In another post a writer said they were getting a 30' Heartland
cooktop. It has four burners with a max output of only 15,500 BTU.
And it looks like real professional model. It costs an amazing $1550.

I fully understand why someone would want a professional range with
BTU output of 30 - 50,000 BTU. I fact, I am getting a separate wok
burner with 30,000BTU output for the same price.

But every appliance store I go into has these fake/pseudo professional
ranges with no more BTU power than "home-looking ranges at 3 to 10
times the cost of a regular stove range. The highest BTU burner I
could find on any of these fakes was 17,500. You can get that on
"regular range" models.

Are these folks just looking for the thrill of adding something "cool"
(it's sure not "hot") to their McMansions?

What am I missing?


_____
"How I wish that somewhere there existed an island for
those who are wise and of good will."
Albert Einstein
_____

Cape Cod Bob
Visit my web site at http://home.comcast.net/~bobmethelis
Delete the two "spam"s for email

"Cape Cod Bob" wrote in message
...
In another post a writer said they were getting a 30' Heartland
cooktop. It has four burners with a max output of only 15,500 BTU.
And it looks like real professional model. It costs an amazing $1550.

I fully understand why someone would want a professional range with
BTU output of 30 - 50,000 BTU. I fact, I am getting a separate wok
burner with 30,000BTU output for the same price.

But every appliance store I go into has these fake/pseudo professional
ranges with no more BTU power than "home-looking ranges at 3 to 10
times the cost of a regular stove range. The highest BTU burner I
could find on any of these fakes was 17,500. You can get that on
"regular range" models.

Are these folks just looking for the thrill of adding something "cool"
(it's sure not "hot") to their McMansions?

What am I missing?


Some of those "pseudo-professional" ranges are in fact excellent ranges but
as you note they are nothing like a real professional range that you'd find
is a restaurant kitchen. Of course the look is the main selling point.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

It's a style thing. Manufacturers are simply offering a look that
goes beyond just color. A professional look can be very effective in
a modern kitchen. I don't believe that any of these are actually
being marketed as professional ('commercial') equipment. It's
unlikely that a professional would buy one of these with the idea of
using it in a commercial application - look at the specs. You might
see names like "Pro-Style", "Professional Series", etc. on these
models and I'll grant that some of these names might be misleading,
but they're strictly referring to cosmetics.

Cape Cod Bob wrote in message . ..
In another post a writer said they were getting a 30' Heartland
cooktop. It has four burners with a max output of only 15,500 BTU.
And it looks like real professional model. It costs an amazing $1550.

I fully understand why someone would want a professional range with
BTU output of 30 - 50,000 BTU. I fact, I am getting a separate wok
burner with 30,000BTU output for the same price.

But every appliance store I go into has these fake/pseudo professional
ranges with no more BTU power than "home-looking ranges at 3 to 10
times the cost of a regular stove range. The highest BTU burner I
could find on any of these fakes was 17,500. You can get that on
"regular range" models.

Are these folks just looking for the thrill of adding something "cool"
(it's sure not "hot") to their McMansions?

What am I missing?


_____
"How I wish that somewhere there existed an island for
those who are wise and of good will."
Albert Einstein
_____

Cape Cod Bob
Visit my web site at http://home.comcast.net/~bobmethelis
Delete the two "spam"s for email

(Mike Hartigan) writes:

You might see names like "Pro-Style", "Professional Series", etc. on these
models and I'll grant that some of these names might be misleading,
but they're strictly referring to cosmetics.

It goes beyond cosmetics. There are features and options on those ranges
that aren't always available on other models: dual ovens, dual fuel,
more than 4 burners, built in grill, built in griddle. If you want a
48" range with several of the above in it, you're probably not going
to be buying it at Sears or Best Buy.

But you're correct that they aren't commercial equipment. It is worth
noting that true commercial restaurant ranges may have far fewer 'features'
than those 'pro-style' ranges. That's because a working restaurant kitchen
is going to have a separate appliance for those purposes, such as a
mandolin, grill or griddle. But unless you make pancakes for 50 regularly,
what do you need an 18" X 24" griddle surface for? :-)
--
Mike Nolan

"Mike Nolan" wrote in message
...
(Mike Hartigan) writes:

You might see names like "Pro-Style", "Professional Series", etc. on
these
models and I'll grant that some of these names might be misleading,
but they're strictly referring to cosmetics.

It goes beyond cosmetics. There are features and options on those ranges
that aren't always available on other models: dual ovens, dual fuel,
more than 4 burners, built in grill, built in griddle. If you want a
48" range with several of the above in it, you're probably not going
to be buying it at Sears or Best Buy.

But you're correct that they aren't commercial equipment. It is worth
noting that true commercial restaurant ranges may have far fewer
'features'
than those 'pro-style' ranges. That's because a working restaurant
kitchen
is going to have a separate appliance for those purposes, such as a
mandolin, grill or griddle. But unless you make pancakes for 50
regularly,
what do you need an 18" X 24" griddle surface for? :-)
--

Just for the record, Sears sells just about every appliance in production.
They have the pseudo-commercial units like Wolfe, Garland, Viking, GE
Monogram, Sub Zero, and so on, in their Great Indoor stores

"Cape Cod Bob" wrote in message
...
But every appliance store I go into has these fake/pseudo professional
ranges with no more BTU power than "home-looking ranges at 3 to 10
times the cost of a regular stove range. The highest BTU burner I
could find on any of these fakes was 17,500. You can get that on
"regular range" models.

Are these folks just looking for the thrill of adding something "cool"
(it's sure not "hot") to their McMansions?

What am I missing?

Bob,

You aren't missing much, but the step up in features to the
"professional-style" range isn't in sync with the price jump. There are
distinct advantages to a pro-style range - for the one I'm looking at (Blue
Star 36"), there's 18,000 BTU burners, six burners total, all stainless
steel, infrared broiler, ability to hold a full sheet pan (the 30" Blue Star
will hold a full sheet pan as well). All nice features notwithstanding, the
difference between a $1200-$1500 "home" style range and the $4000++ for the
"pro" style is a big jump in $$. So what does one get for that extra money?

It's generally a matter of style more than anything else. Why skimp on the
big range when you have the $5000 built-in fridge and the $2000 dishwasher
and the $50,000 worth of granite and cherry and stainless everything?

Having wrote all that - I've used several true commercial ranges, mostly
Garlands, and I have not found there to be too much of a difference in
performance between the units made for a commercial kitchen and the ones
made for a home kitchen. The price difference comes in the safety features
and insulation built in. A good commercial range can be had for half or
less of a home version, but the installation requirements are significantly
different, and the manufacturer usually will NOT warranty a home install of
a commercial unit. Even the pros have separate salamanders, flat tops,
griddles and wok burners sitting right alongside their commercial ranges.

I have a fairly standard glass-top GE range at home right now, and it's sad
that I can't use a wok or griddle with any degree of success. I'm springing
for the commercial style range in my new house (not a McMansion by any
means) because I want the six burners, the broiler, and the capacity. I'm
saving by putting a much cheaper (but the largest one they make) Amana
bottom-freezer unit in the kitchen, and getting a middle-of-the-road
dishwasher that does one thing well - wash the dishes.

Jon E

Peter Aitken wrote:

"Cape Cod Bob" wrote in message
...

In another post a writer said they were getting a 30' Heartland
cooktop. It has four burners with a max output of only 15,500 BTU.
And it looks like real professional model. It costs an amazing $1550.

I fully understand why someone would want a professional range with
BTU output of 30 - 50,000 BTU. I fact, I am getting a separate wok
burner with 30,000BTU output for the same price.

But every appliance store I go into has these fake/pseudo professional
ranges with no more BTU power than "home-looking ranges at 3 to 10
times the cost of a regular stove range. The highest BTU burner I
could find on any of these fakes was 17,500. You can get that on
"regular range" models.

Are these folks just looking for the thrill of adding something "cool"
(it's sure not "hot") to their McMansions?

What am I missing?



Some of those "pseudo-professional" ranges are in fact excellent ranges but
as you note they are nothing like a real professional range that you'd find
is a restaurant kitchen. Of course the look is the main selling point.


But why someone would buy a range that is not self cleaning is beyond
me. One reason there is no need for them in restaurants is the
availability of extremely cheap labor to keep them clean. Why someone
would want to clean their home ranges is beyond me.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

"Fresh Monniker" wrote in message
...
"Jon Endres, PE" t
wrote:

You aren't missing much, but the step up in features to the
"professional-style" range isn't in sync with the price jump.

If this were true, then you or someone would be able to start a very
profitable company to vastly undercut all those overpriced companies
out there and dominate the market for nice high quality ranges at a
reasonable price.

Maybe. However I don't think that the target market for professional-look
residential ranges would buy an inexpensive knock-off, no matter how good.
Just like they wouldn't park a Hyundai in the driveway even it was equal to
a BMW. That name badge glued to the front of the range is at least as
important and the quarter ton of stainless and cast iron.

I just toured the local Homarama. There were about 16 homes ranging from
$900K to $2 million. I thought the kitchens were unimpressive for homes of
that price range. The homes under $1 million had KitchenAid appliances.
The upper-end homes had Wolfe or Viking. None had more than one dishwasher.
I didn't see any compactors. One had a built-in ice maker. A few had
refrigerator drawer in the wet bar. Far too many had cooktops in islands
with telescoping downdraft vents. I guess for $2 million dollars I expected
something akin a catering kitchen. I got the idea that the kitchens were
purely for display.

"Fresh Monniker" wrote in message
...
"Jon Endres, PE" t
wrote:

You aren't missing much, but the step up in features to the
"professional-style" range isn't in sync with the price jump.

If this were true, then you or someone would be able to start a very
profitable company to vastly undercut all those overpriced companies
out there and dominate the market for nice high quality ranges at a
reasonable price.

I'm not so sure. A typical commercial range is in the price range of $1500
to
$2500. The home models that look like them only have some additional
insulation to prevent them from burning up wood cabinets. I doubt
insulation could suddenly make these ranges cost 3 times as much.

The issue is probably volume. I don't have numbers but I would suspect that
$6000 and up ranges are a fairly small percentage of the total marketplace.
So, in order to maintain production one must market the products as luxury
products and get an appropriate price since large scale production isn't an
option. I think the market for $3000 ranges is probably a pretty small
percentage of the business as well so cranking up production to address such
a small market at, say, half the price is probably a money losing
proposition.

Obviously the manufacturers of commercial ranges make a profit at much lower
prices. One would suspect, then, that the marketplace for ranges of this
type in commercial establishments is way, way larger than it is for the
consumer marketplace.

Fred
The Good Gourmet
http://www.thegoodgourmet.com

Think again. Remember back when they laughed at the notion of a
$40,000 *Japanese* car? Lexus was a joke until people drove it. Now,
you can buy a $70,000 VW!

That would be a $100,000 VW.

The issue is probably volume. I don't have numbers but I would suspect that
$6000 and up ranges are a fairly small percentage of the total marketplace.
So, in order to maintain production one must market the products as luxury
products and get an appropriate price since large scale production isn't an
option. I think the market for $3000 ranges is probably a pretty small
percentage of the business as well so cranking up production to address such
a small market at, say, half the price is probably a money losing
proposition.

Bingo. Same reason Porche's cost so much. Small market. Basically why
DeLorean failed. There just wasn't a large enough market for cars that
carry two people and a briefcase.

Fresh Monniker writes:

Quality and value will sell. As I understand, DCS started because
they saw that there was money to be made undercutting the old guard.

According to the salesrep for DCS at the HBAL show in Houston in 1996,
when we chose our DCS 48" dual fuel range, DCS used to make some of
the high-end ranges for Thermodor, such as the aforementioned 48" dual
fuel range. There were some disagreements between the two companies as
to how to evolve the product line, so Thermodor decided to make them
themselves (or perhaps contract the manufacturing to someone else) and
DCS went into direct competition against them.

Bluestar is winning orders even with no advertising and minimal
distribution.

They may not do much consumer advertising, but they do quite a bit of
'trade' advertising.

(BTW, KA appliances can be fine. We are specifying two of their
dishwashers as our cost-no-object choice. A Whirlpool icemaker is
also as good as the best - same inside.)

If you're talking the clear ice under cabinet icemakers, IMHO Whirlpool
makes very unreliable equipment. We installed two of them, both lasted less
than 5 years before they needed major repairs, and we just replaced one
of them completely because it was $750 to fix it--again--and $1000 to
replace it. (We replaced it with a U-Line because Whirlpool has
discontinued that particular type of undercabinet icemaker, and my
refrigeration repairman thinks U-Line makes much more reliable and
easier to service equipment.)
--
Mike Nolan

"Fresh Monniker" wrote in message
...
"Jon Endres, PE" t
wrote:

You aren't missing much, but the step up in features to the
"professional-style" range isn't in sync with the price jump.

If this were true, then you or someone would be able to start a very
profitable company to vastly undercut all those overpriced companies
out there and dominate the market for nice high quality ranges at a
reasonable price.

Your business naiveté is rather quaint and charming.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...
I just toured the local Homarama. There were about 16 homes ranging from
$900K to $2 million. I thought the kitchens were unimpressive for homes
of
that price range. The homes under $1 million had KitchenAid appliances.
The upper-end homes had Wolfe or Viking. None had more than one
dishwasher.
I didn't see any compactors. One had a built-in ice maker. A few had
refrigerator drawer in the wet bar. Far too many had cooktops in islands
with telescoping downdraft vents. I guess for $2 million dollars I
expected
something akin a catering kitchen. I got the idea that the kitchens were
purely for display.

Sounds like it. For a million buck home, I'd expect to put in a 48" or 60"
range, built in fridge, two dishwashers (or maybe a 90-second cycle Hobart),
separate icemaker, commercial 1000 cfm hood, maybe a wok burner, convection
wall oven, lots of granite, stainless, full custom cabinets, a butler's
pantry, etc.

I guess the people that have the money to build that kind of place, don't
have the time to use it. They seem to be built for show.

JE

In article , Fresh Monniker
wrote:

"Fred" wrote:

The home models that look like them only have some additional
insulation to prevent them from burning up wood cabinets. I doubt
insulation could suddenly make these ranges cost 3 times as much.

Don't forget all the lights, polished surfaces (chefs don't complain
when a new range arrives dented), electronic ignition, certification
testing, etc.


Having all those features (except mega high power burners), Hotpoint can
sell a range for $500 and was on sale at Best Buy last week for $400. I
suspect the 12,000 BTU burner on the Hotpoint is more efficient than some
of the burners on semi-pro models and thus would be putting more heat into
the pan than the raw number suggests. You can get a range with at least
one16,000 BTU burner for less than $800 at Sears, the latest Kenmore Elite
series ranges have at least one 17,000 BTU burner and in white or black is
probably around $1200. Secondly, true commercial ranges have a lot more
stainless steal, heavy cast iron grates etc. and still can be bought for
low dollars relative to their home version. So the cost of the raw
materials (high BTU burners, oodles of metal) etc. seem to need not much
more $ for the true pro models. Styling, and marketing is obviously the
reason why these ranges command what they do i.e. they do not cost what
they cost because they have "stuff" that is intrinsically expensive.


I do not think that paying for style is bad. I would certainly prefer to
furnish my house with things that look good and function well. I think
the problem is some people pretend they are confined to high end stoves
because of the functionality. For example many people say they want 6
burners at high BTU. I really would like to see a home chef manage six
dishes at high heat.

Ultimately, even expensive home stoves are not that expensive. Assume a
cost of $5000. Many peoples cars probably depreciate by that amount
every year. We all probably own at least 5 cars over our lifetimes at a
likely cost of more than $50,000 -$100,000 and considerably more if you
factor in insurance, gas, maintenance etc. So the cost of owning an
expensive stove is actually, relatively small relative to other expenses
we routinely encur.

Roland