What some type ones seem to forget is that while i may not go into a comma
with a low..i can pass out or become disoriented and irrational.
I have as a type two gone as low as the 30's which is pretty darn low!
If i was driving or doing somthign requiring a clear head i would be a risk
to not just me but others.
So finding the right and safe way for me to come out of a low and stay
stable is important.

KROM



"Chris Malcolm" wrote
The danger of getting onto a reactive hypoglycemia roller
coaster is a real danger for non-insulin using T2 who still have good
second phase insulin responses left, and one that doesn't exist for
insulin users. Whereas insulin users have to avoid the risk of serious
medical emergency lows, a danger that doesn't exist for many
non-insulin using T2s. Quite different dangers, with quite different
appropriate remedies to avoid them.

Any generic advice about hypos which doesn't differentiate between
these two quite different kinds of hypo condition is crudely and
dangerously over-simplified. Kurt's long quotation of the ADA advice
was a good example of that kind of crude over-simplification.

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:50:06 GMT, Helen Back posted:

There is so much conflicting documentation strewn everywhere (from books,
websites, articles, etc) - my diabetes nurse gasped at my simple statement
that I dont eat white basmatic rice because it makes my bg spike. She
retorted, quite indignantly, "Well, I cant see how that could happen, it has
one of the lowest glycaemic levels"!!

She takes and gives all her information from the Diabetes UK organisation
and promptly passed me onto another doctor after I informed her that I have
cut my intake of starchy foods (potatoes, bread etc). She ignored me
completely when, in answer to her comment about changing from white
(refined) bread to wholemeal, I added that I dont eat wholemeal as alot of
wholemeal breads are also processed, altho it looks healthily brown. I'll
stick to my 4 slices of Burgen linseed and soya bread!

Who do we believe, who do we take our advice from if there is so much
conflicting information?

And that is the best argument ever, for thinking for yourself; for
finding out more about YOUR reactions to food, and trying out the
advice of people who are demonstrably achieving goals you strive for.

--
Larry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada.
DX 24 Aug 07. D&E
Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin
Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1

Chris Malcolm wrote:

Thanks, Kurt, for posting such an excellent example of the really
stupid way the ADA lumps together insulin-using T2s and non-insulin
using T2s :-)

Eh... I used Sweetarts (which are nearly pure glucose and better-tasting
and cheaper than glucose tablets) before insulin... when the only time I
ever went low was with strength training type of exercise... and still
use it today on insulin, when lows can be from multiple things.

It's hard to beat glucose for raising bg fast if you're really going low.

Though if you're just "sorta" low, and feeling crappy, any kind of treat
you normally deny yourself works. I'd be less inclined to do that
*myself* cause treats I keep around would be a regular source of
temptation for me, whereas Sweetarts aren't.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Ozgirl wrote:

Yes, it very obviously was a joke but for some type 2's, including myself,
ANY food can bring me out of a hypo. Even mostly protein.

I didn't notice it before insulin much, but protein raises my bg
substantially - about 50%. I have to dose for 30g of protein the same
as for 15g total carb or 10 g net carb.

EVERYONE'S mileage will vary, as there's too many biochemical processes
going on to predict how much protein is converted to glucose in an
individual's case.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

krom wrote:
As a type two if i use pure sugar as in candy to treat a hypo or even just a
low to where i feel bad..which to me is as important..
I would go on a rollor coaster ride of highs and lows that is zero fun.

No, you have to dose it properly. For me, 4 Sweetarts raises my bg
around 10 mg/dL. This is *much* more precise than just eating candy or
drinking juice. I can correct to almost exactly where I want to be.

I don't correct unless I go under 70 and I "aim" to correct to 100, so
am almost always going to be taking at least 12 Sweetarts.

You go high if you decide a low is a reason to just binge. Correcting
*precisely* with candy isn't the same at all.

The solution for me if im begining one is to eat something that stabalises
me from falling more and going way up abve my baseline.
For me the answer is usually nuts or a peanutbutter sandwhich..anything with
a good carg/fat/protien mix to treat the low and sustain me after.

For me, sustaining myself after is a whole other ballgame... a regular
meal after the Sweetarts. The Sweetarts are just to fix the problem fast.

But it depends. I have the flu right now and am uncertain what I can
eat that will stay with me. For the past few days, I am not injecting
before meals at all anymore. Basically, I eat, knowing I'll go high,
and if it stays down for a couple hours, then I test and inject to
correct.

This seems to me the safest way to deal, but I'm a T2 and unlikely to go
sky high if I don't inject for a meal. Plus, it's not like there's a
lot of food in my meals right now (though carby than usual).

Overall, it seems a lot easier to *avoid* hypos than treat them.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Chris Malcolm wrote:

Exactly. The danger of getting onto a reactive hypoglycemia roller
coaster is a real danger for non-insulin using T2 who still have good
second phase insulin responses left, and one that doesn't exist for
insulin users. Whereas insulin users have to avoid the risk of serious
medical emergency lows, a danger that doesn't exist for many
non-insulin using T2s. Quite different dangers, with quite different
appropriate remedies to avoid them.

It's not just injected insulin; a lot of T2s take pancreas-stimulating
medications also. Then a hypo can be just as serious... your body
doesn't distinguish between homemade insulin vs. the injected stuff.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:50:06 GMT, "Helen Back"
wrote:

Who do we believe, who do we take our advice from if there is so much
conflicting information?

Your meter, your intelligence, and your avid reading of the available
knowledge.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:50:06 GMT, "Helen Back"
wrote:

"Kurt" wrote in message
...

But I would encourage anyone, other than the geniuses in
here who think they know more than doctors, to consult with their
doctor about how they should treat a hypo if they have one.

Exactly why I ask you in another thread what you would do IF you didnt have
a doctor or professional trained in diabetes.

You're not likely to get an answer to that question from him, Helen.
In Kurt's perfect world, all diabetics are treated by a team of highly
educated and competent doctors, nutritionists, dieticians, nurses,
etc. The only way it could get better is with limo rides to all those
appointments.

On Jan 3, 5:26�am, "rk" wrote:
"Helen Back" wrote in message

...
|
|
| Chocolate is less greasy in the pocket than bacon and eggs! :P

I pity the fool who would attempt to treat a hypo with bacon
and eggs.. pure protein wouldn't help in any form of hypo condition.

Joking or not, a new diabetic and never reading here prior wouldn't
know the difference and if they followed that advice could cause them
perhaps death! You also don't bother to state this info is for a T1 or T2.
Because you don't bother with a sigline.

I think I'll save myself further stress.. OUT

The main problem with this thread is that people are not
distinguishing what they mean by a "hypo". Seems to me the ones that
recommend chocolate or protein mean it as a way to avoid a hypo as
opposed to treating a hypo. Big difference between the two.

Kurt

For me a hypo is below 70 and i never eat junk to fix it.
If im really bad i will eat 2 or so pieces of hard candy untill i am in
control enough to go eat real food such as the peanut butter sandwhich on
low carb bread.

If i dont eat the protien and fat even if i regulate myself to precise candy
intake i will rollor coaster..i believe quenton explained it better then i
could the bio reasons.

KROM

"Jackie Patti" wrote in message
...
krom wrote:
As a type two if i use pure sugar as in candy to treat a hypo or even
just a low to where i feel bad..which to me is as important..
I would go on a rollor coaster ride of highs and lows that is zero fun.

No, you have to dose it properly. For me, 4 Sweetarts raises my bg around
10 mg/dL. This is *much* more precise than just eating candy or drinking
juice. I can correct to almost exactly where I want to be.

I don't correct unless I go under 70 and I "aim" to correct to 100, so am
almost always going to be taking at least 12 Sweetarts.

You go high if you decide a low is a reason to just binge. Correcting
*precisely* with candy isn't the same at all.

The solution for me if im begining one is to eat something that
stabalises me from falling more and going way up abve my baseline.
For me the answer is usually nuts or a peanutbutter sandwhich..anything
with a good carg/fat/protien mix to treat the low and sustain me after.

For me, sustaining myself after is a whole other ballgame... a regular
meal after the Sweetarts. The Sweetarts are just to fix the problem fast.

But it depends. I have the flu right now and am uncertain what I can eat
that will stay with me. For the past few days, I am not injecting before
meals at all anymore. Basically, I eat, knowing I'll go high, and if it
stays down for a couple hours, then I test and inject to correct.

This seems to me the safest way to deal, but I'm a T2 and unlikely to go
sky high if I don't inject for a meal. Plus, it's not like there's a lot
of food in my meals right now (though carby than usual).

Overall, it seems a lot easier to *avoid* hypos than treat them.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

yeah i take metformin and glipizide..i was told to take 1000 m met and 20
glipi twice a day and was going as low as 38 by the time i tested.
I currently am reduced to 500 met once a day and 5 mg glipi or less a day
depending on how my body is reacting.
When i was taking the big amount i was having days where i was lucky to get
to 70 no matter what i ate..it was scary.
Now im always between 80-100 with a occasional 120 after meals..which where
i feel the best.

KROM

"Jackie Patti" wrote in message
...
Chris Malcolm wrote:

Exactly. The danger of getting onto a reactive hypoglycemia roller
coaster is a real danger for non-insulin using T2 who still have good
second phase insulin responses left, and one that doesn't exist for
insulin users. Whereas insulin users have to avoid the risk of serious
medical emergency lows, a danger that doesn't exist for many
non-insulin using T2s. Quite different dangers, with quite different
appropriate remedies to avoid them.

It's not just injected insulin; a lot of T2s take pancreas-stimulating
medications also. Then a hypo can be just as serious... your body doesn't
distinguish between homemade insulin vs. the injected stuff.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

BlueBrooke wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:50:06 GMT, "Helen Back"
wrote:

"Kurt" wrote in message
...

But I would encourage anyone, other than the geniuses in
here who think they know more than doctors, to consult with their
doctor about how they should treat a hypo if they have one.

Exactly why I ask you in another thread what you would do IF you didnt
have
a doctor or professional trained in diabetes.

You're not likely to get an answer to that question from him, Helen.
In Kurt's perfect world, all diabetics are treated by a team of highly
educated and competent doctors, nutritionists, dieticians, nurses,
etc. The only way it could get better is with limo rides to all those
appointments.

Oooooooh! Where can I sign up? Oh yeah. He thinks we can eat plenty of
carbs too!

Hello Kurt
just wanted to wish you a happy New Year.
and also say you do a very good job at ignoring the many insults
you get while only voicing your opinion as a fellow diabetic.

I hope this is a wonderful year for you.

Tom



"Kurt" wrote in message
news:a3d180c8-5817-4df4-8690-

In alt.support.diabetes Helen Back wrote:

Who do we believe, who do we take our advice from if there is so much
conflicting information?

Those whose predictions about what foods and behaviour will raise or
lower our BG actually works in practice. That's the beauty of having
your own BG meter. You can test out out your doctor's advice, a book's
advice, a web site's advice, the advice of someone on asd, and see who
gets it right most often. Cut right through all the endless "authority
wars" by experimental test.

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Kurt" wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 5:26?am, "rk" wrote:
"Helen Back" wrote in message

...
|
|
| Chocolate is less greasy in the pocket than bacon and eggs! :P

I pity the fool who would attempt to treat a hypo with bacon
and eggs.. pure protein wouldn't help in any form of hypo condition.

Joking or not, a new diabetic and never reading here prior wouldn't
know the difference and if they followed that advice could cause them
perhaps death! You also don't bother to state this info is for a T1 or T2.
Because you don't bother with a sigline.

I think I'll save myself further stress.. OUT

The main problem with this thread is that people are not
distinguishing what they mean by a "hypo". Seems to me the ones that
recommend chocolate or protein mean it as a way to avoid a hypo as
opposed to treating a hypo. Big difference between the two.


----------------

I answered you, I asked you if you thought 2.6 qualified as a hypo?