On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:08:19 -0800, Koko
wrote:


I am the grateful recipient of a couple of persimmons. I don't believe
I have ever had one. What do you do with them? Can they be added to
cooked dishes? or just eaten when ripe. How can you tell they are
ripe.

http://i17.tinypic.com/3zbsro2.jpg
o.k. I know it looks like a cheap trick to try tinypic for the first
time ;-) hope I did it right.

I was excited to see an article about them in Saveur magazine until I
read it. "Massaging the Persimmon"
It's about making hoshi gaki.
It's a Japanese massaged dried persimmon. (now quoting from the
article) It turns out that Japanese villagers have hung persimmons to
dry in the autumn air, massaging them to keep them soft.
First, the fruit is peeled, trimmed, and hung from a string over a
bamboo pole. The the persimmons are given a light fingertip massage
every other day for up to five weeks until they develop a tender
consistency. As the fruit is massaged, fructose rises to the surface
in a frostlike bloom that looks like powdered sugar, the process
yields a chewy fruit with a deep, concentrated persimmon flavor that's
slightly sweeter than a dried fig.
I looked it up, they sell for $28.00 a pound.

Thanks for any ideas

Koko
A Yuman being on the net
(posting from San Diego)


My DIL brought me about 15 pounds of Fuyu persimmons. I dehydrated
some and made jam out of some others. I still have some mashed up
fruit in the freezer.

It was my first time for persimmons.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974

On 9 Dec 2006 15:56:06 -0600, "Bob Terwilliger"
wrote:

Ken replied:

I agree, there is a BIG difference. I'll let you or Koko go to this
site and see what type she has: http://www.itopack.com/persimmons.htm

True enough, and better safe than sorry. Koko's picture showed persimmons
that looked more round than pointed at the bottom, but that might have been
the perspective. It's easy enough to determine, though, just taste a tiny
bit. If your mouth puckers immediately, they're Hachiyas.

If they DO turn out to be Hachiyas, then Ken's earlier advice was correct,
they need to soften to mush. At that point, they can be made into cookies,
sorbets, and other desserts. I'm not aware of any savory uses for Hachiya
persimmons, although now that I think about it, I bet a persimmon ketchup
would be pretty darn good, and a breeze to make. Googling... I don't see any
recipes, but a restaurant within striking distance of me serves a persimmon
ketchup with their bison burger. Maybe I'll try it sometime. Similarly, it
wouldn't be too difficult to come up with a persimmon sauce for poultry or
pork; I've got a recipe for Moroccan carrot sauce which would work well if
persimmons were substituted for the carrots.

Bob


Thank you gentlemen, they are Hachiyas. Wow!! I'm really getting a
good persimmon lesson, thanks to your contributions.

I'll just keep them in the basket on the counter and wait for mush ;-)

I just knew I could get my answer here.

Koko

A Yuman being on the net
(posting from San Diego)

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 18:36:42 -0800, Koko
wrote:

I'll just keep them in the basket on the counter and wait for mush ;-)

I just knew I could get my answer here.

The pureed persimmons also freeze extremely well..in case you don't
get around to using it right away....
I sometimes have a container of it in the freezer, to fix stuff at my
leisure.

Unfortunately, here in NM, the persimmons are expensive...and very far
from ripe.

Christine

On 9 Dec 2006 10:52:20 -0800, "Ken"
wrote:


Koko wrote:
I am the grateful recipient of a couple of persimmons. I don't believe
I have ever had one. What do you do with them? Can they be added to
cooked dishes? or just eaten when ripe. How can you tell they are
ripe.

Koko,

In case you're wondering about the two types of persimmons, the Hachiya
and Fuyu persimmons, and why it came up, there's a lot o' difference.


The Fuyu is often eaten out of hand, like a peach or apple. They're
drier than a peach, and much softer than an apple. Something like an
Asian pear in texture, but not as grainy. I love them on my morning
oatmeal. These are usually eaten when still hard, but are still good
if they get soft.

The Hachiya are the large ones often used for baking, and this is the
variety you'll see most often in the stores. Where I live, you have to
know where to find the Fuyus, but the Hachiyas are common. It's the
Hachiyas that have the alum and should be left to get soft if you're
going to eat them raw.

I previously posted a site that shows both side by side. I say you
have the Hachiya. The Fuyu are like a stepped on mini pumpkin. The
Hachiya are like an overgrown acorn.

Persimmon cookies/cakes/bars are a tradition around the holidays and
are delicious.

Hope this helps a little more.

Ken

Thank you for the site that shows both persimmons. I do have the
Hachiyas and will be following your earlier advice.

You and Bob are a couple of classy guys. Thanks for your help

Koko
A Yuman being on the net
(posting from San Diego)

Christine Dabney wrote:
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 18:36:42 -0800, Koko
wrote:

I'll just keep them in the basket on the counter and wait for mush ;-)

I just knew I could get my answer here.

The pureed persimmons also freeze extremely well..in case you don't
get around to using it right away....
I sometimes have a container of it in the freezer, to fix stuff at my
leisure.


Hmmm--persimmon margaritas or daiquiris sound really yummy.

gloria p

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 02:51:58 GMT, Puester
wrote:

Christine Dabney wrote:
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 18:36:42 -0800, Koko
wrote:

I'll just keep them in the basket on the counter and wait for mush ;-)

I just knew I could get my answer here.

The pureed persimmons also freeze extremely well..in case you don't
get around to using it right away....
I sometimes have a container of it in the freezer, to fix stuff at my
leisure.


Hmmm--persimmon margaritas or daiquiris sound really yummy.

gloria p

OH Yeeeahh!!!

Koko
A Yuman being on the net
(posting from San Diego)

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 19:39:25 -0700, Christine Dabney
wrote:

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 18:36:42 -0800, Koko
wrote:

I'll just keep them in the basket on the counter and wait for mush ;-)

I just knew I could get my answer here.

The pureed persimmons also freeze extremely well..in case you don't
get around to using it right away....
I sometimes have a container of it in the freezer, to fix stuff at my
leisure.

Unfortunately, here in NM, the persimmons are expensive...and very far
from ripe.

Christine

I was fortunate enough to have them given to me. Yes, still far from
ripe

Koko
A Yuman being on the net
(posting from San Diego)

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 18:36:42 -0800, Koko
wrote:

Thank you gentlemen, they are Hachiyas. Wow!! I'm really getting a
good persimmon lesson, thanks to your contributions.

I'll just keep them in the basket on the counter and wait for mush ;-)

I just knew I could get my answer here.

I was *finally* able to get the image just now.... yes, they are
hachiyas - and they look fully ripe to me. So, use them now. I love
just standing over the sink and eating them. Some people use a spoon,
I just bite.... but some people peel peaches too - I don't.

In any case, I strongly suggest that you just experience eating a
plain persimmon before you cook with it. You're throwing away a great
eating experience if you don't.




--
See return address to reply by email

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
Ken replied:

I agree, there is a BIG difference. I'll let you or Koko go to this
site and see what type she has: http://www.itopack.com/persimmons.htm

True enough, and better safe than sorry. Koko's picture showed persimmons
that looked more round than pointed at the bottom, but that might have been
the perspective. It's easy enough to determine, though, just taste a tiny
bit. If your mouth puckers immediately, they're Hachiyas.

If they DO turn out to be Hachiyas, then Ken's earlier advice was correct,
they need to soften to mush.

Actually, they don't. A way to ripen them without that water
balloon feel was pioneered by the Japanese. They put them
into barrels that had been used for making sake. The wood
holds alcohol that, when the barrels are closed, displaces
the air. The persimmons ripen in the absence of air. A more
practical way to do it at home is to wrap them in two
separate thicknesses of plastic wrap and hold them at about
100F for 24 or more hours. The combination of anaerobic
environment and heat ripens the persimmons without making
them mushy. Sometimes they need a bit more time, and I've
done some for as long as 72 hours if they were especially
unripe. This is for hachiyas. Fuyus don't need this treatment.

Pastorio

Bob Pastorio wrote:

Actually, they don't. A way to ripen them without that water balloon feel
was pioneered by the Japanese. They put them into barrels that had been
used for making sake. The wood holds alcohol that, when the barrels are
closed, displaces the air. The persimmons ripen in the absence of air. A
more practical way to do it at home is to wrap them in two separate
thicknesses of plastic wrap and hold them at about 100F for 24 or more
hours. The combination of anaerobic environment and heat ripens the
persimmons without making them mushy. Sometimes they need a bit more time,
and I've done some for as long as 72 hours if they were especially unripe.
This is for hachiyas. Fuyus don't need this treatment.

Since I don't have a yogurt maker, the only common apparatus which springs
to mind for keeping them at that temperature for such a length of time is a
cheap heating pad (without an automatic shut-off). Or I suppose someone
could rig a small box with a light bulb to achieve that environment, too.
But that's probably too much trouble for Koko's two persimmons.

Bob

On 10 Dec 2006 03:46:01 -0600, "Bob Terwilliger"
wrote:

Bob Pastorio wrote:

Actually, they don't. A way to ripen them without that water balloon feel
was pioneered by the Japanese. They put them into barrels that had been
used for making sake. The wood holds alcohol that, when the barrels are
closed, displaces the air. The persimmons ripen in the absence of air. A
more practical way to do it at home is to wrap them in two separate
thicknesses of plastic wrap and hold them at about 100F for 24 or more
hours. The combination of anaerobic environment and heat ripens the
persimmons without making them mushy. Sometimes they need a bit more time,
and I've done some for as long as 72 hours if they were especially unripe.
This is for hachiyas. Fuyus don't need this treatment.

Since I don't have a yogurt maker, the only common apparatus which springs
to mind for keeping them at that temperature for such a length of time is a
cheap heating pad (without an automatic shut-off). Or I suppose someone
could rig a small box with a light bulb to achieve that environment, too.
But that's probably too much trouble for Koko's two persimmons.

That's way too much work for me. A couple of days on the windowsill
will do it; except hers looked ripe to me. A gentle squeeze will tell
her if they are soft enough and of course, the proof is in the eating.
If the pulp has a jellylike look (shiny) and tastes sweet, it's
perfect.

--
See return address to reply by email

sf wrote:
On 10 Dec 2006 03:46:01 -0600, "Bob Terwilliger"
wrote:

Bob Pastorio wrote:

Actually, they don't. A way to ripen them without that water balloon feel
was pioneered by the Japanese. They put them into barrels that had been
used for making sake. The wood holds alcohol that, when the barrels are
closed, displaces the air. The persimmons ripen in the absence of air. A
more practical way to do it at home is to wrap them in two separate
thicknesses of plastic wrap and hold them at about 100F for 24 or more
hours. The combination of anaerobic environment and heat ripens the
persimmons without making them mushy. Sometimes they need a bit more time,
and I've done some for as long as 72 hours if they were especially unripe.
This is for hachiyas. Fuyus don't need this treatment.

Since I don't have a yogurt maker, the only common apparatus which springs
to mind for keeping them at that temperature for such a length of time is a
cheap heating pad (without an automatic shut-off). Or I suppose someone
could rig a small box with a light bulb to achieve that environment, too.
But that's probably too much trouble for Koko's two persimmons.

Oven with the heat off. Top of the fridge. Front of a heater
vent. Under your arm.

That's way too much work for me. A couple of days on the windowsill
will do it; except hers looked ripe to me. A gentle squeeze will tell
her if they are soft enough and of course, the proof is in the eating.
If the pulp has a jellylike look (shiny) and tastes sweet, it's
perfect.

I don't like that mouthfeel. I prefer them to be firmer,
more like an actual fruit than pulpy and near-liquid.

Ripening them with plastic wrap lets them ripen fully and
still be firm to the bite. The heat component accelerates
the ripening, but if you leave them at room temp, they'll
still ripen firm, just more slowly.

Pastorio

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:57:46 -0800, sf wrote:

On 10 Dec 2006 03:46:01 -0600, "Bob Terwilliger"
wrote:

Bob Pastorio wrote:

Actually, they don't. A way to ripen them without that water balloon feel
was pioneered by the Japanese. They put them into barrels that had been
used for making sake. The wood holds alcohol that, when the barrels are
closed, displaces the air. The persimmons ripen in the absence of air. A
more practical way to do it at home is to wrap them in two separate
thicknesses of plastic wrap and hold them at about 100F for 24 or more
hours. The combination of anaerobic environment and heat ripens the
persimmons without making them mushy. Sometimes they need a bit more time,
and I've done some for as long as 72 hours if they were especially unripe.
This is for hachiyas. Fuyus don't need this treatment.

Since I don't have a yogurt maker, the only common apparatus which springs
to mind for keeping them at that temperature for such a length of time is a
cheap heating pad (without an automatic shut-off). Or I suppose someone
could rig a small box with a light bulb to achieve that environment, too.
But that's probably too much trouble for Koko's two persimmons.

That's way too much work for me. A couple of days on the windowsill
will do it; except hers looked ripe to me. A gentle squeeze will tell
her if they are soft enough and of course, the proof is in the eating.
If the pulp has a jellylike look (shiny) and tastes sweet, it's
perfect.

They still feel quite firm. Only a couple of places that yield a
little to the touch up toward the stem end.
Dang!!! I hope I ripen them right.

I'm starting to get persimmon anxiety. I think I need a drink

Koko

A Yuman being on the net
(posting from San Diego)

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:02:21 -0800, Koko
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:57:46 -0800, sf wrote:



A couple of days on the windowsill
will do it; except hers looked ripe to me. A gentle squeeze will tell
her if they are soft enough and of course, the proof is in the eating.
If the pulp has a jellylike look (shiny) and tastes sweet, it's
perfect.

They still feel quite firm. Only a couple of places that yield a
little to the touch up toward the stem end.
Dang!!! I hope I ripen them right.

I'm starting to get persimmon anxiety. I think I need a drink

You're going to be ok Koko.... we'll talk you though it.

LOL


--
See return address to reply by email

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:12:55 -0800, sf wrote:

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:02:21 -0800, Koko
wrote:

I'm starting to get persimmon anxiety. I think I need a drink

You're going to be ok Koko.... we'll talk you though it.

LOL

But have a drink anyway....

Christine