"Chris Malcolm" wrote in message
...
In alt.support.diabetes Helen Back wrote:

Who do we believe, who do we take our advice from if there is so much
conflicting information?

Those whose predictions about what foods and behaviour will raise or
lower our BG actually works in practice. That's the beauty of having
your own BG meter. You can test out out your doctor's advice, a book's
advice, a web site's advice, the advice of someone on asd, and see who
gets it right most often. Cut right through all the endless "authority
wars" by experimental test.


That's why I am grateful for many people here in asd. If I had followed the
advice of my diabetes nurse, it would have been twice a day, two to three
days a week for the first two weeks!!

Thanks Chris ))

"krom" a écrit ...

"Kurt" wrote

ONly diet that wouldnt allow the foods allowed on atkins is a low fat
diet..which as we all know is bad for the joints

Well, count me not a member of that club because that's not something
I associate with low-fat eating. And to make that kind of
proclamation about low-fat diets is equally as wrong as saying that
eating low-carb and high-protein will blow out your kidneys.

My point is one doesnt eat bacon on a low fat diet but most all other
diets allow it..but when people mention atkins thats ALL they focus on.
As a weightlifter/bodybuilder for years and spendign much of my time in
those group years ago..untill they became about garbage and drugs...we
talked alot about the lie that protien will ruin the kidneys.
All the studies used to say it did harm was on near dead patients with
kidney problems so was much fighting about the issue but anyhoo..


and the rational approuch
would be changing from bad fats to healthier choices..

I did that years ago and still eat low-fat.

Why low fat?
Your brain and organsand eyes and joints need fat to function properly?
I can see limiting sat fats etc but i for one add fat to my diet in flax
oil in my protien shakes and fish oil caps before bed..
Maybe yer low fat is the same as my low carb and only are judged so by
people unwilling to see in shades other then black and white?
I cant imagine you are truely low fat..especially since u mention peanut
butter which to me is a perfect food in that its nearly even in fat carb
and protien..but nuts are certainly not low fat.



I have never been low carb even when i was hard core into bodybuilding.

When you were hard core into body building what were your bg
readings? That's if you were monitoring them then. For most people,
building a lot of muscle will definitely require more calories and
those calories will be burned more efficiently.

I was not diabetic.. or pre diabetic when i was seriously into it..and the
couple years pre dx was into lifting and eating healthy as a life choice..
only became aware that i was diabetic when i took a month off
lifitng..somthing everyone should do time to time to avoid overtraining
and fully allow regrowth....that i was eating other then my normal
meals..i was makign bread from scratch and ate alot of it..alot for me
anyhoo and got sick big time.
As far as my meal choices most bodybuilders eat chicken breast and
broccoli and starch in the form of yams..i hate yams other then in
pie..so chose brown rice for my starch.
It was not whole grain..just store shelf stuff i kept in fridge to keep
from going rancid..fyi brown rice and most whole grains have fat and will
spiol if not refridgerated..so whole grains and brown rice also arent low
fat..just good fats.

I also dont blame the whole wheat bread and brown rice for my dx..but i DO
know i cant eat them now without a big spike i dont want.


To tell you the truth, Krom, I don't even know if we are disagreeing
about anything here. I've never had a problem with anyone making a
diet choice, whether it's low-carb, low-fat, portion control, or a
combination of all of those. People with diabetes need to find
something other than the SAD (Standard American...hell, any
country...Diet). My problem with some in this newsgroup is they think
they have the magic potion and anyone else who doesn't see it that way
is treated very rudely. I'm not alone in feeling this way. But I
will speak for myself.


No when you explain you possition it is reasonable as is mine and i think
so is alans and others..its just i came here seeign nothing but fighting
between you all and only now do i get a reasoned conversation about what
the problem is/was and i see it different from you.. let me give a brief
example:

New person type two arrives and say they are spiking from a meal..we ask
what the meal was..they say all they ate was a hot dog two ears of corn
and some carrots.

So most of us will point out the carrots and corn often soike people and
the hot dog might contain fillers also spike possible.

Others may say "i cant eat any of that".

I never see anyone saying you must never eat that..just LOOK at those
items and test to see IF they are the culprit and for alot of type twos it
would be.

If the poster was type one it might be improper dosing etc i cant speak to
it cause im not a type one so wouldnt speak on it.

I do see you and a couple others automatically saying to not listen to us
..that those foods are fine and we are all pushing a low carb agenda.

Thats where i become irked with you..if you say somthing like :

"As a type one those foods dont bother me personally but do some type twos
..so you might want to test and see if they bother you"
And offer all the websites you normally do.

you would appear reasonable and we would have zero issues at all.


KROM



I also wish to applaud the reasonable approach you entered here.
Keep it up !

Frank

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:09:02 GMT, "Helen Back"
wrote:


"Ozgirl" wrote in message
...

"Helen Back" wrote in message
...

"Màck©®" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:26:17 -0500, "rk" wrote:


"Helen Back" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Chocolate is less greasy in the pocket than bacon and eggs! :P

I pity the fool who would attempt to treat a hypo with bacon
and eggs.. pure protein wouldn't help in any form of hypo condition.

Joking or not, a new diabetic and never reading here prior wouldn't
know the difference and if they followed that advice could cause them
perhaps death! You also don't bother to state this info is for a T1 or
T2.
Because you don't bother with a sigline.

I think I'll save myself further stress.. OUT

rk, t1


anyone who was reading longer than a day would know that Helen was a
type 2. they would also know that she didn't say a hypo should be
treated with bacon and eggs. however. A mild type 2 hypo could
easily be treated with bacon, eggs, and a little juice and or a
biscuit. Amazingly enough even a mild type 1 hypo can be treated in
the same manner.

Thank you, Mack. I didnt explain myself to rk for the simple reason
being that my "bacon and eggs in the pocket" comment was a joke (hence
the :P) - and the fact that rk ended with a dismissive "OUT".

Yes, it very obviously was a joke but for some type 2's, including myself,
ANY food can bring me out of a hypo. Even mostly protein.

That's how I stop getting low bg crashes by eating a protein enriched
breakfast - it allows me to last a few hours as opposed to a couple.
Especially if I decide, on a whim, to go for long walks in the middle of
nowhere. Wales is full of large expanses of green hills and mountains (with
the odd castle on top!).

I will normally eat 1 rasher of bacon, 2 poached eggs and a couple of
mushrooms with a slice of linseed/soya toast - followed by a handful of
raspberries and yoghurt.

Yes that's the A answer, fuel up *before* exercising so you don't get
as far as the hypo (or liver dump, depending on time of day)

I do low and fairly constant levels of gardening, housework, walking
etc. all the time, the a few times a year I'll have major purges on
the garden.

Last spring I really got my input sorted against my output, I added
some extra carbs and fat after my normal low-spike breakfast with the
intention of getting my BG up around 6 (110)efore starting, to avoid
the morning liver dump, then used a couple of oatcakes with almond
butter and some ryebread and butter as boluses during the exertion.

First it looked like I'd blown it as I went up to 7.1 (130) which was
probably the result of a minor infection rather than overcarbing, as
the entire rest of the day (including a prolonged gentle walk to
relieve the post-gardening stiffness) I was absolutely nailed at 4.8
(86) to the extent that I was tempted to bang my meter on the desk in
case it had gotten stuck . . .

That one morning I dare to speak of again, I didnt allow myself time to eat
properly - it was a slice of bread and a pear, I think. And, of course, a
brisk walk on a steep hill caused me to plunge. My bg was 3.8 (68.4) - and
how I managed to prick my finger, considering how bad my hands were shaking,
I do not know!

Before the days of dx, anything sugary (mainly mars bars, snickers,
whatever) that I took when I felt *ill* would make me feel even sicker. So,
I would crash into a bakery and buy myself a sandwich or a meat pasty of
some kind and that would help immensely. But its only since dx that I find
dark choc of the 70%+ variety that brings me up in a comfortable way.

In days of yore I realise I'd treat myself in similar circumstances
with a thick slice of Healthy Wholewheat Bread with cheese or peanut
butter, or a bacon butty, washed down with a cup of sweet coffee.

In retrospect I can now see that this was my attempt without really
knowing what I was doing to deal with the hypo I didn;t know I was
having: the fast carb (sugar in the coffee) would kick my BG up and
the bread would keep it up - far too high, of course, which would
cause a rebound low, and here we go roller-coastering again. This
would probably still be doable in the face of strenuous and continued
exercise, but IME small and often is the best way to override a broken
control system.

I'm still learning about the complex and technical way in which we have to
learn about the do's and dont's of diabetes and I have read that sugar IS
the worst thing one can eat to bring bg up - but I simply find the lower
sugar content of a dark choc bar enough to bring me out of the crash of low
bg.

It is about individuals chosen method of recuperation and its also about a
person knowing their own body and its reactions to certain situations.
And it is different for everyone.

Yes that's the point, to some extent us Type 2s are like a Type1 with
only a basal and no bolus - we may still have a workable Phase 2
without the Phase 1 and a really slow carb/fat combo over time is much
more doable than for a Type 1 who *needs* faster carbs to match the
insulin activity curve.

Of course, the most obvious moral of the story (for me) is: eat a proper
breakfast before engaging in any high impact, cardiovascular exercise.

(Those ancient castles sure are pretty close up!!) )))

So's Castell Coch