On 2005-06-07, Emil wrote:
If there is a Meat shop Grocery store with real meat cutters you may be able
to get them to sharpen your knife for a small fee. Make sure they DO NOT
use a electric grinder type of stone. A hand stone only.

These places are extremely rare. Most supermarket butcher depts have a
buncha hacks on motorized sharpeners or send their knives out to pros.
I gave my brother a Wusthof oriental chef's knife for his birthday and
he later took it to a supermarket that offered sharpening service for
free. He got it back with a 1" long, 1/8" deep, reverse curve gouged into the
blade back by the heel. You get what you pay for.

nb

Louis Cohen wrote:
I use a 2-sided stone, medium and fine, from the hardware store. I
soak it in water before and after using it each time. This is the
lowest-cost, lowest tech, most traditional solution. I don't get a
shaving edge, but, then, I don't shave in the kitchen. The knives do
go through tomatoes very nicely, and seem to hold their edges pretty
well.

You may want to practice with some of your less-favorite knives first.

Good idea to practice on ones klunkier knives.

For a novice they may want to first paint the knife edge with machinist
layout blue, will indicate where they've been and where they're going.

I find that most often a few licks with a stone is all that's
necessary, and water stones are clean and fast. But for a razor edge
an oil stone can't be beat.

Another technique is to tape a sheet of wet-dry polishing paper to a
flat surface... polishing paper is available in various grits from any
automotive parts store. Squirt with water or kerosene and use the same
as a whet stone... the beauty is in how the paper never goes off flat
(does not become concave/convex) and is cheap to replace with a fresh
surface.

For most kitchen chores a razor sharp edge is way over the top,
especially for slicing veggies. But for serious meat cutting I like as
sharp an edge as possible. Also, for those times a knife is badly
dulled or knicked I would opt for filing, a bench vice with soft jaws
to secure the blade and a few licks with a high speed machinists file
will remove metal effortlessly, evenly, and without fear of
overheating... use a smooth cut file and the "draw filing" technique
(very precise). Then dress up the edge with the stone. For lawnmower
blades I reverse the process; quickly remove mangled metal first with
the bench grinder and then dress the edge with the file... no need for
a honed edge for mowing grass, in fact the idea is to actually dull the
edge with about a 1/32" flat... too sharp an edge will roll over...
remember, a lawnmower blade tip smacks into grass at about the velocity
of a 30 caliber bullet from a high powered rifle, to the lawnmower
blade that blade of grass becomes a 2 x 4. I have two triple blade
rotary mowers, sharpening the blades myself much more than pays for the
cost of equipment... and by my method I can get about 50 sharpenings,
the so-called professional in town gets maybe 6 sharpenings before I
need to buy new blades. A decent 10" bench grinder runs about $300,
but more than pays it's own way in one summer of mower blade
sharpening.

Little bit on draw filing:
http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDo...r_on_Files.htm

Hint: When filing metal, especially draw filing, it's beneficial to rub
the file with ordinary chalk, prevents teeth clogging.

I can sharpen a knife better with only a file than most people can with
the most expensive/sophisticated machinery... and so can you with a
little practice.

Sheldon

"Rick Rider" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:16:25 GMT, Rick Rider
wrote:



If you were to buy a new sharpener what kind would it be?



To follow up -

I am going to get a set of stones, I can use them anywhere.....

For the kitchen, get a longer stone than you might otherwise choose. When
sharpening, you'll probably want to brace its narrow end against the
backsplash of the counter, and if it's too short, you won't get enough
"travel" with each stroke before bumping your hand or the knife into the
backsplash.

Rick Rider wrote:

I tried to look in the FAQ but the link to the FAQ I had
http://vsack.bei.t-online.de/rfc_faq.html
only took my to a German language page.

The FAQ is now at http://vsack.homepage.t-online.de/rfc_faq.html
and has been there for some time.

In section 10.4 (Miscellaneous), you will find a link to the Sharpening
FAQ by Joe Talmadge, at
http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqsharp.shtml.

Victor

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Rick Rider" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:16:25 GMT, Rick Rider
wrote:



If you were to buy a new sharpener what kind would it be?



To follow up -

I am going to get a set of stones, I can use them anywhere.....

For the kitchen, get a longer stone than you might otherwise choose. When
sharpening, you'll probably want to brace its narrow end against the
backsplash of the counter, and if it's too short, you won't get enough
"travel" with each stroke before bumping your hand or the knife into the
backsplash.


Or look for a stone mounted in a bracket that has a non-skid base.


--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

Hi All, I'll also second the recommendation for the Lansky Type, and
the Spyderco Sharpmaker, I use them both.

Yes, Stones both artificial, and natural can be used in conjunction with
one another to develop a razor sharp edge, but the problems with stones,
is that most inexperienced people do not know how to properly use a
stone, and even the adept-experienced cannot repeatably slide a knife
over a stone at the exact same angle for every stroke.

When using a stone, the proper method is to draw the knife across the
stone in an X pattern from heel to tip, flipping, and alternating sides,
and in effect simulate trying to cut a very thin slice off the stone,
like you're slicing off a paper thin slice off a Roast Beef. The
incorrect way, is to drag the knife across the stone in a similar
fashion that a Barber wipes a straight razor across a Leather Strop.

Sharpeners like the Lansky duplicate the exact same angle on every
stroke, as the blade is clamped in a vise jig, achieving a perfect
factory type edge every time. The one I have came with 5 stones from
Extra Coarse to Fine ($30 from a Sportmart in Chicago)
I then touch up with the Spyderco Sharpmaker, and assure you, they will
shave without cream!

Once an established 20 degree angle is set on your knife, they only need
periodic touch up with medium, and fine stones from time to time, to
bring them back to razor sharpness, so you won't have to repeatedly have
to use either the coarse, or extra coarse stones, and be removing a lot
of metal from the blade. (Also 25, or 17 degree selection is achievable
on the Lansky but the former is good for camp knifes, and the latter for
straight razors)

I typically use my Spyderco Sharpmaker (Ceramic Crock Sticks with
medium, and fine grit rods) for touch up, after the intial sharpening
with the Lansky Sharpener.

By using these manual Sharpeners I mention above, or some type of manual
Ceramic Crock Sticks, you will never damage a good knife blade due to
generated heat. Definitely, the Chef's Choice Grinders are not the way
to go for fine, expensive knifes. For the Pakistani Imitation Buck
Knifes, sure go ahead! lol

As for water stones, I've noticed the Japanese Sushi Chefs use these
with great success, and in many cases, these sushi knifes are extremely
expensive, exceeding the cost of even a Henckle's Chef Knife. Thier
knifes need to be straight razor sharp to effectively work. Mark

"Ken Davey" wrote in message
...
David Hare-Scott wrote:
"Rick Rider" wrote
in message
If you were to buy a new sharpener what kind would it be?

Flat carborundum stone with fine and coarse sides.

David
Get totally lost here (and maybe find *your* sharpening solution)
http://www.leevalley.com/home/Search.aspx?c=&action=n

Enjoy.
Ken.



A stone will sharpen a knife, chisel, plane, etc, why would I need any of
those gadgets?

David

wrote in message
...
The best sharpening tool (in my opinion) is a good stone, some oil or
water and your hand.

Yes, forget all the paraphenalia.

David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

"Ken Davey" wrote in message
...
David Hare-Scott wrote:
"Rick Rider" wrote
in message
If you were to buy a new sharpener what kind would it be?

Flat carborundum stone with fine and coarse sides.

David
Get totally lost here (and maybe find *your* sharpening solution)
http://www.leevalley.com/home/Search.aspx?c=&action=n

Enjoy.
Ken.



A stone will sharpen a knife, chisel, plane, etc, why would I need any of
those gadgets?

David



Which are you calling a gadget? This is a discussion about sharpening
knives.

"Mark D" wrote in message
...
Hi All, I'll also second the recommendation for the Lansky Type, and
the Spyderco Sharpmaker, I use them both.

Yes, Stones both artificial, and natural can be used in conjunction with
one another to develop a razor sharp edge, but the problems with stones,
is that most inexperienced people do not know how to properly use a
stone, and even the adept-experienced cannot repeatably slide a knife
over a stone at the exact same angle for every stroke.


snipped

And hence the beauty of the Edgepro. It sets and holds the precise angle for
you while giving you the choice of various stones.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

Peter Aitken wrote:
"Mark D" wrote in message
...
Hi All, I'll also second the recommendation for the Lansky Type, and
the Spyderco Sharpmaker, I use them both.

Yes, Stones both artificial, and natural can be used in conjunction with
one another to develop a razor sharp edge, but the problems with stones,
is that most inexperienced people do not know how to properly use a
stone, and even the adept-experienced cannot repeatably slide a knife
over a stone at the exact same angle for every stroke.


snipped

And hence the beauty of the Edgepro. It sets and holds the precise angle.

There is no "the precise angle"... do you really think a carrot cares
if it's sliced with the potato blade? duh

Blade geometry is theoretical and at best is theory within tolerance...
+/- 3=BA is perfectly acceptible and most anyone can learn to work
within a few degrees, a skilled person can easily maintain .5=BA with
unfailing repeatability... no amount of justifying micky mouse gadgetry
and its associated hyperbole can negate the fact that some folks simply
haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone, so they are who buy
the fercocktah gadgets and then spend more effort justifying than
learning to sharpen. To maintain *meaningful* precise geometry with
metal configuring one would need to invest many tens of thousands of
dollars in professional precision grinding/honing machinery, a few
hundred bucks gets you mere toys... and all for naught when after all
is done one puts the blade to a *hand held* burnishing steel (yes,
burnishing, that's the correct nomenclature for what is performed with
a knife steel). Skilled craftsmen sharpen all their single point
cutters themselves and with whetstones... do you really think a skilled
cabinetmaker sharpens a plane blade or chisel at the same "the precise
angle" for every application/every wood.... and if they're truly
skilled they'd never trust their personal hand tools to someone else to
maintain, let alone some fercocktah gadgetry.

My personal opinion is that if one hasn't the skill to properly sharpen
a blade freehend with a whetstone then they certainly haven't the skill
to wield said blade properly. Anyone with a bit of practice can learn
to achieve superiour results sharpening kitchen cutlery by hand with a
whetstone, certainly far better results than with any of those
fercocktah gadgets. And if you're a cheap ******* and don't want to
invest the $20-$30 for a decent whetstone than go to the auto parts
store and buy a few sheets of wet/dry paper (240, 320, 400 grit is a
good assortment). Next visit your local glass shop and ask if they'll
sell you a scrap of 3/8" plate glass, about 8" x 10" is fine... the
glass becomes your flat surface. With ordinary masking tape affix the
oxide paper to the glass... spritz with a little water and you're in
business for under $5. To hold your grinding plate firmly make a
little jig, simply hammer a couple of nails into a scrap of lumber so
their heds are slightly below your work surface and clamp it to a work
table. I prefer to use kerosene instead of water (actually I use
diesel fuel)... regardless, sharpening can get messy, so I do my
sharpening outdoors... real daylight is the best kind of light for
doing this type of work anyway. Anyone who says they do sharpening on
their kitchen counters has to have some really fercoctah counters...
makes me really wonder what those pinheads call sharp.

Sheldon

Sheldon wrote:

no amount of justifying micky mouse gadgetry
and its associated hyperbole can negate the fact that some folks simply
haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone, so they are who buy
the fercocktah gadgets and then spend more effort justifying than
learning to sharpen.


Which of your contradictory statements do you not understand?


jim

JimLame wrote:
Sheldon wrote:

no amount of justifying micky mouse gadgetry
and its associated hyperbole can negate the fact that some folks simply
haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone, so they are who buy
the fercocktah gadgets and then spend more effort justifying than
learning to sharpen.


Which of your contradictory statements do you not understand?

I made no contradiction, you functionally illiterate Jim Lame *******.

Sheldon

Sheldon, Your last post, although lengthy, and thorough didn't make
much sense to me, and I doubt anyone else.

I myself would NEVER take a good blade to sandpaper, and suggesting that
someone else should is bad advice IMO.

My suggestions, and recommendations for both the Lansky, and Spyderco
Sharpeners were sound, and these shapeners will permit anyone to become
an instant professional. Not everyone has the ability to shapen a blade
like a butcher who's been in business for years, nor do they really care
to learn either.

If you've never tried the two sharpeners I mentioned above, maybe you
should. Neither are "gadgets" as you describe, and your suggested
methods using kerosene, sandpaper, and a glass plate are poor at best.

Maybe, this method would be suitable for cheap, disposable knifes, but
doubtful if you'd have any success with a blade with a high Rockwell
Hardnes. My best friend ruined the edge of his Western Westmark Hunting
Knife using this method, a knife no longer made, and pretty valuable
also. I have the set of 3. With a value at about $600 for the set.

Also, it's doubtful, that anyone can repeatedly make a pass within 1/2
degree freehand without some sort of aid. I've seen cabinet makers
sharpen thier chisels with the aid of a coin to support the blade. I'll
agree with your statement though, that an all purpose knife will work
just fine, if the blade is at 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and even out to say 25
degrees. Nothing states a blade "Has' to be at an exact 20 degrees to
be shaving sharp.

Use whatever methods you feel work for you.
Mark

Sheldon wrote:

JimLame wrote:

Sheldon wrote:

no amount of justifying micky mouse gadgetry

and its associated hyperbole can negate the fact that some folks simply
haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone, so they are who buy
the fercocktah gadgets and then spend more effort justifying than
learning to sharpen.


Which of your contradictory statements do you not understand?


I made no contradiction, you functionally illiterate Jim Lame *******.

Sheldon


Yes you did you moronic mentalmidget:

some folks simply haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone

The key word is dexterity, moron, then couple that with:

than learning to sharpen.

Some may never have the dexterity to approach the use of a gadget.

Any words go over your head?


jim