http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/dining/30wate.html

May 30, 2007

Fighting the Tide, a Few Restaurants Tilt to Tap Water

By MARIAN BURROS


"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino or any other designer water at
either Incanto, a restaurant that opened in San Francisco in 2002, or at
Poggio, which opened in Sausalito, Calif., two years later.

All their water comes out of the tap. It's filtered before it reaches the
table, but it's from the public water system, just the same.

"Serving our local water in reusable carafes makes more sense for the
environment than manufacturing thousands of single-use glass bottles for
someone to use once and throw away," Incanto explains at its Web site.

These two Bay Area restaurants were pretty much alone in kicking the bottle
habit until Alice Waters, the godmother of things organic, sustainable and
local, banned bottled still water at Chez Panisse in Berkeley last year and
started serving only house-made sparkling water this year. Then the press
took notice. Now other California restaurants, like Nopa in San Francisco,
are following suit. Even an ice cream shop - Ici, in Berkeley - has jumped
on the non-bottled-water wagon.

And now, with a little push from Ms. Waters, an important New York City
restaurant is coming on board.

It's a big move in the restaurant industry, which, if you extrapolate from
the amount of water it buys, takes in at least $200 million to $350 million
from bottled water a year, according to the restaurant consultant Clark
Wolf.

The "eat local" movement first became popular in California, so it makes
sense that "drink local" is catching on there as a way to reduce the
environmental costs of manufacturing and transporting bottles of water, as
well as the mountains of plastic that end up in landfills.

But soon the owners of Del Posto in New York, the most elegant and expensive
of the restaurants in the empire of Joseph Bastianich and Mario Batali, will
be joining the nascent movement - once they decide on the proper containers
for their filtered still and carbonated tap water. Etched on the glass will
be an explanation of why bottled water is no longer available.

"Filling cargo ships with water and sending it hundreds and thousands of
miles to get it around the world seems ridiculous," Mr. Bastianich said.
"With all the other things we do for sustainability, it makes sense."

He added that of all their restaurants, Del Posto was best able to afford
the change.

When Maury Rubin opened the first Birdbath Neighborhood Green Bakery in the
East Village in 2005 and the second in Greenwich Village last month, banning
bottled water was a no-brainer. "It was actually an easy decision," Mr.
Rubin said. "Bottled water is not great for the environment."

Other restaurants, including the Farmers Diner in Quechee, Vt., have made
the switch, but they have not made waves. Tod Murphy, who owns the diner and
has gained a certain celebrity in the food world for serving local products,
stopped ordering bottled water in February. "It makes no sense, because we
have great well water," he said, "but I had no idea I was on the cutting
edge."

For almost everyone else the idea is still in the talking stage, in part
because there's a big profit in bottled water, even though some of it comes
out of a tap before it goes into the bottle. Restaurants buy it for $1 or $2
and sell it for as much as $8, or even more, giving it the highest markup of
any item on the menu. Most restaurants making their own sparkling water are
not charging for it.

Geoffrey Zakarian, the chef and an owner of Country in Manhattan, described
the ban as "a worthy thing to do." But he added, "You have to make a
profit."

"Alice is very commendable and extraordinary, and we look to her," Mr.
Zakarian said, "but I think she gets carried away sometimes." He wondered
where he would make up the lost revenue if he eliminated bottled water.
"Serving tap water is a great idea that we'd all love to be able to do, but
it's not going to happen all at once."

Tom Colicchio, the chef and an owner of Craft restaurant and several
spinoffs, was incredulous that restaurants would contemplate such a change.
"This is the first I've heard of it," he said. "Why would you do that - not
from a money standpoint, but from a service and hospitality standpoint?
Fifty to 60 percent prefer bottled water, especially sparkling."

Credit the bottled water industry with a brilliant marketing job, selling
purity and convincing the public that its product tastes better, is more
convenient and is safer than good tap water. From a trickle of Perrier in
the early 1980s, consumption of bottled water in America rose to 27.6
gallons per capita last year, according to the International Bottled Water
Association.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable. Seltzer
Sisters, a company in Redwood City, Calif., that sells seltzer made from
local tap water in old-fashioned reusable glass bottles, says its sales in
Berkeley have risen 20 percent in the last six months. The Berkeley school
district replaced commercially bottled water with large containers of tap
water and cups in all its schools last year.

"The students were up in arms, but a year later no one says anything," said
Ann Cooper, director of the district's nutrition services, who added, "We
have been marketed to the point that children believe they can't drink water
out of the tap."

Dr. Gina Solomon, a senior scientist at the Natural Resources Defense
Council, the environmental advocacy group, said there is no reason to
believe that bottled water is safer than tap water, though there can be
problems with either. The public water supply is much more stringently
regulated by the Environmental Protection Agency than bottled water is by
the Food and Drug Administration. The E.P.A. requires multiple daily tests
for bacteria, for example, with the results available to the public; the
F.D.A. requires weekly testing, which does not have to be reported to the
agency, to the states or to the public.

"The rationale for buying bottled water is a fantasy that has a destructive
downside," Dr. Solomon said. "These companies are marketing an illusion of
environmental purity."

Her organization has calculated how much carbon dioxide - a major greenhouse
gas - is emitted during the transportation of bottled water imported from
France and Italy, the two largest exporters to the United States, and Fiji
water, which travels much farther. Together they account for 4,000 tons of
carbon dioxide, the equivalent, Dr. Solomon said, of the yearly emissions
from 700 cars on the road. She called that "a significant contribution to
global warming, and fundamentally an unnecessary one."

But Stephen Kay, the vice president for communications at the International
Bottled Water Association, said eliminating bottled water would have "a
negligible, nonexistent impact on protecting the environment."

Most restaurateurs seem unready to go cold turkey. Some have moved toward
reducing their carbon footprint by switching to local bottled water instead
of imported, as Dan Barber has done at Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Pocantico
Hills in Westchester County, N.Y. A week ago he also added house-made
seltzer, served from old-fashioned glass bottles.

As part of its low-carbon plan Bon Appétit, the institutional food service
company, is switching to domestic bottled waters from imported and is
looking at a filtering system using local water and reusable glass bottles
for some customers.

Some restaurants make a point of serving tap water but still provide bottled
water on request. "Santa Monica is known for its terrible tap water," said
Anastasia Israel, an owner of Abode, which opened there a month ago. Patrons
are reluctant to drink the tap water, but after servers explain the
filtration process, 80 percent of them give it a try. Carbonation will
follow soon.

Mr. Wolf, the consultant, said he is confident that if restaurants are
pressed to eliminate bottled water, they will figure out how to do it. "No
one is more adaptable than a restaurateur," he said, noting that they whined
when smoking was banned but "survived beautifully."

/

On 2007-06-02, Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....

All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! What trendsetters. Cutting edge. Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. (moi excluded, or course.

nb

On Jun 2, 8:08 pm, notbob wrote:
On 2007-06-02, Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....
All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! What trendsetters. Cutting edge. Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. (moi excluded, or course.

Tell you who are morons, people who live in places with good water,
who buy bottled water. Here in St. Louis, our tap water tastes good.
I think the best tap water I've tasted was in Texarkana. Now, if you
live in New Orleans or Tampa, you do buy bottled water, because the
stuff out of the tap tastes awful.

nb

--Bryan

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:08:05 -0500, notbob wrote:

On 2007-06-02, Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....

All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! What trendsetters. Cutting edge. Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. (moi excluded, or course.

nb

You'd better show up in chat to defend yourself son - because them's
fightin' words.



--
See return address to reply by email

On Jun 2, 9:13�pm, Food Snob wrote:
On Jun 2, 8:08 pm, notbob wrote:





On 2007-06-02, Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....
All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... *Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! *What trendsetters. *Cutting edge. *Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. *(moi excluded, or course.

Tell you who are morons, people who live in places with good water,
who buy bottled water. *Here in St. Louis, our tap water tastes good.
I think the best tap water I've tasted was in Texarkana. *Now, if you
live in New Orleans or Tampa, you do buy bottled water, because the
stuff out of the tap tastes awful.

Even with lousy tap water an RO filter will fix it up so it's better
than any bottled water and for mere pennies (like under a nickel) a
gallon.

Sheldon

notbob wrote:

On 2007-06-02, Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....
All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! What trendsetters. Cutting edge. Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. (moi excluded, or course.




;--)

I have to tell ya, California would be a *great* place if not for the
people...

--
Best
Greg

On Jun 2, 8:22 pm, sf wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:08:05 -0500, notbob wrote:
On 2007-06-02, Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....

All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! What trendsetters. Cutting edge. Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. (moi excluded, or course.

nb

You'd better show up in chat to defend yourself son - because them's
fightin' words.




I've never had *any* doubt whatsover that you fall into the "moron"
category...and you wouldn't even have to be *of" Kalifornia either,
you are vapid in the *extreme*.


--
Best
Greg

On Jun 2, 8:33 pm, Sheldon wrote:
On Jun 2, 9:13?pm, Food Snob wrote:



On Jun 2, 8:08 pm, notbob wrote:

On 2007-06-02, Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....
All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... ?Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! ?What trendsetters. ?Cutting edge. ?Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. ?(moi excluded, or course.

Tell you who are morons, people who live in places with good water,
who buy bottled water. ?Here in St. Louis, our tap water tastes good.
I think the best tap water I've tasted was in Texarkana. ?Now, if you
live in New Orleans or Tampa, you do buy bottled water, because the
stuff out of the tap tastes awful.

Even with lousy tap water an RO filter will fix it up so it's better
than any bottled water and for mere pennies (like under a nickel) a
gallon.

I know I sometimes make hillbilly jokes about the Ozarks, but in some
of the sparsely populated areas, you can dip a pot straight out of the
creeks, and after boiling it (to kill microorganisms) it tastes great.
When we lived in Tampa, I didn't even use unfiltered water to boil
pasta, but the filter machines in the grocery stores made perfectly
decent water for 25 cents a gallon.

Sheldon

--Bryan

Food Snob wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Food Snob wrote:
notbob wrote:
Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....
All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... ?Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! ?What trendsetters. ?Cutting edge. ?Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. ?(moi excluded, or course.

Tell you who are morons, people who live in places with good water,
who buy bottled water. ?Here in St. Louis, our tap water tastes good.
I think the best tap water I've tasted was in Texarkana. ?Now, if you
live in New Orleans or Tampa, you do buy bottled water, because the
stuff out of the tap tastes awful.

Even with lousy tap water an RO filter will fix it up so it's better
than any bottled water and for mere pennies (like under a nickel) a
gallon.

I know I sometimes make hillbilly jokes about the Ozarks, but in some
of the sparsely populated areas, you can dip a pot straight out of the
creeks, and after boiling it (to kill microorganisms) it tastes great.

Feel free to dip a gallon fer berlin' frum my terlit... geeze, why
whould any sane person prefer polluted water just because it's boiled,
it's still gotta taste like the same shit from before it was berled...
berling doesn't change the flavor one iota, except perhaps to amplify
the
crapy taste through reduction.

On Jun 2, 9:01 pm, Sheldon wrote:
Food Snob wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Food Snob wrote:
notbob wrote:
Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....
All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... ?Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! ?What trendsetters. ?Cutting edge. ?Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. ?(moi excluded, or course.

Tell you who are morons, people who live in places with good water,
who buy bottled water. ?Here in St. Louis, our tap water tastes good.
I think the best tap water I've tasted was in Texarkana. ?Now, if you
live in New Orleans or Tampa, you do buy bottled water, because the
stuff out of the tap tastes awful.

Even with lousy tap water an RO filter will fix it up so it's better
than any bottled water and for mere pennies (like under a nickel) a
gallon.

I know I sometimes make hillbilly jokes about the Ozarks, but in some
of the sparsely populated areas, you can dip a pot straight out of the
creeks, and after boiling it (to kill microorganisms) it tastes great.

Feel free to dip a gallon fer berlin' frum my terlit... geeze, why
whould any sane person prefer polluted water just because it's boiled,
it's still gotta taste like the same shit from before it was berled...
berling doesn't change the flavor one iota, except perhaps to amplify
the crapy taste through reduction.

No. What I mean is NO pollution. Seriously clean water.

--Bryan

"Food Snob" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 2, 8:08 pm, notbob wrote:
On 2007-06-02, Gregory Morrow wrote:

(clipped)
Tell you who are morons, people who live in places with good water,
who buy bottled water. Here in St. Louis, our tap water tastes good.
I think the best tap water I've tasted was in Texarkana. Now, if you
live in New Orleans or Tampa, you do buy bottled water, because the
stuff out of the tap tastes awful.
nb

The worst water I ever tasted was in Ft. Stockton, Texas. We stopped for
gas, and I wanted some water and there were these stacks of gallon jugs:
everybody was *buying* water! What a concept (this was many years ago)! I
drank from the free electric water cooler and found out why. Yuck. I bought
water, too.
Edrena

One time on Usenet, said:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:08:05 -0500, notbob wrote:

On 2007-06-02, Gregory Morrow wrote:

"DON'T bother asking for Fiji, San Pellegrino.....

All their water comes out of the tap.

At least all the water that goes in their food, ice cubes, water
fountain, sink, dishwasher, etc.... Maybe even the water they are
charging you 3 times the price of gas for.

It's filtered before it reaches the table.....

Wow! What trendsetters. Cutting edge. Let's advertise.

On the West Coast, at least, tap water is looking more fashionable....

Cuz Left Coaster's are morons. (moi excluded, or course.

nb

You'd better show up in chat to defend yourself son - because them's
fightin' words.



Damn straight! Go get him, Barbara. ;-)

That being said, we're lucky enough to have a 4-family well that
tastes wonderful. I bottle it myself and stick them in the fridge
so it's perfectly cold. Yum!! This thread is making me thirsty...

--
Jani in WA