Robert Miles wrote:

Some people think that leaving out the sugar, and not the other carbs,
is enough for a diabetic recipe.

Which is particularly ironic with bread since the yeast eats the sugar
anyways.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Anna wrote:

I got this in my email. Please point out all the carbs beside
flour?????

It's nearly entirely flour and therefore nearly entirely carb. Might as
well post a recipe for a "diabetic" hot fudge sundae...

I have scores of recipes for bread, including recipes for sourdough,
recipes starting with various whole wheats that you grind, etc. Nothing
particularly "diabetic" about them though. It's just regular old bread.
Some tastes better than others, but... hardly makes it "diabetic".


Diabetics do eat carbs. They are allowed 12 per day,
divided up among 3 meals and a snacks. I eat less than that.

There is *no* amount of carbs that is "allowed" for all diabetics. We
are not the same and have different reactions to carbs.

I also don't know what "12" means, there's no units there. 12 WHAT? 12
pieces of bread? 12 servings of carbs? What?

Before the pancreatic damage that caused me to go on insulin, I could
tolerate around 50g net carb per day. That *could* have meant a slice
of bread now and then, but given I'd have to give up veggies or fruit
for it, not often. Certainly not often enough to get through a whole
loaf of bread before it goes bad.


Not like
someone is going to sit down and eat the whole loaf of bread.

No, if I replace some fruit or veggies with a slice of bread, it's take
most of a month to get through a loaf. So I'd have to freeze it. Not a
very worthwhile use of my cooking time really.

And frankly, I'd just not want to give up a half pound of roasted green
beans or a cup of blueberries for a slice of bread; maybe once in a
while, but certainly not for every day for almost a month to get through
a loaf of bread.


Apparently you have never talked with a nutritionist about a diet for
diabetics.

Yes actually, I have. She thought my diet was maximzied for both
diabetes and heart health. She photocopied all the stuff I brought
about how I eat to show to other patients. HINT: bread was not on the list.

They do not go without carbs in a day. Nutritionists frown
upon the Atkins diet which I think you are leaning toward with no
carbs.

Atkins is not a no-carb diet. Even it strictest phase, which only lasts
2 days, you eat 20g carb/day... primarily from veggies.

You don't seem to know what the heck you're talking about.

Are you a T1 or a T2? Are you on insulin?

How much of this bread can you eat at a sitting? How much insulin must
you inject to cover it? If you're not on insulin, how high does your bg
spike after eating it? At the highest point? And what was it beforehand?

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Alice Faber wrote:

I have a bad cold, so I'm not eating the same way I normally do (how
appetizing something is plays a role, when appetite is depressed). In
any case, my carbs yesterday came from a low-carb wrap (flax meal and
oat bran as ingredients), a few slices of tomato, the barley in a bowl
of mushroom-barley soup (home-made), and two small pieces of chocolate.

Could you post the mushroom-barley soup recipe?

I'm having flu and nothing sounds like it'll stay down right now, but
that sounds like it might.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Anna wrote:

The nutritionist I spoke with said 12 carbs a day.
YOU WILL NOT TELL ME WHAT I CAN POST HERE. No one is going to eat the
whole loaf of bread which is more than the 15 carbs you are bragging
about.

Anna dear, please don't take this the wrong way, but... you are a moron.
Never mind, take it the wrong way. There's no right way.

Your recipe called for 2 1/14 - 2 3/4 cups all-purpose flour (plus other
carbs) and made 2 loaves, so more than a cup of flour per loaf.

One cup of all purpose flour:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c21Uf.html

That's 96 grams of carb *just* in the all-purpose flour. The whole loaf
is probably going to run around 150g; I don't care enough to bother with
the calculations cause I *know* it's just freaking bread same as any
other bread from reading the ingredients and I know I can't eat that
without portions being so tiny as to be ridiculous. If you cut each of
the two loaves in your recipe into ten slices, that runs around 15g per
slice - same as every other bread on the market.

Even when I make NON-diabetic bread, it's freaking healthier than that
crap. What the heck GOOD is eating ANY all-purpose flour? What is
wrong with grinding hard wheat berries so as to at least get a *few*
micronutrients in the stuff? If you want to make just regular old
bread, here's a foolproof recipe:
http://ornery-geeks.org/text/cooking...basicbread.asp

That stuff is *good* - but it's not diabetic-friendly at all. I
wouldn't eat more than a slice a month at most.

I can eat a whole cup of strawberries (12 g) and gets gobs of
micronutrients instead of a slice of this bread:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20XI.html

And no, I shall NOT tell you what to post, I shall just not bother
reading any more of your posts since you're obviously not going to post
anything remotely useful.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

No Name wrote:

Nutritionists are $300 an hour and our insurance won't cover something
like that.

No, they're not.

My endocrinologist's office has a registered dietician/certified
diabetes educator. Her appointments last an hour and cost significantly
less than appointments with the nurse practicitioner which are only a
half hour.

Can't speak to your insurance, but Blue Cross/Blue Shield absolutely
covers it.

The classes they teach each Monday evening are *free* to all patients in
the office.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:00:26 -0500, Jackie Patti
wrote:


Atkins is not a no-carb diet. Even it strictest phase, which only lasts
2 days, you eat 20g carb/day... primarily from veggies.

(psst -- Jackie -- it's two *weeks* -- carry on!)

BlueBrooke wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:00:26 -0500, Jackie Patti
wrote:


Atkins is not a no-carb diet. Even it strictest phase, which only lasts
2 days, you eat 20g carb/day... primarily from veggies.

(psst -- Jackie -- it's two *weeks* -- carry on!)

Errr... I *did* know that. Must've had a brain fart. Right in a thread
where I called someone else a moron. How embarassing!

I just got home from the in-laws, we both got the flu, came home to find
the sick cat ahd gotten sicker all *over* everything and suddenly find I
have much less patience than usual. Today, stupidity is ****ing me off
- so it's ironic I'm having an atatck myself.

I added more folks to my killfile today than I ever have had in there
before. Even when my mood improves, no reason to waste my patience like
that anyways!

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Alice Faber wrote:
In article ,
Jackie Patti wrote:

Alice Faber wrote:

I have a bad cold, so I'm not eating the same way I normally do (how
appetizing something is plays a role, when appetite is depressed). In
any case, my carbs yesterday came from a low-carb wrap (flax meal and
oat bran as ingredients), a few slices of tomato, the barley in a bowl
of mushroom-barley soup (home-made), and two small pieces of chocolate.
Could you post the mushroom-barley soup recipe?

I'm having flu and nothing sounds like it'll stay down right now, but
that sounds like it might.

No recipe. When I make soup, I just throw stuff in the pot and cook it
until it's soup.

For this one, I had c. 1/2 cup drippings from roasting the chicken and
the bag of giblets that was in the cavity. I covered this with water,
added c. 1 tsp salt and 1 tbs dried celery, brought it to a boil, and
let it simmer until it was soup. I then removed the giblets. I had a 10
oz box of mushrooms which I sliced with my egg slicer; if I'd been
feeling better, I would have sliced them thinner. I put them in a bowl
and covered them with boiling water, and let them steep while I chopped
up c. 1/3 of an onion (that's what I had, already peeled, in the
fridge). I then dumped all of the mushrooms and onion into the broth,
and added 1/4 cup dried barley, some tarragon and fresh pepper. I
brought it back to the boil and then let it simmer for a few hours. I
might have added more water. In any case, I ended up with about 8 cups
of soup, which is 4 servings for me.

If you have chicken broth around anyway, you can start with that. I
didn't, but I happened to have the fixings for it.

That's close enough to a recipe for me, Alice! Thanks very much.


--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

In article ,
Jackie Patti wrote:

Alice Faber wrote:
In article ,
Jackie Patti wrote:

Alice Faber wrote:

I have a bad cold, so I'm not eating the same way I normally do (how
appetizing something is plays a role, when appetite is depressed). In
any case, my carbs yesterday came from a low-carb wrap (flax meal and
oat bran as ingredients), a few slices of tomato, the barley in a bowl
of mushroom-barley soup (home-made), and two small pieces of chocolate.
Could you post the mushroom-barley soup recipe?

I'm having flu and nothing sounds like it'll stay down right now, but
that sounds like it might.

No recipe. When I make soup, I just throw stuff in the pot and cook it
until it's soup.

For this one, I had c. 1/2 cup drippings from roasting the chicken and
the bag of giblets that was in the cavity. I covered this with water,
added c. 1 tsp salt and 1 tbs dried celery, brought it to a boil, and
let it simmer until it was soup. I then removed the giblets. I had a 10
oz box of mushrooms which I sliced with my egg slicer; if I'd been
feeling better, I would have sliced them thinner. I put them in a bowl
and covered them with boiling water, and let them steep while I chopped
up c. 1/3 of an onion (that's what I had, already peeled, in the
fridge). I then dumped all of the mushrooms and onion into the broth,
and added 1/4 cup dried barley, some tarragon and fresh pepper. I
brought it back to the boil and then let it simmer for a few hours. I
might have added more water. In any case, I ended up with about 8 cups
of soup, which is 4 servings for me.

If you have chicken broth around anyway, you can start with that. I
didn't, but I happened to have the fixings for it.

That's close enough to a recipe for me, Alice! Thanks very much.

You're welcome. I figured you'd be able to deal with it.

And, as an addendum, I probably put a few small bay leaves in while I
was making the broth.

--
"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly.
This, apparently, upsets the fools."
---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:06:51 -0500, Jackie Patti
wrote:

BlueBrooke wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:00:26 -0500, Jackie Patti
wrote:


Atkins is not a no-carb diet. Even it strictest phase, which only lasts
2 days, you eat 20g carb/day... primarily from veggies.

(psst -- Jackie -- it's two *weeks* -- carry on!)

Errr... I *did* know that.

I know that -- that's why I whispered it real quiet so it would be
just between us. ;-)

Must've had a brain fart. Right in a thread
where I called someone else a moron. How embarassing!

It's a law or something. Besides, brain farts aren't the sign of a
moron. Completely different criteria.

I just got home from the in-laws, we both got the flu, came home to find
the sick cat ahd gotten sicker all *over* everything and suddenly find I
have much less patience than usual. Today, stupidity is ****ing me off
- so it's ironic I'm having an atatck myself.

I noticed. I doubt I'm the only one. ;-)

I added more folks to my killfile today than I ever have had in there
before. Even when my mood improves, no reason to waste my patience like
that anyways!

Good point.

It's pretty clear you're wired up today. Hope you're feeling better
soon.

--
BlueBrooke
T2/D&E/June 2005
May 2007 A1c 5.5
Oct 2007 Yellow Belt! Yeah!

BlueBrooke wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:06:51 -0500, Jackie Patti
wrote:

I just got home from the in-laws, we both got the flu, came home to find
the sick cat ahd gotten sicker all *over* everything and suddenly find I
have much less patience than usual. Today, stupidity is ****ing me off
- so it's ironic I'm having an atatck myself.

I noticed. I doubt I'm the only one. ;-)

Ah... well, me being an ass is that obvious, eh?


I added more folks to my killfile today than I ever have had in there
before. Even when my mood improves, no reason to waste my patience like
that anyways!

Good point.

It's pretty clear you're wired up today. Hope you're feeling better
soon.

Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt instead of writing me
of as a jackass.

Onwards...

Anna, I apologize. Please don't let my misbehaviour discourage you from
participating in this newsgroup.

As noted above, I have lost patience with some other folks whom are...
well, willfully ignorant. People who seem to purposely misunderstand
what is going on in order to pick fights with others. It's not really
stupidity or misunderstanding, but hostility on their part.
Unfortunately, it seems to have infected me a bit and made me a bit of
the jerk I don't like in others.

It was very inappropriate for me to just lash out at a newbie. It is
clear you don't know quite as much as some others here, and that is not
a crime. If it were, there's any number of areas I'd be such a criminal
myself.

Please remain and continue to share your thoughts and learn with us.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Jackie Patti wrote:
BlueBrooke wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:06:51 -0500, Jackie Patti
wrote:


I just got home from the in-laws, we both got the flu, came home to
find the sick cat ahd gotten sicker all *over* everything and
suddenly find I have much less patience than usual. Today, stupidity
is ****ing me off - so it's ironic I'm having an atatck myself.


I noticed. I doubt I'm the only one. ;-)


Ah... well, me being an ass is that obvious, eh?


I added more folks to my killfile today than I ever have had in there
before. Even when my mood improves, no reason to waste my patience
like that anyways!


Good point.
It's pretty clear you're wired up today. Hope you're feeling better
soon.


Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt instead of writing me
of as a jackass.

Onwards...

Anna, I apologize. Please don't let my misbehaviour discourage you from
participating in this newsgroup.

As noted above, I have lost patience with some other folks whom are...
well, willfully ignorant. People who seem to purposely misunderstand
what is going on in order to pick fights with others. It's not really
stupidity or misunderstanding, but hostility on their part.
Unfortunately, it seems to have infected me a bit and made me a bit of
the jerk I don't like in others.

It was very inappropriate for me to just lash out at a newbie. It is
clear you don't know quite as much as some others here, and that is not
a crime. If it were, there's any number of areas I'd be such a criminal
myself.

Please remain and continue to share your thoughts and learn with us.

Jackie,

That post was so well-written.......if folks in other groups would take
lessons from you, cyberworld would be so much happier!

Have a good 2008, and thanks for your civility and courtesy, on behalf
of all who hate "flaming" etc.

We all live and learn, especially fom specialised groups.

Gillian