Hi,
I've got kind of an odd problem, I can't for the life of me figure
this out. I have a Kenmore 24 in. Electric Self-Clean Freestanding
Range #90104. I bought it new last year. Now just a week or so ago, I
bought a Tilia FoodSaver #V2480. I keep it on the counter and like it a
lot.

Now for the problem. The Tilia has a vacuum mode and a seal mode.
Vacuum mode is no problem, but when seal mode goes on, the digital
control for the range goes completely blank and zeroes back to 12AM,
just as if there had been a power outage. Now, what should the one have
to do with the other? The range is on a 220 line, and the Tilia is just
plugged into the wall.

Just for the record. this is the kitchen outlet I use for everything,
my deep fryer, stand mixer, etc. No problem with any other thing, just
the heat seal on the Tilia. Can anyone offer any suggestions? This is
maddening, and makes no sense to me.

Thanks!
Robyn
--
To avoid grizzlies, the Alaska Department of Fish & Game advises hikers
to wear noisy little bells on clothes and carry pepper spray. Also watch
for signs of activity: Black bear scat is smaller and contains berries;
grizzly scat has little bells in it and smells like pepper.

"Robyn" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I've got kind of an odd problem, I can't for the life of me figure
this out. I have a Kenmore 24 in. Electric Self-Clean Freestanding
Range #90104. I bought it new last year. Now just a week or so ago, I
bought a Tilia FoodSaver #V2480. I keep it on the counter and like it a
lot.

Now for the problem. The Tilia has a vacuum mode and a seal mode.
Vacuum mode is no problem, but when seal mode goes on, the digital
control for the range goes completely blank and zeroes back to 12AM,
just as if there had been a power outage. Now, what should the one have
to do with the other? The range is on a 220 line, and the Tilia is just
plugged into the wall.

Just for the record. this is the kitchen outlet I use for everything,
my deep fryer, stand mixer, etc. No problem with any other thing, just
the heat seal on the Tilia. Can anyone offer any suggestions? This is
maddening, and makes no sense to me.

Thanks!
Robyn

You have two 110V lines into your home. Your 110V outlets on one leg or the
other. Your 220V outlets are on both. The neutral is common to both legs
as is the ground. Therefore, your 110v and 220v outlets have one 110v, a
neutral, and a ground in common. I suppose it is possible that there is
some power line noise generated by the Foodsaver that is causing a problem
It could also be some RF noise problem. I would try plugging the Foodsaver
into another outlet in another room and see what happens.

In ,
Vox Humana typed:

You have two 110V lines into your home. Your 110V outlets on one leg
or the other. Your 220V outlets are on both. The neutral is common
to both legs as is the ground. Therefore, your 110v and 220v outlets
have one 110v, a neutral, and a ground in common. I suppose it is
possible that there is some power line noise generated by the
Foodsaver that is causing a problem It could also be some RF noise
problem. I would try plugging the Foodsaver into another outlet in
another room and see what happens.

Thanks for your reply. :-) I tried the FS in another room and it
didn't bother the range a bit. I even tried it on the line that has all
my entertainment electronics, and it didn't affect those at all either.
Which is all well and good if I needed to do my heat sealing in the
living room. :-) Is there anything I can do? I'm also going to mention
here that my house is 45 years old, in case things were done differently
then. Thanks again.

Robyn
--
To avoid grizzlies, the Alaska Department of Fish & Game advises hikers
to wear noisy little bells on clothes and carry pepper spray. Also watch
for signs of activity: Black bear scat is smaller and contains berries;
grizzly scat has little bells in it and smells like pepper.

On Fri 21 Oct 2005 07:59:54a, Robyn wrote in rec.food.equipment:



In ,
Vox Humana typed:

You have two 110V lines into your home. Your 110V outlets on one leg
or the other. Your 220V outlets are on both. The neutral is common
to both legs as is the ground. Therefore, your 110v and 220v outlets
have one 110v, a neutral, and a ground in common. I suppose it is
possible that there is some power line noise generated by the
Foodsaver that is causing a problem It could also be some RF noise
problem. I would try plugging the Foodsaver into another outlet in
another room and see what happens.

Thanks for your reply. :-) I tried the FS in another room and it
didn't bother the range a bit. I even tried it on the line that has all
my entertainment electronics, and it didn't affect those at all either.
Which is all well and good if I needed to do my heat sealing in the
living room. :-) Is there anything I can do? I'm also going to mention
here that my house is 45 years old, in case things were done differently
then. Thanks again.

Robyn

If it is RF line interference, there are filters you can get that either
plug in or snap around the line cord. Try Radio Shack.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________

http://tinypic.com/eikz78.jpg

Meet Mr. Bailey

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

On Fri 21 Oct 2005 07:59:54a, Robyn wrote in rec.food.equipment:



In ,
Vox Humana typed:

You have two 110V lines into your home. Your 110V outlets on one leg
or the other. Your 220V outlets are on both. The neutral is common
to both legs as is the ground. Therefore, your 110v and 220v outlets
have one 110v, a neutral, and a ground in common. I suppose it is
possible that there is some power line noise generated by the
Foodsaver that is causing a problem It could also be some RF noise
problem. I would try plugging the Foodsaver into another outlet in
another room and see what happens.

Thanks for your reply. :-) I tried the FS in another room and it
didn't bother the range a bit. I even tried it on the line that has all
my entertainment electronics, and it didn't affect those at all either.
Which is all well and good if I needed to do my heat sealing in the
living room. :-) Is there anything I can do? I'm also going to mention
here that my house is 45 years old, in case things were done differently
then. Thanks again.

Robyn

If it is RF line interference, there are filters you can get that either
plug in or snap around the line cord. Try Radio Shack.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________

http://tinypic.com/eikz78.jpg

Meet Mr. Bailey

I can't imagine the FS sealer strip which should be a purely resistive
load creating any RFI to affect the stove timer. I also can't think of a
situation where the FS sealer load would affect the circuit, but not
other appliances such as the fryer or mixer.

One thing I can say is that you can get some very very strange effects,
particularly in conjunction with 220V appliances if you have a bad
connection causing the loss of neutral or one of the power legs at some
point in the house. I've seen these conditions first hand, in one case
where a house lost the neutral on the power drop from the pole and
another case where a bad connection developed on one of the power legs
in the meter socket on another house.

The fact that the problem does not occur when the FS is in another room
suggests it would be worthwhile to carefully inspect the connections at
the stove outlet, the FS outlet (in the kitchen), their feed points from
the main panel and any intermediate connection points. The stove timer
may be a 110v device and may be operated as a parasitic load on the
ground line to the stove if it's a 3 prong plug (newer are 4 prong). If
this is the case there may be a problem with the ground to the stove.
This could be your advance warning of a problem that could eventually
lead to a fire.

Pete C.

Robyn wrote:

Thanks for your reply. :-) I tried the FS in another room and it
didn't bother the range a bit. I even tried it on the line that has all
my entertainment electronics, and it didn't affect those at all either.
Which is all well and good if I needed to do my heat sealing in the
living room. :-) Is there anything I can do? I'm also going to mention
here that my house is 45 years old, in case things were done differently
then. Thanks again.

Hmm. Do you have fuses or breakers? How old is the wiring? If it's
as old as the house there may not be a ground wire on the stove and/or
any other circuit. It may even be possible the stove circuit is providing
the power to the counter circuit (this would be against code, even 45 years
ago, but one never knows). If you turn off the stove circuit at the
fuse/breaker box does the counter circuit still work? If not, you probably
want to get an electrician in to fix that. Putting in good grounding might
help also. Good luck.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:46:32 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

The fact that the problem does not occur when the FS is in another room
suggests it would be worthwhile to carefully inspect the connections at
the stove outlet, the FS outlet (in the kitchen), their feed points from
the main panel and any intermediate connection points. The stove timer
may be a 110v device and may be operated as a parasitic load on the
ground line to the stove if it's a 3 prong plug (newer are 4 prong). If
this is the case there may be a problem with the ground to the stove.
This could be your advance warning of a problem that could eventually
lead to a fire.

I totally agree with this poster's advice to investigate the
electrical supply to the range because you don't know what's gone on
in the 45 years since the house was built. I think you're getting a
loud message that you should hire an electrician to check out and
solve this problem. I have a 75-yr-old house and am still figuring
out its electrical wiring!!!

"Pete C." wrote in message

I can't imagine the FS sealer strip which should be a purely resistive
load creating any RFI to affect the stove timer. I also can't think of a
situation where the FS sealer load would affect the circuit, but not
other appliances such as the fryer or mixer.

I'm not so sure it is pure resistive load. It heats and seals in about 2
seconds. I don't think a resistance heater alone could do that. There are
impulse sealers that will though but I don' tknow exactly how it would
affect anything.

Definition: The process of joining thermoplastic sheets by pressing them
between elements equipped to provide a pulse of intense thermal energy to
the sealing area for a very short time, followed immediately by cooling. The
heating element may be a length of thin resistance wire such as nichrome, or
an RF heated metal bar which is cored for water cooling. Also known as
THERMAL IMPULSE SEALING. See also HEAT SEALING.
Definition Copyright ©1989 CRC Press LLC. All rights reserved.

http://www.therm-o-seal.com/
http://www.packexpo.com/ve/32712/main.html

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message

I can't imagine the FS sealer strip which should be a purely resistive
load creating any RFI to affect the stove timer. I also can't think of a
situation where the FS sealer load would affect the circuit, but not
other appliances such as the fryer or mixer.

I'm not so sure it is pure resistive load. It heats and seals in about 2
seconds. I don't think a resistance heater alone could do that. There are
impulse sealers that will though but I don' tknow exactly how it would
affect anything.

Definition: The process of joining thermoplastic sheets by pressing them
between elements equipped to provide a pulse of intense thermal energy to
the sealing area for a very short time, followed immediately by cooling. The
heating element may be a length of thin resistance wire such as nichrome, or
an RF heated metal bar which is cored for water cooling. Also known as
THERMAL IMPULSE SEALING. See also HEAT SEALING.
Definition Copyright ©1989 CRC Press LLC. All rights reserved.

http://www.therm-o-seal.com/
http://www.packexpo.com/ve/32712/main.html

While I've not taken my FS apart to investigate, I'm reasonably certain
it does not have a water cooled RF heated sealer strip. I think the FS
just has a fairly ordinary nichrome wire element under the silicone tape
and nothing more than a relay to switch power to it. The other posters
comments on power factor are interesting, but it's not clear that was
measured on a seal only cycle i.e. with no vacuum pump running.

Pete C.

Marcio wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

The other posters
comments on power factor are interesting, but it's not clear that was
measured on a seal only cycle i.e. with no vacuum pump running.

If the first 5 words of my post were not clear enough for you, I don't
know how to make it more clear.

Ok. Feel like performing exploratory surgery on your FS to see what's
really driving the sealer strip?

Pete C.

In ,
Pete C. typed:
The fact that the problem does not occur when the FS is in another
room suggests it would be worthwhile to carefully inspect the
connections at the stove outlet, the FS outlet (in the kitchen),
their feed points from the main panel and any intermediate connection
points. The stove timer may be a 110v device and may be operated as a
parasitic load on the ground line to the stove if it's a 3 prong plug
(newer are 4 prong). If this is the case there may be a problem with
the ground to the stove. This could be your advance warning of a
problem that could eventually lead to a fire.

Pete C.

I just wanted to say thanks for all the advice. I meant to get back
to this thread a lot sooner, but I live in south Florida and suddenly
found myself making hurricane preparations. Again.

Anyway, someone had asked about exactly when the stove timer cut out.
The second I press the "seal" button the display goes dark. Oh, and the
plug is a 3 prong. I guess it would be a good idea to have an
electrician look at this. The house does have oddnesses with the wiring.
There's an outlet in my bathroom that will run a tiny nightlight, but
nothing else, for example.

I'm going to print out everything I've learned so far and see what I
can find out via Google, because I'm a bit out of my depth here, I'm
more a mechanic than an electrician. Thanks again for all the help, and
good wishes to anyone else in Wilma's path. :-)

Take care,
Robyn
--
To avoid grizzlies, the Alaska Department of Fish & Game advises hikers
to wear noisy little bells on clothes and carry pepper spray. Also watch
for signs of activity: Black bear scat is smaller and contains berries;
grizzly scat has little bells in it and smells like pepper.