"Jeff" wrote in message
...
As seen from rec.food.equipment, on

Now, how do you expect to look professional and impress your friends if
you're going to let your cookbooks get dusty? You've never seen a
lawyer let those (fake) law books that are always on floor-to-ceiling
shelves right behind the big desk get dusty, have you? You can't afford
to, either!

hahaha --- you can always tell the cookbooks and recipies I use - they are
always full of splatters and fingerprints :-)




Sauces (tomato or -?) and/or broth (chicken is nice) mixed in with the
ground meat give it flavor and keep it from drying out in the oven.
Eggs mixed in serve as a binder and produce a smoother texture, but
they won't absorb all the moisture from the sauces. The usual trick is
to put in rice or bread crumbs. On one occasion I was feeling
experimental, and put in some diced potatoes instead. They came out
light and fluffy, the meat kept them from drying out, and they absorbed
all that flavor. Mmmmmmmmmmm...


I have done that with tomato sauce and I think I will try the potato instead
of the bread crumbs next time I make meatloaf



Unfortunately I have this wretched thermadore stove (talk
about a big mistake in stove purchases) and two of the burners are
"normal"
gas burners and the other two have this "turn on/turn off" feature for
lower
settings which took me about 2 days to learn to hate.

Is it one of those "burner with a brain" thingies that supposedly
senses the temperature of your cookware and adjusts itself accordingly?

No it is one of those incredibly annoying burners that turns on and off at
intervals and when it is ready to turn on then it sparks a bunch of times
before it does.


Sorry to hear about your disappointing stove. Along with a good set of
cookware, I think it's the most important appliance in the home. I had
better fortune with my Whirlpool. I had heard that KitchenAid/Whirlpool
(same company-- KitchenAid is the premium line) was the best, and was
fortunate enough to find a company "scratch and ding" outlet store. I
spent half a day there looking at stoves, but it was time well spent.
The one I got has a high output "power" burner, two regular ones, and a
small simmer burner. It turned out to be the right choice.

Yeah it was a case of label envy plus not enough asking around plus the
contractor suddenly being ready to do the kitchen. And also overwheming
excitement at finally getting back to gas burners instead of electric
befuddled my few brain cells. But based on my experience with the expensive
Thermadore, the next time I will spend less and probably have about the same
end result in satisfaction :-)

Ellen

As seen from rec.food.equipment, on
Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:44:08 -0400, "Ellen" wrote:


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
As seen from rec.food.equipment, on

Now, how do you expect to look professional and impress your friends if
you're going to let your cookbooks get dusty? You've never seen a
lawyer let those (fake) law books that are always on floor-to-ceiling
shelves right behind the big desk get dusty, have you? You can't afford
to, either!

hahaha ---



you can always tell the cookbooks and recipies I use - they are
always full of splatters and fingerprints :-)

That's what they're *suposed* to look like.

Unfortunately I have this wretched thermadore stove (talk about a
big mistake in stove purchases) and two of the burners are"normal"
gas burners and the other two have this "turn on/turn off" feature
for lower settings which took me about 2 days to learn to hate.

Is it one of those "burner with a brain" thingies that supposedly
senses the temperature of your cookware and adjusts itself
accordingly?

No it is one of those incredibly annoying burners that turns on and off
at intervals and when it is ready to turn on then it sparks a bunch of
times before it does.

blink

I've never heard of that "feature" before. I think I might learn to
hate it, too.

You got me curious enough to go visit the Thermador website,
http://www.thermador.com. The gastops main page in particular
suggests they are selling themselves as very snooty/modern/fashionable.
Did you get one of the star burner models, or one of the conventional
ones? Glancing through an owner's book for some of their conventional
models, I noticed that the so-called ExtraLow burners do not work in
the event of a power failure. Tsk-tsk. The burners have removeable caps
like mine, but the burner holes (which are located in the base) must
still be poked out with a paper clip or some such to clean them. What's
the point of removeable caps, then? There's a diagram in the owner's
book for some of the star burner models that shows that they put the
burner holes in the caps, so at least the caps may be soaked and
scrubbed out to clean the holes.

shrug I guess to keep your pressure cooker at the first ring
indicator (and maybe the second one, too), you might as well use one of
these burners and let it turn on and off. Better than having to turn it
on and off yourself, manually.

Jeff

--

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

I've never heard of that "feature" before. I think I might learn to
hate it, too.

You got me curious enough to go visit the Thermador website,
http://www.thermador.com. The gastops main page in particular
suggests they are selling themselves as very snooty/modern/fashionable.

yes they do -- and no I do not want to talk about why I jumped into that
particular puddle


Did you get one of the star burner models, or one of the conventional
ones?

I think it is conventional -- I don;t think they offered whatever the star
burner is when I bought mine

Glancing through an owner's book for some of their conventional
models, I noticed that the so-called ExtraLow burners do not work in
the event of a power failure. Tsk-tsk.

no they don't but the other two do if you happen to have matches around

The burners have removeable caps
like mine, but the burner holes (which are located in the base) must
still be poked out with a paper clip or some such to clean them.

This is true, the caps are removable and if not precisely put back then all
the burners sit there and cheerfully spark. My vocabulary has increased as a
result of this stove. Ok so now I am curious enough to go look at where the
holes are ... The caps have holes in them.

What's
the point of removeable caps, then? There's a diagram in the owner's
book for some of the star burner models that shows that they put the
burner holes in the caps, so at least the caps may be soaked and
scrubbed out to clean the holes.

Yeah I suppose I ought to soak mine one of these days.


shrug I guess to keep your pressure cooker at the first ring
indicator (and maybe the second one, too), you might as well use one of
these burners and let it turn on and off. Better than having to turn it
on and off yourself, manually.

Well I am not really sure about using the automated burners to tell you the
truth. Keeping the pressure at the second ring I have mastered pretty well.
The first ring I think will work if I let it come up to pressure on the
front burner and then shove it to the back (slightly smaller) burner. I
don't have much faith in the automated burners and the endless sparking as
they turn on and off makes me crazed.

The front led for the time and the oven temp has gotten dim enough so that
figuring out if the oven has reached the temp or what temp the oven is at is
a real PITA. Of course a service call to repair that is probably several
hundred $$ so I suppose I will wait til something else fails and get it all
fixed at once. I am sure that won't be too long :-(

What I think is that this is a very mediocre product and for mediocre I
could have spent a whole lot less and been equally as depressed :-) Next
time I will just buy some middle of the road range and be done with it. I
don't need a super high temp burner as far as I know -- what do people do
with that anyway? And I will surely never buy a black range again that I
know for a fact ...


Ellen

As seen from rec.food.equipment, on
Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:01:24 -0400, "Ellen" wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

Did you get one of the star burner models, or one of the conventional
ones?

I think it is conventional -- I don;t think they offered whatever the star
burner is when I bought mine

Something on their website left me with the impression that it is new.
The "star" burner is shaped like a five-pointed starfish . The idea
is to get more even heating.

The burners have removeable caps
like mine, but the burner holes (which are located in the base) must
still be poked out with a paper clip or some such to clean them.

This is true, the caps are removable and if not precisely put back then all
the burners sit there and cheerfully spark. My vocabulary has increased as a
result of this stove.

Heh, that's a creative way to put it.

Ok so now I am curious enough to go look at where the
holes are ... The caps have holes in them.

That's a good thing-- at least they'll be easier to clean out than if
the holes are in the part of the burner that stays on the stove.

Yeah I suppose I ought to soak mine one of these days.

They don't really clog up that quickly unless food gets spilt on them.
I think the gas itself leaves something-- on really old stoves, I've
seen these white deposits around each hole. When I've had to use such a
stove, that's when I got busy with a paper clip.

The front led for the time and the oven temp has gotten dim enough so that
figuring out if the oven has reached the temp or what temp the oven is at is
a real PITA. Of course a service call to repair that is probably several
hundred $$ so I suppose I will wait til something else fails and get it all
fixed at once. I am sure that won't be too long :-(

Yikers.. The only place I've ever seen the Thermador name before was
on those ancient electric bathroom wall heaters they used to put in old
apartment buildings.

What I think is that this is a very mediocre product and for mediocre I
could have spent a whole lot less and been equally as depressed :-)

I know just what you mean. I live on a strict budget so I have to get
my depression for as little as possible.

Next
time I will just buy some middle of the road range and be done with it.

I know it is time consuming and a lot of work to shop, to read reviews,
ask questions, and so on. I spent about a week trying to find a current
review of pressure cookers, looking on websites, searching Google for
something useful in the cooking groups, going and looking at cookers,
and so on. I don't always avoid disappointment by doing that, but
seldom are the times when I didn't come to regret it when I didn't.

I
don't need a super high temp burner as far as I know -- what do people do
with that anyway?

Well, I managed without one for many years but, having one, I do use
it. Besides the obvious use of bringing a pot of liquid up to boiling
more quickly, I find that it makes a better stir fry. The idea of stir
fry is to cut the food small and thin so that it cooks quickly. With a
hotter fire I find that things get cooked before they can dry out, that
the veggies stay more crispy and retain more flavor.

It probably does the same for frying meats. The best way to ruin a
steak is to turn it too many times, or cook it on too low of a fire. A
good hot fire sears it to keep the juices in and cooks it before it can
dry out. Frying is probably what the manufacturers have in mind, since
the high output burner is located at the front.

Jeff

--

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

I know it is time consuming and a lot of work to shop, to read reviews,
ask questions, and so on. I spent about a week trying to find a current
review of pressure cookers, looking on websites, searching Google for
something useful in the cooking groups, going and looking at cookers,
and so on. I don't always avoid disappointment by doing that, but
seldom are the times when I didn't come to regret it when I didn't.

I actually did do some research before I got the range -- but obviously not
enough. I do have to say that the situation was slightly abnormal at the
time -- the neighborhood had been destroyed by a tornado and when the
contractor showed up and said "now or wait another 6 months" now seemed like
a real good idea :-) So I was also fighting with the insurance company,
contemplating roof trusses, fingering shingles and dealing with a structural
engineer. One becomes an instant expert on how many boxes of nails one needs
and how many board feet of lumber is required for this and that. Never mind
dealing with FEMA and the taxes.

Now the range does work altho it had several service calls the first 2 years
and thermadore was holding fast on "your warranty is 1 year and we don;t
care what had to be replaced after 13 months". I guess basically what I can
say is that it is not some incredibly wonderful item with unique
capabilities. It is just a gas range with an electric oven.


I

Well, I managed without one for many years but, having one, I do use
it. Besides the obvious use of bringing a pot of liquid up to boiling
more quickly, I find that it makes a better stir fry. The idea of stir
fry is to cut the food small and thin so that it cooks quickly. With a
hotter fire I find that things get cooked before they can dry out, that
the veggies stay more crispy and retain more flavor.

Good point. I don't do a lot of stir fry as we eat out a lot at Chinese
restaurants.


It probably does the same for frying meats. The best way to ruin a
steak is to turn it too many times, or cook it on too low of a fire. A
good hot fire sears it to keep the juices in and cooks it before it can
dry out. Frying is probably what the manufacturers have in mind, since
the high output burner is located at the front.

Ah. I leave the steaks to my hubby and the grill on the deck. He worked his
way thru college cooking steaks at Stouffers and I decided many years ago
that I would not challenge him in the grill big hunks of meat department :-)
Thanks!

Ellen

As seen from rec.food.equipment, on
Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:37:48 -0400, "Ellen" wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

I know it is time consuming and a lot of work to shop, to read reviews,

I actually did do some research before I got the range -- but obviously not
enough. I do have to say that the situation was slightly abnormal at the
time -- the neighborhood had been destroyed by a tornado and when the
contractor showed up and said "now or wait another 6 months" now seemed like
a real good idea :-) So I was also fighting with the insurance company,
contemplating roof trusses, fingering shingles and dealing with a structural
engineer. One becomes an instant expert on how many boxes of nails one needs
and how many board feet of lumber is required for this and that. Never mind
dealing with FEMA and the taxes.

"Slightly"? Wow, that's a tough way to get your house remodeled. Sorry
if I sounded critical, it was not my intent to "rub it in".

Now the range does work altho it had several service calls the first 2 years
and thermadore was holding fast on "your warranty is 1 year and we don;t
care what had to be replaced after 13 months".

What a great way to win repeat customers and get good referals.

Well, I managed without one for many years but, having one, I do use
it. Besides the obvious use of bringing a pot of liquid up to boiling
more quickly, I find that it makes a better stir fry. The idea of stir
fry is to cut the food small and thin so that it cooks quickly. With a
hotter fire I find that things get cooked before they can dry out, that
the veggies stay more crispy and retain more flavor.

Good point. I don't do a lot of stir fry as we eat out a lot at Chinese
restaurants.

I must tell my McDonald's story. I was helping a friend to move.
When we broke for lunch, he and his other friends naturally headed
straight for McDonald's. When we got there, I excused myself, went
across the street to a family-owned Japanese fast food restaurant of
which I knew, and ordered their teryaki stir-fried beef and vegetables
on rice. She cooked it in a wok over a blazing fire (the way it's
supposed to be done), and it was done in 5-10 minutes.

My friends were sitting down to their burgers and fries and whatnots
just as I returned. When I opened the styrofoam box and the steam
wafted past their noses, they all leaned over the table toward the box
in coordinated unison. I declined to offer samples. When they asked
what it cost, they discovered that McDonalds's wasn't the bargain they
had thought-- they had paid the same to order enough to make a meal. I
watched them practically choke on their lunches while I enjoyed mine.

Ah. I leave the steaks to my hubby and the grill on the deck. He worked his
way thru college cooking steaks at Stouffers and I decided many years ago
that I would not challenge him in the grill big hunks of meat department :-)

Too much talent in one household!

Thanks!

'Welcome.

Jeff

My friends were sitting down to their burgers and fries and whatnots
just as I returned. When I opened the styrofoam box and the steam
wafted past their noses, they all leaned over the table toward the box
in coordinated unison. I declined to offer samples. When they asked
what it cost, they discovered that McDonalds's wasn't the bargain they
had thought-- they had paid the same to order enough to make a meal. I
watched them practically choke on their lunches while I enjoyed mine.

hahaha

Ellen