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General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc.

Condiments - Vinegar



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2003, 09:15 PM
xyz
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Condiments - Vinegar

Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
alive.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2003, 11:08 PM
Blair P. Houghton
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Default Condiments - Vinegar

xyz wrote:
Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
alive.


(Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar. Soy sauce.
Horseradish. There's probably more. Vinegar is just one of
the flavors most people are looking for when dressing their
dinner.

--Blair
"Salt. Pepper. Beak. Etc."
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2003, 05:44 PM
PENMART01
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Posts: n/a
Default Condiments - Vinegar

Blair P. Houghton writes:

xyz wrote:
Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
alive.


Depends on your definition of condiment... my favorite condiment is a savory
celery stick, stuck in a particular red vodka potable.... alchohol is an
excellent preservative, hic.

(Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.


Purely opinion ("good"), NOT fact.

Soy sauce.
Horseradish.


Prepared horseradish contains vinegar.

There are many condiments that are *preserved* with just salt, 'bud', rather
than the combination of salt and vinegar, but typically both brine and acid is
used (sometimes the acid is citrus- ascorbic acid) or there would need to be
more salt than is palatable in order to preserve so rinsing away a goodly
portion of the salt would be necessary before use. Some condiments are used
fresh; lemon/lime, or dried; cayenne. Grated hard cheese is indeed a
condiment... as are many dried herbs, fresh herbs too. Even potato chips and
pretzels can qualify as condiments. A kosher pickle contains no vinegar...
caviar neither. There are literally thousands of examples, I wont even go into
those condimants preserved with just sugar, even sugar itself, honey chile


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2003, 08:45 PM
Carnivore269
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Posts: n/a
Default Condiments - Vinegar

Frogleg wrote in message . ..
On 10 Oct 2003 09:57:22 -0700, (Carnivore269)
wrote:

Frogleg wrote
On 9 Oct 2003 13:15:24 -0700,
(xyz) wrote:

Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
alive.

A "condiment" is a spicy or savory compliment to foods. You can make
salad dressing and mayonnaise with lemon juice instead of vinegar, if
that pleases you. But most relishes, chutneys, and savory sauces
contain vinegar. For a reason, one assumes. I don't think there's any
chance of becoming "pickled" by a pickle (or smoked from eating lox,
or fried by a visit to KFC). Acidic ingredients (vinegar, wine,
citrus) are rather too common to avoid.


Sometimes tho', vinigar is _not_ a flavor I want.... so you just have
to read the bottles, or learn to make your own stuff.


I mis-spoke/mis-wrote "most...contain vinegar." I should have said
most contain acidic ingredients -- vinegar, citrus, etc. I have no
idea of the relative acidity of lemon juice as opposed to vinegar
(Barb?), but if the OP didn't want to be pickled from the inside,
he/she'd do well to stay away from lemonade, too. :-)

What *does* the "5% acidity" label on a bottle of kitchen vinegar mean
anyhow? 5% the strength of pure hydrochloric acid?


I do kinda wonder about the OP's concern for being "pickled". G
The human body is perfectly capable of handling acidic ingredients.
:-)
I just thought that I'd toss my favorite dressing out there for
review!

I've been in to meat salads lately. :-d

Some mornings when I have errands to run, I don't always have time to
cook so I'll hit HEB for their lemon pepper rotissery chickens! They
are sooooo good, but neither dad nor I like the breast meat much
straight as breast meat, no matter how it is cooked, tends to be a tad
bit dry... which is why I usually just use boneless/skinless thighs
for stir fry. But, I take the breast meat from the rotissery chickens
and make chicken salad out of it using dill relish, a bit more lemon
pepper, garlic powder, minced green onion, more dill relish and
MAYONAISA!!! :-)
The lime flavor in that dressing is OH so good in meat salads. I serve
that over a bed of baby spinach garnished on the side with fresh
avocado and tomatoe.

C.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2003, 12:20 AM
Pete Romfh
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Condiments - Vinegar

Frogleg wrote:

What *does* the "5% acidity" label on a bottle of kitchen
vinegar mean anyhow? 5% the strength of pure hydrochloric
acid?


It is the strength of 5% acetic acid. Pure white vinegar is basically acetic
acid and water. With the other versions there are numerous other compounds
that give them their distinctive character.

More info than you may really want to know at:
http://www.foodsubs.com/Vinegars.html

--
Pete Romfh, Telecom Geek & Amateur Gourmet.
promfh at Texas dot net


  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2003, 12:22 AM
Melba's Jammin'
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Condiments - Vinegar

In article , Frogleg
wrote:

On 10 Oct 2003 09:57:22 -0700, (Carnivore269)
wrote:

Frogleg wrote
On 9 Oct 2003 13:15:24 -0700,
(xyz) wrote:

Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
alive.

A "condiment" is a spicy or savory compliment to foods. You can make
salad dressing and mayonnaise with lemon juice instead of vinegar, if
that pleases you. But most relishes, chutneys, and savory sauces
contain vinegar. For a reason, one assumes. I don't think there's any
chance of becoming "pickled" by a pickle (or smoked from eating lox,
or fried by a visit to KFC). Acidic ingredients (vinegar, wine,
citrus) are rather too common to avoid.


Sometimes tho', vinigar is _not_ a flavor I want.... so you just have
to read the bottles, or learn to make your own stuff.


I mis-spoke/mis-wrote "most...contain vinegar." I should have said
most contain acidic ingredients -- vinegar, citrus, etc. I have no
idea of the relative acidity of lemon juice as opposed to vinegar
(Barb?), but if the OP didn't want to be pickled from the inside,
he/she'd do well to stay away from lemonade, too. :-)

What *does* the "5% acidity" label on a bottle of kitchen vinegar mean
anyhow? 5% the strength of pure hydrochloric acid?


Based on info regarding canning tomatoes, measure for measure, lemon
juice is more acidic than vinegar (the recommendation is to use 2 tbsp
lemon juice per quart or 4 tbsp of 5% acidity vinegar, or 1/2 tsp of
citric acid granules/powder). I'd never use vinegar for tomatoes --
that much will affect the flavor. And I'm not nuts about lemon juice,
either. I'm a happy user of citric acid when I need to acidify
something I'm canning.

That said, I've got a conserve on the stove right now that to which I've
added red wine vinegar. Hoo-hoo-hoo, this stuff is so good!
--
-Barb (
www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats tab)
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2003, 12:27 AM
Melba's Jammin'
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Condiments - Vinegar

In article , Blair P.
Houghton wrote:
(snip)
(Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.


If you're canning it, though, Blair, the tested and blessed recipes now
have some vinegar to guarantee a low enough pH level for safe waterbath
processing. Bob (zxcvbob) has made some and says it's not bad and
better than he expected. If I were going to can it, I'd use the vinegar
and perhaps add a **little** baking soda at serving time to de-acidify
it and make it not so tangy.
--
-Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats tab)
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2003, 12:44 AM
Jack Schidt®
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Condiments - Vinegar


"Melba's Jammin'" wrote in message
...
In article , Blair P.
Houghton wrote:
(snip)
(Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.


If you're canning it, though, Blair, the tested and blessed recipes now
have some vinegar to guarantee a low enough pH level for safe waterbath
processing. Bob (zxcvbob) has made some and says it's not bad and
better than he expected. If I were going to can it, I'd use the vinegar
and perhaps add a **little** baking soda at serving time to de-acidify
it and make it not so tangy.
--
-Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats tab)



I think if you want to skip the vinegar, freeze the salsa. Amen to vinegar
for canning (like I'm gonna argue with Mrs Gedney). How would lime juice
stack up though?

Jack pH


  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2003, 01:49 AM
Melba's Jammin'
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Condiments - Vinegar

In article , "Jack
Schidt®" wrote:

"Melba's Jammin'" wrote in message
...
In article , Blair P.
Houghton wrote:
(snip)
(Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.


If you're canning it, though, Blair, the tested and blessed recipes now
have some vinegar to guarantee a low enough pH level for safe waterbath
processing. Bob (zxcvbob) has made some and says it's not bad and
better than he expected. If I were going to can it, I'd use the
vinegar
and perhaps add a **little** baking soda at serving time to
de-acidify
it and make it not so tangy.
--
-Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats
tab)



I think if you want to skip the vinegar, freeze the salsa. Amen to
vinegar
for canning (like I'm gonna argue with Mrs Gedney). How would lime juice
stack up though?

Jack pH


Good question. Lately I've been seeing conflicting info about fresh vs.
bottled lemon juices. USDA stuff specifies bottled for its uniform acid
level; a Sure€Jell leaflet I have consistently states fresh lemon juice.
I suspect that fresh probably has better flavor but the USDA is always
going to be conservative and err on the side of consistency and
standardization. Lime juice? As far as acidity, I don't know the
particulars. I use it in my Mango-Strawberry Jam with Kiwifruit because
I don't like the flavor that lemon juice adds. (That recipe, FWIW, also
uses citric acid -- long story skipped.)

Here's an excerpt from the U of NDak Extension Divn about making and
preserving salsa (paragraph breaks mine):

"Acid ingredients in canned salsa help preserve it. Additional acid --
bottled lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar -- is needed when canning
tomatoes because the natural acidity of tomatoes may be too low.
Low-acid ingredients in salsa, such as peppers and onions, also affect
the overall acidity level. Vinegar should be at least 5 percent acid.

You can substitute lemon or lime juice in a recipe calling for vinegar,
but do not substitute vinegar in a recipe calling for lemon or lime
juice.

Lemon or lime juice is more acidic than vinegar. Freshly squeezed lemon
or lime juice may be used in fresh salsa recipes but is not recommended
for use in canning recipes. "
--
-Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats tab)
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2003, 12:10 PM
Frogleg
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Condiments - Vinegar

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:27:09 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
(snip)
(Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.


If you're canning it, though, Blair, the tested and blessed recipes now
have some vinegar to guarantee a low enough pH level for safe waterbath
processing. Bob (zxcvbob) has made some and says it's not bad and
better than he expected. If I were going to can it, I'd use the vinegar
and perhaps add a **little** baking soda at serving time to de-acidify
it and make it not so tangy.


I make my salsa (not canned) with fancy-schmancy red wine vinegar in
place of lime juice because I like the flavor. Was it you, Barb, who
confessed to drinking the 'juice' at the bottom of the bowl like I do?
Ummm.
 




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