On Jan 4, 2:14�pm, "Gantlet" wrote:
HelloKurt
�just wanted to wish you a happy New Year.
and also say you do a very good job at ignoring the many insults
you get while only voicing your opinion as a fellow diabetic.

There are insults in this newsgroup? Where? LOL

I hope this is a wonderful year for you.

Same to you. Continued success with the exercise and thanks for
sharing the great info on it.

One of my resolutions was to not read or post so much here and to stop
responding to certain people when they take cheap shots. Not doing
too well with that one so far. Oh well, it's only January
4th...there's always tomorrow!

Best to you and your family...

Kurt

On Jan 4, 6:09�pm, "Ozgirl" wrote:
"Kurt" wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 5:26?am, "rk" wrote:





"Helen Back" wrote in message

...
|
|
| Chocolate is less greasy in the pocket than bacon and eggs! :P

I pity the fool who would attempt to treat a hypo with bacon
and eggs.. pure protein wouldn't help in any form of hypo condition.

Joking or not, a new diabetic and never reading here prior wouldn't
know the difference and if they followed that advice could cause them
perhaps death! You also don't bother to state this info is for a T1 or T2.
Because you don't bother with a sigline.

I think I'll save myself further stress.. OUT

The main problem with this thread is that people are not
distinguishing what they mean by a "hypo". �Seems to me the ones that
recommend chocolate or protein mean it as a way to avoid a hypo as
opposed to treating a hypo. �Big difference between the two.

----------------

I answered you, I asked you if you thought 2.6 qualified as a hypo?

Yes, 2.6 IMO would be classified as a hypo? Would you treat that with
chocolate? I wouldn't.

Kurt

In alt.support.diabetes Jackie Patti wrote:
Chris Malcolm wrote:

Exactly. The danger of getting onto a reactive hypoglycemia roller
coaster is a real danger for non-insulin using T2 who still have good
second phase insulin responses left, and one that doesn't exist for
insulin users. Whereas insulin users have to avoid the risk of serious
medical emergency lows, a danger that doesn't exist for many
non-insulin using T2s. Quite different dangers, with quite different
appropriate remedies to avoid them.

It's not just injected insulin; a lot of T2s take pancreas-stimulating
medications also. Then a hypo can be just as serious... your body
doesn't distinguish between homemade insulin vs. the injected stuff.

You're quite right. And even without any drugs at all a T2 can still
get a reactive hypo after a bad scare or an injury.

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Kurt" wrote in message
...
On Jan 4, 6:09?pm, "Ozgirl" wrote:
"Kurt" wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 5:26?am, "rk" wrote:





"Helen Back" wrote in message

...
|
|
| Chocolate is less greasy in the pocket than bacon and eggs! :P

I pity the fool who would attempt to treat a hypo with bacon
and eggs.. pure protein wouldn't help in any form of hypo condition.

Joking or not, a new diabetic and never reading here prior wouldn't
know the difference and if they followed that advice could cause them
perhaps death! You also don't bother to state this info is for a T1 or
T2.
Because you don't bother with a sigline.

I think I'll save myself further stress.. OUT

The main problem with this thread is that people are not
distinguishing what they mean by a "hypo". ?Seems to me the ones that
recommend chocolate or protein mean it as a way to avoid a hypo as
opposed to treating a hypo. ?Big difference between the two.

----------------

I answered you, I asked you if you thought 2.6 qualified as a hypo?

Yes, 2.6 IMO would be classified as a hypo? Would you treat that with
chocolate? I wouldn't.

------
As that is as low as it would probably go considering no meds or insulin,
these days I would eat something that isnt going to stimulate further
insulin release. Which sweet things do and in the past has caused the roller
coaster. A chunk of chicken and any veggies I have in the house work fine.
Add in a bit of a liver dump and there is no crisis. If I was on insulin I
would go for the juice, coke, sugared water, jelly beans etc.

Right!
Raw almonds for some reason stabalise my bg to normal baseline if im high or
low..but might not do anything for another person.
We are amazing machines made in a factory full of gremlins..so for people to
expect us all to follow the ada or anyones guidlines without self testing
is anti-proactive which is all most of us are trying to be and advise to
others to be..

KROM

"Chris Malcolm" wrote in message
...
In alt.support.diabetes Helen Back wrote:

Who do we believe, who do we take our advice from if there is so much
conflicting information?

Those whose predictions about what foods and behaviour will raise or
lower our BG actually works in practice. That's the beauty of having
your own BG meter. You can test out out your doctor's advice, a book's
advice, a web site's advice, the advice of someone on asd, and see who
gets it right most often. Cut right through all the endless "authority
wars" by experimental test.

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On Jan 4, 8:56�pm, "krom" wrote:
Right!
Raw almonds for some reason stabalise my bg to normal baseline if im high or
low..but might not do anything for another person.
We are amazing machines made in a factory full of gremlins..so for people to
expect us all to follow �the ada or anyones guidlines without self testing
is anti-proactive which is all most of us are trying to be and advise to
others to be..

So who's expecting you or anyone else to follow the ADA's guidelines
without self testing? And the guidelines the ADA posts are just that.
They are general recommendations with specific instructions to work
with your healthcare team to determine your personal needs.

Some people in here sure do work hard to keep the flame of hate about
the ADA burning.


Kurt

Well kurt when we say somthing works for us and post what works or doesnt
for us.. you counter such a post with "dont listen to amatuers" and "another
low carb cultist" etc.

Since most all here DO work with a endo or doc you point is moot.

The complaint is about BAD doctors adn BAD or overgeneralised advice..the a
ADA and you often dispense advice to type two's geared for type ones and
thats a problem.

I dont hate the ADA at all and sub to thier mag etc..i just find alot of
thier dietary advice woefully wrong for ME as a type two non insulin
dependant person.

On a good day i need no meds thanks to my diet and exercise..if i ate the
diet the ADA recomends i would for sure need meds..its as simple as that for
me.

KROM

"Kurt" wrote in message
...
On Jan 4, 8:56?pm, "krom" wrote:
Right!
Raw almonds for some reason stabalise my bg to normal baseline if im high
or
low..but might not do anything for another person.
We are amazing machines made in a factory full of gremlins..so for people
to
expect us all to follow ?the ada or anyones guidlines without self testing
is anti-proactive which is all most of us are trying to be and advise to
others to be..

So who's expecting you or anyone else to follow the ADA's guidelines
without self testing? And the guidelines the ADA posts are just that.
They are general recommendations with specific instructions to work
with your healthcare team to determine your personal needs.

Some people in here sure do work hard to keep the flame of hate about
the ADA burning.


Kurt

In alt.support.diabetes Kurt wrote:
On Jan 4, 6:09???pm, "Ozgirl" wrote:
"Kurt" wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 5:26?am, "rk" wrote:
"Helen Back" wrote in message

...

| Chocolate is less greasy in the pocket than bacon and eggs! :P

I pity the fool who would attempt to treat a hypo with bacon
and eggs.. pure protein wouldn't help in any form of hypo condition.

Joking or not, a new diabetic and never reading here prior wouldn't
know the difference and if they followed that advice could cause them
perhaps death! You also don't bother to state this info is for a T1 or T2.
Because you don't bother with a sigline.

I think I'll save myself further stress.. OUT

The main problem with this thread is that people are not
distinguishing what they mean by a "hypo". ???Seems to me the ones that
recommend chocolate or protein mean it as a way to avoid a hypo as
opposed to treating a hypo. ???Big difference between the two.

----------------

I answered you, I asked you if you thought 2.6 qualified as a hypo?

Yes, 2.6 IMO would be classified as a hypo? Would you treat that with
chocolate? I wouldn't.

Fair enough, especially since you're a T1, but the important question
here is whether you think any bad consequences might follow from
someone else, such as a non-drug-using T2, treating it with chocolate,
and if so, why?

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On Jan 5, 4:01�am, "krom" wrote:
Well kurt when we say somthing works for us and post what works or doesnt
for us.. you counter such a post with "dont listen to amatuers" and "another
low carb cultist" etc.

Since most all here DO work with a endo or doc you point is moot.

The complaint is about BAD doctors adn BAD or overgeneralised advice..the a
ADA and you often dispense advice to type two's geared for type ones and
thats a problem.

I dont hate the ADA at all and sub to thier mag etc..i just find alot of
thier dietary advice woefully wrong for ME as a type two non insulin
dependant person.

On a good day i need no meds thanks to my diet and exercise..if i ate the
diet the ADA recomends i would for sure need meds..its as simple as that for
me.

I understand what you're saying but the problem for me comes from when
people assume that their recommendations - and they offer more than
one approach to eating with sliding scale suggestions - are taken as
some kind of mandate, as opposed to "suggestions." You have found
something that works for you, just as I have, that differs from those
suggestions and it seems to work. I would imagine the ADA would think
that's a very good thing. We all are individuals and we need to find
what works for us and something we can live with. But for those who
need a starting point which is different and better than how most
people eat, the recommendations they offer are broad and a good
starting point.

Kurt

On Jan 5, 8:07�am, M�ck�� wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 21:50:54 -0800 (PST), Kurt

wrote:

Some people in here sure do work hard to keep the flame of hate about
the regular posters who think and post without my permission burning.

Kurt

you had a typo, I corrected it for you.

You are welcome.

Oh, that's right, since you have no respect for people's words you
change them, or steal them, at will and think there's nothing wrong
with it. I guess with all that boggling going on in your mind it gets
in the way of your sense of right and wrong.

http://tinyurl.com/34xcvh

Unboggle that mind and choose to be a better person.

Kurt

In alt.support.diabetes Chris Malcolm wrote:
: In alt.support.diabetes Kurt wrote:
: On Jan 4, 6:09???pm, "Ozgirl" wrote:
: "Kurt" wrote in message
:
: ...
: On Jan 3, 5:26?am, "rk" wrote:
: "Helen Back" wrote in message
:
: ...

: | Chocolate is less greasy in the pocket than bacon and eggs! :P
:
: I pity the fool who would attempt to treat a hypo with bacon
: and eggs.. pure protein wouldn't help in any form of hypo condition.
:
: Joking or not, a new diabetic and never reading here prior wouldn't
: know the difference and if they followed that advice could cause them
: perhaps death! You also don't bother to state this info is for a T1 or T2.
: Because you don't bother with a sigline.
:
: I think I'll save myself further stress.. OUT
:
: The main problem with this thread is that people are not
: distinguishing what they mean by a "hypo". ???Seems to me the ones that
: recommend chocolate or protein mean it as a way to avoid a hypo as
: opposed to treating a hypo. ???Big difference between the two.
:
: ----------------
:
: I answered you, I asked you if you thought 2.6 qualified as a hypo?

: Yes, 2.6 IMO would be classified as a hypo? Would you treat that with
: chocolate? I wouldn't.

: Fair enough, especially since you're a T1, but the important question
: here is whether you think any bad consequences might follow from
: someone else, such as a non-drug-using T2, treating it with chocolate,
: and if so, why?

: --
: Chris Malcolm DoD #205
: IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
: [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

As a type 2 Iseldom get lows, but I have accasionally gone into the 40s
or 50s and more frequently, inot the 60s or low 70s. What I find works
FOR ME is a small amount of orange juice, about 2 oz, to get me ff the
bottom and then something like a Wasa cracker with either cheese or peanut
butter to give my system something to slowly work on. Were I to take 4
oz of OJ I wld go too high and begin, if not a roller coaster, at least
problems with my next meal.

This usually results in a reading in the mid 80s by 15 mins.

Wendy

The thing is.... for a new type two's... the issue is bringing oneself under
control as quickly as possible with as little meds as possible.
For most type two's going low spike right away is the answer at the
onset...then as they gain control they can adjust thier diets to what works
for them best.
If the ada would suggest this for type two's it would be alot better.
I get they have to be broud based covering type ones and two's but for
example i picked up the ada mag the day i was dx'd and saw recipes for
meals that had like 48 carbs for a serving..the only "diabetic" change to
the recipe from a non diabetic one was they changed some of the sugar for
apple juice but really the overal carb count was the same as a regular
dessert item so i was very confused as my meter quickly let me know i would
go very high eating such a item..they dont say this is for type ones only or
type twos who can tolerat such a item..no they just say here it is make it.

I used to workout 5 days a week pre dx and ate very healthy and still was
480 or so when i was dx..so to say diet and exercise is all it takes and you
can eat as a non diabetic is false.

The goal is non diabetic numbers and the way for many type twos to do it
with minimum meds is to eat a low spike diet which by some seems low
carb...which it is not.

The truth is going from white rice on my plate to veggies is a healthier
choice even if i was NOT a diabetic...thats the issue for me.

KROM

"Kurt" wrote
I understand what you're saying but the problem for me comes from when
people assume that their recommendations - and they offer more than
one approach to eating with sliding scale suggestions - are taken as
some kind of mandate, as opposed to "suggestions." You have found
something that works for you, just as I have, that differs from those
suggestions and it seems to work. I would imagine the ADA would think
that's a very good thing. We all are individuals and we need to find
what works for us and something we can live with. But for those who
need a starting point which is different and better than how most
people eat, the recommendations they offer are broad and a good
starting point.

Kurt

"krom" wrote in message
...
Well kurt when we say somthing works for us and post what works or doesnt
for us.. you counter such a post with "dont listen to amatuers" and
"another low carb cultist" etc.

I know for me, cutting my carbs has made a world of difference. But like
you, I also say what works for ME, may not work for you because we are all
different.

Since most all here DO work with a endo or doc you point is moot.

The complaint is about BAD doctors adn BAD or overgeneralised advice..the
a ADA and you often dispense advice to type two's geared for type ones and
thats a problem.

I dont hate the ADA at all and sub to thier mag etc..i just find alot of
thier dietary advice woefully wrong for ME as a type two non insulin
dependant person.

On a good day i need no meds thanks to my diet and exercise..if i ate the
diet the ADA recomends i would for sure need meds..its as simple as that
for me.

I like the ADA for the fact that they are advocates for us diabetics in
general. However, as I said in another post, my doctors and I decide what
will be most effective for me, not anything that comes from them.

--
T2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet
http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel
Undo the munge to reply by email

"W. Baker" wrote in message
...
In alt.support.diabetes Chris Malcolm wrote:
: In alt.support.diabetes Kurt wrote:
: On Jan 4, 6:09???pm, "Ozgirl" wrote:
: "Kurt" wrote in message
:
:
...
: On Jan 3, 5:26?am, "rk" wrote:
: "Helen Back" wrote in message
:
: ...

: | Chocolate is less greasy in the pocket than bacon and eggs! :P
:
: I pity the fool who would attempt to treat a hypo with bacon
: and eggs.. pure protein wouldn't help in any form of hypo
condition.
:
: Joking or not, a new diabetic and never reading here prior wouldn't
: know the difference and if they followed that advice could cause
them
: perhaps death! You also don't bother to state this info is for a T1
or T2.
: Because you don't bother with a sigline.
:
: I think I'll save myself further stress.. OUT
:
: The main problem with this thread is that people are not
: distinguishing what they mean by a "hypo". ???Seems to me the ones
that
: recommend chocolate or protein mean it as a way to avoid a hypo as
: opposed to treating a hypo. ???Big difference between the two.
:
: ----------------
:
: I answered you, I asked you if you thought 2.6 qualified as a hypo?

: Yes, 2.6 IMO would be classified as a hypo? Would you treat that with
: chocolate? I wouldn't.

: Fair enough, especially since you're a T1, but the important question
: here is whether you think any bad consequences might follow from
: someone else, such as a non-drug-using T2, treating it with chocolate,
: and if so, why?

: --
: Chris Malcolm DoD #205
: IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
: [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

As a type 2 Iseldom get lows, but I have accasionally gone into the 40s
or 50s and more frequently, inot the 60s or low 70s. What I find works
FOR ME is a small amount of orange juice, about 2 oz, to get me ff the
bottom and then something like a Wasa cracker with either cheese or peanut
butter to give my system something to slowly work on. Were I to take 4
oz of OJ I wld go too high and begin, if not a roller coaster, at least
problems with my next meal.

This usually results in a reading in the mid 80s by 15 mins.

Well since I went on the Lantus I am a bit more prone to hypos right now. As
my back allows, my real vigorous exercise consists playing drums.
Heavy/Speed Metal type...

For me though I see a more subdued/balanced response with the exercise.
Doesn't drop me super fast depending on the BG level when I start playing. I
got glucose tablets and gel from my educator, but I keep the tabs in the
Exploder for when I am out. At home I usually have the little bottles of
apple juice or Sunny-D for fast response. For a slower response will usually
do some peanut crackers and a small glass of milk.

--
T2 - Oct. '96 - Lantus, oral meds, diet
http://www.lockergnome.com/darksentinel
Undo the munge to reply by email

In alt.support.diabetes krom wrote:
: The thing is.... for a new type two's... the issue is bringing oneself under
: control as quickly as possible with as little meds as possible.
: For most type two's going low spike right away is the answer at the
: onset...then as they gain control they can adjust thier diets to what works
: for them best.

For some newl diagnosed type 2s with high numbers there may well be a
better to start. It is possible to have glucose toxicity and a fairly
rapid drop in blood sugar is highly desireable. In such cases, as Old Al
used to discuss, insulin (along with diet and exercise) is the way to go
until some control is gained. It can then be stopped and either oral meds
like metformin or just D&E can be used. Just be sure to avoid both
using insulin and cutting about all your carbs which can set you up for a
rare condition in th eeye from too rapidly droping numbers. Eye doctors
are aware of this rare condition, but still like to see fast recovery from
hig bgs, as they are dangerous to the eyes.

I don't think you were here when ChrisJ was here. He had this problem
after being diagnosed in teh hospital wit bgs well over 500 and refusing
to eat the very high carb meals served him there. He was puton insulin
and was eating only tofu and a green vegetable, not sure if it was
broccoli or something else. He got his number way down in about 6 days
and was off the insulin, but had this eye problem, looing a small portion
of his viaion in one eye. It is a problem only with VERY exreme dropping
of bgs by the newly diagnosed.

This is one reason I reccomend a visit to an opthamologist soon after
diagnosis for a fully dilated retinal exam.

Wendy wearing her "eye police" hat.