[Default] On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:18:42 -0500, Susan
Giggled into the madness of usenet:


Ma¢k wrote:

One point he makes - there are certainly essential proteins; there are
also certain essential fats; there are no essential carbohydrates.



I did not write that.

--
Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..

We knew that. :-)

Cheri


Ma¢k wrote in message ...
[Default] On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:18:42 -0500, Susan
Giggled into the madness of usenet:


Ma¢k wrote:

One point he makes - there are certainly essential proteins; there
are
also certain essential fats; there are no essential carbohydrates.



I did not write that.

--
Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

"Ozgirl" wrote in message
...

respectful brevity snips

The line of questioning from the OP is suggestive of his
friends being type 2. I hope he will clarify this.


I am printing up all your replies. I know little about Diabetes since I do
not have the condition. These people all have "adult onset" diabetes. I
believe that it's known as Type #2.

One of these friends, a male age 62 lives on a high carbohydrate diet and
drinks at least one six-pack of beer a night. He does not exercise due to
the pain and swelling in his feet. Encouraging him to get on a better diet
with less "sugars" has done no good. His feet are discolored and he was
told he may lose one or both.

He checks his blood once or twice a day and has been on indictable insulin
for 6 years now.

"ray" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:48:11 -0600, L. Conrad wrote:

I'm asking this because I have several friends and a brother in law with
diabetes. My BIL doesn't need insulin as he controls his diabetes with
diet
alone. He's on a really low carb diet and is doing great. He also lost
his
excess weight. No, his cholesterol levels are not out of sight, staying
under 200. He is in his mid 70s now. But my friends, ages from 50 to
75
will not eat a low carb diet, one doesn't even seem to realize what foods
are high in carbs or sugars. One says carbs are necessary for health.
The
research I've done so far says that is not true since humans can make
their
own carbs from protein by splitting off one atom or some such (think
Eskimos
and far north peoples). I learned no one ever suffered a carb
deficiency.
They are unwilling to give up the foods they love such as potatoes, peas,
bagels, cereals, corn etc.

The questions a

Can a diabetic, already on insulin control their blood-sugar better by
adopting a very low carb, or near no carb diet?
Can a diabetic who adopts a low carb diet improve their blood values and
need LESS insulin?
Would the need for less insulin be better for their general health?
Can a diabetic slowly lower their carb levels to see if less insulin is
needed?

I would refer you to Dr. Richard Bernstein's "Diabetes Solution". He has
been a type 1 diabetic for nearly 60 years and is in excellent health. His
answer to your queries would be 'yes'. He advocates a diet of 30 grams of
cabohydrates daily for insulin users. Please note I am not affiliated with
Dr. B. - I have a copy of his book which I reread from time to time. I
credit his basic approach to helping me gain control.

One point he makes - there are certainly essential proteins; there are
also certain essential fats; there are no essential carbohydrates.

Good luck.

Thank you for all for your replies. I believe many diabetics would not be
willing to give up the foods they love to keep to a 30g carb a day diet.
That is essentially the problem with my friends. They wont give up what the
love to help themselves. None are really active or into physical activity
of any type beyond the usual shopping or house cleaning. Only my BIL is
willing to do this, plus walk 2 miles most days, and has remained in good
health for years. He said if he went off the strict diet he would eventually
need to go the injectable route and wants to avoid that possibility.

They will see the recommendation of the book above.

"Susan" wrote in message
...

"the line "there are no essential carbohydrates" is misleading. Just
because there are no specific sources of carbs that are essential does
not equate to carbs are not essential."

Susan

I have not yet heard of anyone suffering a carb deficiency since the
popularity of the low carb diets for weight loss. I would think getting all
the vitamins and minerals needed would be difficult if all one ate was an
assortment of meats. OTOH the greens such as Swiss chard, spinach, collards
etc are very low in carbs but do indeed contain many vitamins and minerals.

"rk" wrote in message
news:u_OdnW71qOa4oSXYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...

respectful brevity snips

Well here goes Ray again in his cheer for bernsquack!!! The OP should be
adviced that Ray doesn't have any personal FIRST hand experience with
Insulin only what he has read from someone that MANY T1's find to be a
Quack
with a personal agenda of ONLY selling his book.

Find me a crowd of 100, T1's and I'll show you maybe IF you're lucky to
find
1 that follows the Quacks advice. Any T1 eating 30gms a day is looking
for
problems being a diabetic. This isnt' advocated by any other reputable
Endo
(which the quack isn't)

The OP should tell his friend to seek qualified medical help.


They all do see their Drs but from what I can see do not follow the diets
they were given. I am hoping to convince them of the importance of diet as
one friend has already passed away from complications of diabetes. She had
adult onset. I don't want to lose another friend to this disease. I gasp
when we go out to eat and I see one of them eat a large portion of macaroni
with bread on the side. I also know one who may eat a normal meal but then
have a sugar laden slice of pie or a donut for dessert. One friend has no
idea what foods contain carbs and how many. She appears to have no interest
in learning either. It's frustrating for those of us who care for people
with this condition to see these things knowing they're surely harming
themselves.

L. Conrad wrote:

He checks his blood once or twice a day and has been on
indictable
insulin

Did you spellchecker have a mind of its own here?

"Julie Bove" wrote in message
news:ZZXth.31132$gS1.22393@trndny01...

brevity snips

Low carb diets work for some people but not all. And some people (like
me) do not feel at all well on it. I certainly do not eat all carb laden
foods, nor did I eat them all prior to diabetes. I do limit my portions.
In fact when I did try low carbing, my BG shot up even higher than it
would have on my limited carb diet.

Can that be explained somehow? I was under the impression that fats and
protein do not raise the GB to abnormal levels.

I've never used insulin so I don't know a lot about it. I do know that a
person who has type 1 (meaning they produce no insulin whatever) can
sometimes have more leeway with their diet than a type 2 who uses insulin.
There are just so many variables.

Yes, I can see that as I read all your replies.

You seem to be convinced that low carb is the only way to go. And you
don't seem to understand much about diabetes.

That's why I am asking for information from the horse's mouths so to speak.
I was impressed by my BIL's continued good health on a low carb diet for all
these many years. He was the one who peaked my interest in looking into diet
and diabetes where my other friends from church with the disease were
concerned.

There are over 300 types of
diabetes but we are generally lumped together as type 1, type 2, or
gestational. I'm a type 2 who produced a ton of natural insulin but I
have insulin resistance. The fact that a person does not use insulin does
not mean in some way that they are better than a person who does not.
People use it because they have to use it.

Thank you.

"Nicky" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:48:11 -0600, "L. Conrad"
wrote:

Your replies will be printed and given to them this coming weekend.

For the record, I'm doing the same thing as your BIL, and feel great.
But I think you're more likely to lose friends than change minds by
trying to get people to change their diet...

Fear not, I will not cram the issue down their throats. We had a discussion
at one meeting concerning diseases like diabetes and heart disease and how
they're related to diet and exercise. I told them I would ask on the "the
net" and report back to them. I come from a small town area where many
people my age lack interest in learning how to use a computer. Using
computers is another thing I am trying to get them interested in. G

How about working on the exercise part of the equation instead? A walk
an hour after eating can make a big difference to blood glucose
levels. So could a bowling game, or a swim, or a trip to the gym...

That will also be covered this weekend. It appears that many older folks are
no more interested in starting an exercise program then they are in changing
their eating habits.


Nicky.
T2 DX 05/2004
A1c 5.5% BMI 25 D&E
100ug Thyroxine

In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:51:01 -0600 in Msg.#
, "L. Conrad" wrote:

That will also be covered this weekend. It appears that many older folks are
no more interested in starting an exercise program then they are in changing
their eating habits.

Some people are simply resigned that this is the kind of thing that happens
to you when you get old. When thinking you're old in itself, that attitude,
can be playing a part in their overall health.

There are numerous 'tests' on the web - and some doctor's offices have them
as software - where you calculate your age by your health risks. And, many
of them show you how many years you could get back from that estimate by
doing 'x' thing, whether that be diet, exercise, stopping smoking, ...
whatever. That kind of thing might be illustrative to them.

--
DonnaB 09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg.
09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0

In alt.support.diabetes Ozgirl wrote:
: L. Conrad wrote:

: He checks his blood once or twice a day and has been on
: indictable
: insulin

: Did you spellchecker have a mind of its own here?

Yeah, what's the offence of that poor insulin?

Wendy-The group's crackerjack (or should I say crackpot) typist

"W. Baker" wrote in message
...
: In alt.support.diabetes Ozgirl wrote:
:: L. Conrad wrote:
:
:: He checks his blood once or twice a day and has been on
:: indictable
:: insulin
:
:: Did you spellchecker have a mind of its own here?
:
: Yeah, what's the offence of that poor insulin?
:

too hormonal........................ g

"L. Conrad" wrote in message
...
:
: "rk" wrote in message
: news:u_OdnW71qOa4oSXYnZ2dnUVZ_qemnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
:
: respectful brevity snips
:
: Well here goes Ray again in his cheer for bernsquack!!! The OP should be
: adviced that Ray doesn't have any personal FIRST hand experience with
: Insulin only what he has read from someone that MANY T1's find to be a
: Quack
: with a personal agenda of ONLY selling his book.
:
: Find me a crowd of 100, T1's and I'll show you maybe IF you're lucky to
: find
: 1 that follows the Quacks advice. Any T1 eating 30gms a day is looking
: for
: problems being a diabetic. This isnt' advocated by any other reputable
: Endo
: (which the quack isn't)
:
: The OP should tell his friend to seek qualified medical help.
:
:
: They all do see their Drs but from what I can see do not follow the diets
: they were given. I am hoping to convince them of the importance of diet as
: one friend has already passed away from complications of diabetes. She
had
: adult onset. I don't want to lose another friend to this disease. I gasp
: when we go out to eat and I see one of them eat a large portion of
macaroni
: with bread on the side. I also know one who may eat a normal meal but
then
: have a sugar laden slice of pie or a donut for dessert. One friend has no
: idea what foods contain carbs and how many. She appears to have no
interest
: in learning either. It's frustrating for those of us who care for people
: with this condition to see these things knowing they're surely harming
: themselves.
:

I'm sure it is hard to sit back and watch... but unfortunately, you can't
make
them change or learn unless they want. Depression is a very real possibly
when dealing with someone with diabetes. Not to say they need medication
but talking to other diabetics locally might be one trick.

Best of luck.

"L. Conrad" wrote in message
...
:
: "Julie Bove" wrote in message
: news:ZZXth.31132$gS1.22393@trndny01...
:
: brevity snips
:
: Low carb diets work for some people but not all. And some people (like
: me) do not feel at all well on it. I certainly do not eat all carb
laden
: foods, nor did I eat them all prior to diabetes. I do limit my
portions.
: In fact when I did try low carbing, my BG shot up even higher than it
: would have on my limited carb diet.
:
: Can that be explained somehow? I was under the impression that fats and
: protein do not raise the GB to abnormal levels.

fats do not, but protein will convert into glucose about 5-6hrs after you
eat it
and it will cause a rise. some might show none, because they have enough
insulin to cover it, others might show some, others might see quite a bit of
a
rise. If I eat a 7oz steak and go to bed with a glucose of 90, unless I
combo
bolus on my pump, I'll see 200+ easy the next morning from the rise from the
converted protein.

In alt.support.diabetes L. Conrad wrote:

: That's why I am asking for information from the horse's mouths so to speak.
: I was impressed by my BIL's continued good health on a low carb diet for all
: these many years. He was the one who peaked my interest in looking into diet
: and diabetes where my other friends from church with the disease were
: concerned.


I woudl be interested to know just how low a carb diet your BIL eats.
Many of us here find that moderate carbs, in the vicinity of less than 12-
or less than 100 a day works for us. Very few, indeed, look at a 30 carb
gram a day diet as our preference or very desireable as a life-long way of
eating. Some seem to have more trouble dealing with carbs than others and
some dont' like taking meds to such a degree that they may well try this
kind of very low carb diet.

Certainly, in dealing with your friends, this kind of suggestion would not
be welcome, as it is a very restrictive regemin that would be very hard to
follow for most of us here for more than 2 weeks or so and particularly
for people who are not used to limiting themselves. Probably, your best
bet with people who are that resistnt to advice as your friends seem to
be(not fllowing doctors' advice, etc) might be finding some real scary
statistics on diabetes complications like blindness, amupation, heart
attack and stroke and total kidney failure. Then you can talk about th
possibility of avoiding these by diet adn exercise,. just getting these
folks to avoid the white starches, bread, pasta, rice, etc, would be a
good start. I don't have a great deal of hope that they will listen to
you or even our responses, but it is very nice for you to want to be a
good friend and try.

Wendy