk and meat, even at different times, in the same wooden bowl
and you have a great culture medium for bacteria. Doesn't have to be
at
the same time, the residues tended to stay.

This is what I always wonder, not that it's going to be a problem for
me or anything, but how do strict kosher people eat at other people's
home. I can promise you, I have not one single pot, pan, dish, bowl,
WHATEVER, that hasn't been in contact with both dairy and meat. I
can see disposable dishes, but I for sure am not going shopping to
buy virgin pots and pans.

The very strict don't eat out, unless the host is also very strict.

I think maybe that underscores the theory about keeping Jewish people
separated from other peoples.

As you might have noticed, I consider the many of the current
interpretations of Kosher have been taken to an extreme. I really see
an obsessive compulsive behavior - the sort of extremist, repetitive,
and illogical behavior that happens when you believe in something, but
the end result you expected didn't happen, so you must have done it
wrong or not often enough. 'God said we were the chosen people, all we
had to do was obey his laws. God has not elevated us, so we must have
made a mistake in how we followed the ritual. We must be stricter, do
it more often, ...'.

I think this is an accurate analysis. I have read news stories of
communities of super-observant Jews in Israel who take this to the extreme.
I bet the same thing occurs in other religions too. I can see the
psychological comfort that comes from totally subordinating yourself to some
outside authority - you are free from having to decide things for yourself.
If you are convinced that it is a sure ticket to heaven, so much the better.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Peter Aitken wrote:

"Nancy Young" wrote in message

This is what I always wonder, not that it's going to be a problem for
me or anything, but how do strict kosher people eat at other people's
home. I can promise you, I have not one single pot, pan, dish, bowl,
WHATEVER, that hasn't been in contact with both dairy and meat. I
can see disposable dishes, but I for sure am not going shopping to
buy virgin pots and pans.

I think maybe that underscores the theory about keeping Jewish people
separated from other peoples.

A large majority of Jews do not follow the dietary laws, or follow them only
partially. Many Jews that I know consider the dietary laws to be a relic of
ancient superstitions and pay no attention to them.

That's been my experience as well. I have only known one person
(someone from work) who was STRICT. It caused big problems because
we took turns on call and she could never be on call Friday nights
or Saturdays. She went out of her way to say, I will be on call
two weeks in a row, I just can't work until Sunday morning. Okay,
I realize I just drifted off topic.

But when we would have group luncheons, we would have to go to
kosher restaurants. One was a kosher Chinese restaurant (laughing),
imagine that? She raved about the place. Gack, it was not so good,
but she didn't know better. The next place we went to, in the same
town, they had FABULOUS vegetarian pizza. I'm not kidding, the best
pizza.

Others appreciate the
laws as part of their cultural heritage and obey them in a token way, such
as avoiding pork but ignoring the other prohibitions. A friend once told me
"I refuse to believe in a God who forbids me to eat shrimp." In my
experience, Jews who keep strict kosher simply do not place themselves in
situations such as eating at your house (or mine).

I would not wish to feed a vegan, either. I would worry I used some
natural ingredient or something. Truth be told, if I had such severe
dietary restrictions, I would be happy to bring my own food and
beverage to be able to hang out with everyone. I for one would not
be offended as a host if they did, only relieved.

nancy

In rec.food.cooking, Frogleg wrote:

Are there any other religions that have odd food prohibitions?

Many, many religions have rules WRT food.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

In rec.food.cooking, Nancy Young wrote:

This is what I always wonder, not that it's going to be a problem for
me or anything, but how do strict kosher people eat at other people's
home.

They don't.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

Nancy Young wrote:

Robert Klute wrote:

Serve milk and meat, even at different times, in the same wooden bowl
and you have a great culture medium for bacteria. Doesn't have to be at
the same time, the residues tended to stay.

This is what I always wonder, not that it's going to be a problem for
me or anything, but how do strict kosher people eat at other people's
home. I can promise you, I have not one single pot, pan, dish, bowl,
WHATEVER, that hasn't been in contact with both dairy and meat. I
can see disposable dishes, but I for sure am not going shopping to
buy virgin pots and pans.

I think maybe that underscores the theory about keeping Jewish people
separated from other peoples.

nancy


People who keep strict kashrut don't eat at nonkosher homes or in
nonkosher restaurants. I've had enough friends like that and they never
accepted invitations to nonkosher homes.

All the rationalisations about the reasons for the kosher laws are very
much after the fact.

Both milk and meat are each very good culture media for bacteria.
Putting them together doesn't really make them any better at it. So that
in itself isn't the rationale.

The rationale stated by the rabbis is that it is cruel to cook the
animal in its mother's milk. This was later extended to include other
sorts of meat and dairy products.