On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 02:16:14 GMT, Julia Altshuler
wrote:


Some of you gave me a choice between being interrupted while conversing
or not being able to find servers when they're needed. When you put it
that way, the interruption is preferable, but I think that's an unfair
choice. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, and I don't
believe getting it right requires supernatural mind reading powers. I'm
asking for common sense. The customers have ordered. They're half
through their meals. They're engaged in lively conversation. The
server comes to the table to fill water glasses. Common sense would
suggest that if the customers needed something, they'd ask the server
for it at that point without the server having to interrupt with the "is
everything O.K." question.

I'm seriously considering the suggestion to tell the server what my
definition of good service is when I sit down. "Hi, my idea of good
service is where you assume that I can read the menu for myself rather
than pointing out your suggestions to me, take the order, bring the
food, fill the water glass as needed and leave alone until you see that
we've stopped eating." I'm trying to practice that in my mind until it
sounds nice, rather than rude. I'll let you know it goes if/when I try it.

While I agree with all of your observations and dislikes, I
contend that the wait staff only is reflecting what
management expects (has trained) them to do. A place like
CPK needs a high table turnover to make a profit, so it's
probably their policy to abruptly ask if everything is okay
and get on with business.

FYI: I've eaten there exactly ONCE. It was in Santa
Barbara, so they should have been on their best behavior and
the food should have been at the top of the game, but I
absolutely HATED IT. I won't waste my money in any CPK
again. AFAIC, it's okay for teens and college aged people,
but if you're looking for prepared food or good service, you
can forget about it. Stick your with your local owner
operated pizzarias for better food and service.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:38:03 +1000, Craig Welch
shared the following:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:54:23 -0400, travis
wrote:

You know what drives me up the wall? The last two times I took my
wife out to dinner to have a nice meal, somebody else decided to try
to impress their business associate by taking them out to dinner and
sat at a table next to us and BLAH BLAH BLAHed about business stuff
the whole time we were trying to eat. I wish people who want to have
a business dinner would let the person seating them know what they're
up to so that they could be seated somewhere that would hopefully
isolate them from the rest of the patrons so that we don't have to
listen to them spew about how great the company is doing and how their
fancy company car rides so smooth and all that crap. Sorry to rant.
That kind of thing just really irks me.

I really don't follow you. I would if you were complaining that they
spoke too loud,

Sorry. I should have mentioned that in both instances they *did*
speak unnaturally loudly as if though they were somehow showing off.
BLAH BLAH OUR COMPANY IS GREAT AND MY COMPANY CAR IS THE BEST THERE IS
BLAH BLAH. Give me a break. Please. I'm not talking about lunch at
Golden Corral. I'm talking about in a nice, quiet restaraunt.

or shouted into their cell phones, or had screaming
children,

Please, let's not "go there" about the screaming children thing. :-)

or similar. But to complain about the *topic* of their
conversation is the silliest thing I've seen here yet.

Do you similarly not want adjoining diners to talk about politics or
religion?

I'd just like to be able to have my own quiet conversation with the
person I'm with, without intruding on other guests and would
appreciate the same courtesty from them. Yes, I similarly don't want
adjoining diners to talk about politics or religion or the bunion on
their foot of whatever if I have to hear it.


--
Travis
FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.


:wq!

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:22:37 +1300, Tigsnona
shared the following:


You know what drives me up the wall? The last two times I took my
wife out to dinner to have a nice meal, somebody else decided to try
to impress their business associate by taking them out to dinner and
sat at a table next to us and BLAH BLAH BLAHed about business stuff
the whole time we were trying to eat. I wish people who want to have
a business dinner would let the person seating them know what they're
up to so that they could be seated somewhere that would hopefully
isolate them from the rest of the patrons so that we don't have to
listen to them spew about how great the company is doing and how their
fancy company car rides so smooth and all that crap. Sorry to rant.
That kind of thing just really irks me.

You find this odd?

Not odd. Rude.

I find this sort of experience is normal in the
USA - in restaurants, in aeorplanes, in public places of all sorts.
Americans talk about everything at the top of their voices and they
talk and talk and talk and talk.

If that happens to you everywhere you go in the USA then maybe you
should stay out of the USA. Simple. Effective. Everybody wins.


Try eating at a middle of the road English restaurant. Unless there
are Americans present, you won't get any of what you describe!


TigsNona

Yep. All of us Americans are rude pigs and you're much better than we
are. Thank you for clearing that up for me with your blanket,
worthless generalization. *rolls eyes back in head*



--
Travis
FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.


:wq!

(Renee)
wrote:

I think that I'd rather be bothered than be ignored. Happened to me
last night. I hated to do it, but after begging for my check and then
begging for my change, I simply left half of a torn dollar bill on the
table. I'm hoping the message was understood.

icu wrote ?:

That was cold.

We had a similar sort of experience today. It was a nice fall day and we
wanted to go out for drinks on the patio of a place we have gone to for years.
This is just a burger joint, but they play only classical music and their
burgers get high ratings by reviewers every year, it seems (Denver isn't the
burger town, for sure). As we ordered our last drink we asked for our bill.
When the drink (we split a last beer) arrived, so did the bill, so I put out a
twenty and the waitress said she'd be back with change. She never came back,
although we saw other waiters going to and fro. We thought the shift had
changed or something. I said we should just go inside to the bar on our way
out and ask for our change. My husband said he'd go inside and take care of
it. He came back to the patio after 10 or so minutes. Our waitress had been
sitting at the bar talking to a friend or someone, and apparently two other men
were in line before my husband with some sort of similar complaint. Then we
had to wait another 10 minutes for our waitress to return with our change. She
gave us an abrupt apology and was off. We usually tip 20% even for drinks
alone, but I left one dollar, which was less than 10%.

We will go back there as we just like the place and usually have no problem
with service.

Yeah, Mr. Schidt, I'm sure you've been there before.

rharps.com

In article , Dog3
wrote:
(snip)
Now, what bothers me in some upscale restaurants here is the
suffocation of perfect service. A few months ago I went to an
acclaimed restaurant in St. Louis which my family has frequented for
years. I swear, if I even look like I'm pulling out a cigarette a
waiter shows up with a lighter to light it.

You smoke? I'll bet your cardiologist loves that. "-)
Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
my plate. It made me nervous.
--
-Barb

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
my plate. It made me nervous.

(laugh) I took my ex inlaws out to a fancy restaurant that had a
smorgasbord (sp) every Friday night. Well, you never saw the waiters,
but every time you went back up for more food, you'd come back to
a clean, perfectly set table, with your linen napkin folded into
some fancy shape. Finally my conservative mil pipes up, I think the
waiter has a napkin fetish. I almost fell off my chair laughing.

It was kinda weird like you were being stalked, like you were under
scrutiny. No, I am so not complaining, that's good service.

nancy

Nancy Young writes:
(laugh) I took my ex inlaws out to a fancy restaurant that had a
smorgasbord (sp) every Friday night. Well, you never saw the waiters,
but every time you went back up for more food, you'd come back to
a clean, perfectly set table, with your linen napkin folded into
some fancy shape. Finally my conservative mil pipes up, I think the
waiter has a napkin fetish. I almost fell off my chair laughing.

I had a hotel experience like that once, in that the room service was
very fast, very good, and very opportunistic... you wouldn't see them,
and they wouldn't knock on your door, but if you stepped out for as
little as five minutes (literally, I went to go grab a newspaper over
in the lobby), you'd come back to a room with fresh linens, a clean
and dry bathroom, vacuumed carpet, etc. A perfectly clean room.
Indeed, the first time it happened, I thought I had come back to the
wrong room, but there was my stuff, exactly where I left it[1]. I'm
still not sure how they pulled that off. I was tempted one morning to
do a setup to watch them work, but had other obligations.

This was in a resort hotel in Jackson Hole, WY. They got a good tip.

[1] I also like room service staff that knows not to mess with my
stuff---if I leave everything spread around so they can't clean, then
that's my problem.

--
Richard W Kaszeta

http://www.kaszeta.org/rich

"Dog3" wrote in message
6...
sf deliciously posted in
:

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:42:30 GMT, Dog3
wrote:


I don't think courtesy was the issue here. The original poster did
not want to be interrupted while engaged in conversation. I'd wager
there are few waitperons that have time to stand and watch one table
for a lull in conversation before checking back.

If they were well trained, they wouldn't need to wait for a
lull in the conversation and they would NEVER use that
phrase.

What phrase would you suggest? The diners closed their mouths for 10
seconds? So, how does one train waitstaff to find a time when the diners
are not engaged in some sort of conversation to check back? Then of
course
there are the diners that say nothing during a meal and resent the check
back intrusion, on and on and on. If a person wants no interaction with
wait staff there is no point in dining out; Unless of course the entire
staff has been alerted prior to your visit. Quite frankly, in my
experience, the experienced diner has no qualm with the restaurant's
training. The diner is there to enjoy the food and the experience. The
waitstaff is part of that experience. If you don't want the social
interaction with waitstaff, go to one of those homestyle buffets where
wait
staff is very scarce.

Michael


"Social interaction with waitstaff?" Are you joking? I most certainly do
*not* want any social interaction with them - rather I want a professional
waiter-diner interaction. The idea of interacting socially with the waiter
reminds me of the places were he will sit or crouch at your table, tell you
his name, and get all pally. Pul-lease!

If a waiter wants to check up on you there's no need to interrupt. All he
needs to do is come over and stand expectantly where he can be seen, saying
nothing. The diners can ignore him and continue with the conversation or
not, as they choose.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:35:45 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
wrote:


"Social interaction with waitstaff?" Are you joking? I most certainly do
*not* want any social interaction with them - rather I want a professional
waiter-diner interaction. The idea of interacting socially with the waiter
reminds me of the places were he will sit or crouch at your table, tell you
his name, and get all pally. Pul-lease!

Reminds me of the places that have the server introduce themself and
write thier name on the table. I always take the crayon and write my
name and pass it along to the other guests. THERE!!! We're all
friends now. Can we get to the meal part? lol

Gar

In article , Richard Kaszeta
wrote:
(snip)
I had a hotel experience like that once, in that the room service was
very fast, very good, and very opportunistic... you wouldn't see them,
and they wouldn't knock on your door, but if you stepped out for as
little as five minutes (literally, I went to go grab a newspaper over
in the lobby), you'd come back to a room with fresh linens, a clean
and dry bathroom, vacuumed carpet, etc. A perfectly clean room.
Indeed, the first time it happened, I thought I had come back to the
wrong room, but there was my stuff, exactly where I left it[1]. I'm
still not sure how they pulled that off. I was tempted one morning to
do a setup to watch them work, but had other obligations.

This was in a resort hotel in Jackson Hole, WY. They got a good tip.

[1] I also like room service staff that knows not to mess with my
stuff---if I leave everything spread around so they can't clean, then
that's my problem.

Drifting sideways from the original post here, Rich: I stayed in a
hotel and when I returned to my cleaned room, I wasn't 100% sure it had
been cleaned. I asked at the desk and was told that if I'd left any
personal items (clothing) about, they would work around it and would not
touch my personal things. I think I'd left something on the bed.
Shoot, it was okay with me if they folded my clothes. :-)

On topically:

{ Masterfully and Mystically Exported from MasterCook Mac }

Doubletree Hotel Chocolate Chip Cookies

Recipe By: somebody named Todd Wilbur
Serving Size: 1
Preparation Time: 0:00
Categories: Cookies

Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
1/2 cup rolled oats
2 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
1 1/2 teaspoons baking soda
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon cinnamon
1 cup butter softened
3/4 cup packed brown sugar
3/4 cup sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons vanilla
1/2 teaspoon lemon juice
2 eggs
3 cups semi-sweet chocolate chips
1 1/2 cups chopped walnuts

Preheat oven to 350 degrees.

Grind oats in a food processor or blender until fine. Combine the
ground oats with the flour, baking soda, salt, and cinnamon in a medium
bowl.

Cream together the butter, sugars, vanilla, and lemon juice in
another medium bowl with an electric mixer. Add the eggs and mix until
smooth.

Stir the dry mixture into the wet mixture and blend well. Add
the chocolate chips and nuts to the dough and mix by hand until
ingredients are well incorporated.

Spoon rounded 1/4-cup portions onto an ungreased cookie sheet. Place the
scoops about 2 inches apart. You don't need to press the dough flat.

Bake for 16 to 18 minutes or until cookies are light brown and soft in
the middle.

Store in a sealed container when cool to keep soft.

For the best results, chill the dough overnight in the refrigerator
before baking the cookies.

----------
Notes: Posted to r.f.c. by Minnie )

Per serving (excluding unknown items): 5296 Calories; 303g Fat (50%
calories from fat); 96g Protein; 579g Carbohydrate; 921mg Cholesterol;
6072mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 17 Starch/Bread; 7 1/2 Lean Meat; 10 Fruit; 55 Fat; 21
Other Carbohydrates
_____
--
-Barb

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:40:33 -0400, Dave Smith
wrote:

Craig Welch wrote:


What if the table is enganged in conversation, though?

They wait for a couple of moments. A lull in the conversation will
follow. At that juncture, they can make their request. It's not that
difficult, really.

They might also try using the words "excuse me". :-)

quoted comment -- a busy server doesn't have time to hang around
(which would surely be interpreted as eavesdropping) waiting for a
conversational pause. last comment: I agree.

Nancy Young wrote in
:

Rhonda Anderson wrote:

A group of us had to go to Canberra for a conference a couple of
weeks away. First night there we went to an Irish pub for dinner
where they used the system where you order at the counter and are
given a number to take back to your table so they know where to bring
the food.

Yuck, I hate it. I expect service like that from a fast food place.
I go to a restaurant, I want to sit down and have someone take my
order. No, I wouldn't go there again. Talk about impersonal.


The number system is quite common here now in coffee shop type places and
pubs etc. I wouldn't expect it in a nice restaurant, of course. It's an
improvement over the system in place in many pubs/club bistros where there
is no table service at all. You get given a number, and you need to either
keep an ear out for that number being called, or keep an eye on the screen
where the numbers flash up - then you go to collect the meal. Have been to
one pub bistro where they gave you a pager, and when your meal was ready to
collect the pager went off (vibrated, from memory, I don't think it beeped)
- that was better in that you couldn't really miss it, and your attention
didn't have to be away from the table.

I wouldn't expect any more table service than the take the number to the
table sort in a pub or club here. It's bistro food usually, fairly
inexpensive, but often very good basic fare. The food at the place in
Canberra was certainly tasty. That pub is a decent size, and you can eat
your meal at any of the tables within the pub, which is sort of divided
into separate rooms. I would imagine it would be quite difficult to have
full table service where you can't even see if people have arrived or not,
or whether they're just there to drink or to eat as well.

--
Rhonda Anderson
Penrith, NSW, Australia

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:44:48 -0400, Nancy Young
wrote:

Rhonda Anderson wrote:

A group of us had to go to Canberra for a conference a couple of weeks
away. First night there we went to an Irish pub for dinner where they used
the system where you order at the counter and are given a number to take
back to your table so they know where to bring the food.

Yuck, I hate it. I expect service like that from a fast food place.
I go to a restaurant, I want to sit down and have someone take my
order. No, I wouldn't go there again. Talk about impersonal.

What do we go to restaurants for? Uninterrupted conversation? A
genteel social occasion? Super food? Convenience? There are bezillions
of restaurants that feature meals on paper plates, or famously rude
personnel (some deli in NYC comes to mind) but superior pastrami, or
waiters on rollerskates as entertainment, or cheap family meal
specials, or uniformly reliable chain food, or the ultimate gourmet
experience with 'European' service (on a good night).

Years ago, I got really tired of restaurants with salad bars -- I
don't want to stand in line with a plate; I want someone to serve me a
salad. When I go through a fast food drive-in lane, I want cheap,
*fast* food. When I pay $50 for a meal, I want food I can't/don't cook
at home, and a waiter who will retrieve a dropped napkin in under a
minute. If a 'soup nazi' offers a product I enjoy, I can decide
whether I want to stand in line for the soup.

We can read the reviews and get recommendations from friends. It'd be
nice if Burger King's 99-cent specials were served with perfect
gentility. Not likely to happen. (Can you say "minimum wage"?)

I don't want to grill my own steak, construct my own salad, have
waitstaff sing 'Happy Birthday', or play violins at my table. I
rarely, if ever, can afford celebrated 'fine dining' experiences, so I
go for pretty good food I don't have to prepare, at a reasonable
price. 'Take a number' sounds fair to me.

Hark! I heard Melba's Jammin' say:
In article , Dog3
wrote:

(snip)
Now, what bothers me in some upscale restaurants here is the
suffocation of perfect service. A few months ago I went to an
acclaimed restaurant in St. Louis which my family has frequented for
years. I swear, if I even look like I'm pulling out a cigarette a
waiter shows up with a lighter to light it.

You smoke? I'll bet your cardiologist loves that. "-)
Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
my plate. It made me nervous.

Funny, I'm just the opposite about that -- Hubby and I went to Ruth's
Chris Steak House in Seattle a couple of years ago:

http://www.ruthschris.com/

I didn't get all that excited about the food (they cut their filets
too thick, IMHO), but the wait staff was top notch. When they weren't
actively waiting a table, they were watching the dining area, looking
for someone who might need something. I loved having my water refilled
repeatedly without having to ask. Though I guess the "plate removal"
thing Barb mentioned would get annoying after a while. I'd probably
start teasing the waiter -- you know, almost put the fork down, but
not quite; put it down them pick it up as soon as he walked over. No
wonder Dad says I'm evil... ;-)


--
j*ni p. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~
...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

"j*ni p." wrote in message
...
Hark! I heard Melba's Jammin' say:
In article , Dog3
wrote:

(snip)
Now, what bothers me in some upscale restaurants here is the
suffocation of perfect service. A few months ago I went to an
acclaimed restaurant in St. Louis which my family has frequented for
years. I swear, if I even look like I'm pulling out a cigarette a
waiter shows up with a lighter to light it.

You smoke? I'll bet your cardiologist loves that. "-)
Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
my plate. It made me nervous.

Funny, I'm just the opposite about that -- Hubby and I went to Ruth's
Chris Steak House in Seattle a couple of years ago:

http://www.ruthschris.com/

I didn't get all that excited about the food (they cut their filets
too thick, IMHO), but the wait staff was top notch. When they weren't
actively waiting a table, they were watching the dining area, looking
for someone who might need something. I loved having my water refilled
repeatedly without having to ask. Though I guess the "plate removal"
thing Barb mentioned would get annoying after a while. I'd probably
start teasing the waiter -- you know, almost put the fork down, but
not quite; put it down them pick it up as soon as he walked over. No
wonder Dad says I'm evil... ;-)


These's a long-standing rule of etiquette that deals with this situation
perfectly. Fork and knife at an angle on the plate (at 4 and 8 o'clock e.g.)
means you are still eating. Fork and knife together, next to one another,
you are done. THis seems to have gone out of vogue because it is amazing how
few people and waiters know about it.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.