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Cooking Equipment (rec.food.equipment) Discussion of food-related equipment. Includes items used in food preparation and storage, including major and minor appliances, gadgets and utensils, infrastructure, and food- and recipe-related software.

Hidden Bake Elements in Ovens



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 12:10 AM
Dave Tuchlinsky
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Default Hidden Bake Elements in Ovens

We are looking to purchase an electric range and the model we selected
has a "Hidden Bake Element" (the bake element is hidden under to floor
of the oven). A salesman warned us that they take 20 minutes longer to
preheat the oven. Does anyone have experience with a hidden element?
Does it increase preheating time? Effect cooking?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 02:02 AM
Wayne Boatwright
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Default

On Sun 06 Feb 2005 04:10:20p, Dave Tuchlinsky wrote in rec.food.equipment:

We are looking to purchase an electric range and the model we selected
has a "Hidden Bake Element" (the bake element is hidden under to floor
of the oven). A salesman warned us that they take 20 minutes longer to
preheat the oven. Does anyone have experience with a hidden element?
Does it increase preheating time? Effect cooking?


Yes, the preheat is a bit longer. Though I've never timed it, I don't think
it was 20 minuets. Maybe more like 15. IMHO, the heat radiating from the
oven floor is mor even than from an exposed element. The overall temperature
in the oven seems to vary less over the on/off heating cycle. The range I've
experienced this with is a GE.

Wayne
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 02:09 AM
Steve Calvin
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

On Sun 06 Feb 2005 04:10:20p, Dave Tuchlinsky wrote in rec.food.equipment:


We are looking to purchase an electric range and the model we selected
has a "Hidden Bake Element" (the bake element is hidden under to floor
of the oven). A salesman warned us that they take 20 minutes longer to
preheat the oven. Does anyone have experience with a hidden element?
Does it increase preheating time? Effect cooking?



Yes, the preheat is a bit longer. Though I've never timed it, I don't think
it was 20 minuets. Maybe more like 15. IMHO, the heat radiating from the
oven floor is mor even than from an exposed element. The overall temperature
in the oven seems to vary less over the on/off heating cycle. The range I've
experienced this with is a GE.

Wayne


Seems reasonable. Do they "self clean"? Not that I'm buying a new
range anywhere in the near future, just curious.

--
Steve

Ever wonder about those people who spend $2.00 apiece on those little
bottles of Evian water? Try spelling Evian backwards...
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 02:19 AM
Vox Humana
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave Tuchlinsky" wrote in message
.. .
We are looking to purchase an electric range and the model we selected
has a "Hidden Bake Element" (the bake element is hidden under to floor
of the oven). A salesman warned us that they take 20 minutes longer to
preheat the oven. Does anyone have experience with a hidden element?
Does it increase preheating time? Effect cooking?


Maybe 20 minutes, but not 20 minutes longer! I haven't noticed any
difference between my mother's KA oven with a hidden bake element versus my
JennAir with an exposed element. I think there are so many variables that
it would be difficult to compare two ovens. There are differences in size,
insulation, and power. Some ovens activate all the elements in pre-heat
mode and others don't. My small, true convention oven with a hidden element
takes about 6 minutes to pre-heat to 350 while my large JennAir oven takes
about 15 minutes. What matters is the actual pre-heating time for the oven
you decide to buy. If you can find a showroom with a working oven, you
could time it yourself. I would think the manufacturer could also supply
that data.

I like the hidden element because it is easier to keep the oven clean and if
you should desire, you could put a baking stone on the oven floor (or a pan
with water for steam).

What ovens are your looking at?


  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 03:02 AM
Dave Tuchlinsky
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Vox Humana wrote:
"Dave Tuchlinsky" wrote in message
.. .

We are looking to purchase an electric range and the model we selected
has a "Hidden Bake Element" (the bake element is hidden under to floor
of the oven). A salesman warned us that they take 20 minutes longer to
preheat the oven. Does anyone have experience with a hidden element?
Does it increase preheating time? Effect cooking?



Maybe 20 minutes, but not 20 minutes longer! I haven't noticed any
difference between my mother's KA oven with a hidden bake element versus my
JennAir with an exposed element. I think there are so many variables that
it would be difficult to compare two ovens. There are differences in size,
insulation, and power. Some ovens activate all the elements in pre-heat
mode and others don't. My small, true convention oven with a hidden element
takes about 6 minutes to pre-heat to 350 while my large JennAir oven takes
about 15 minutes. What matters is the actual pre-heating time for the oven
you decide to buy. If you can find a showroom with a working oven, you
could time it yourself. I would think the manufacturer could also supply
that data.

I like the hidden element because it is easier to keep the oven clean and if
you should desire, you could put a baking stone on the oven floor (or a pan
with water for steam).

What ovens are your looking at?



Thanks for the response.

We're looking at a Whirlpool WERP4120P (self-cleaning, expandable
elements, ceramic top). This product line is also rebranded by Kenmore.
Whirlpool also makes a version without the hidden element, but it is
not available with the expandable stovetop elements.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 03:30 AM
Vox Humana
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave Tuchlinsky" wrote in message
.. .


We're looking at a Whirlpool WERP4120P (self-cleaning, expandable
elements, ceramic top). This product line is also rebranded by Kenmore.
Whirlpool also makes a version without the hidden element, but it is
not available with the expandable stovetop elements.


Whirlpool makes Kitchen Aid as well as many Kenmore products per Sears'
specifications. I don't think the sales person knew what he was talking
about or had some personal interest in selling you another model.

I would recommend avoiding the white-on-white top as it is a bitch to keep
clean. While you are at it, I would also consider an convection oven. It
will perform better than a conventional oven. Meat will cook faster and
remain more moist and baked goods will be more evenly baked without shifting
pans. If you have access to a showroom with high-end appliances, you will
see that most of expensive ovens have hidden elements. If it was a bad
idea, people wouldn't pay extra for it.


  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 03:39 AM
Wayne Boatwright
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun 06 Feb 2005 06:09:36p, Steve Calvin wrote in rec.food.equipment:

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

On Sun 06 Feb 2005 04:10:20p, Dave Tuchlinsky wrote in
rec.food.equipment:


We are looking to purchase an electric range and the model we selected
has a "Hidden Bake Element" (the bake element is hidden under to floor
of the oven). A salesman warned us that they take 20 minutes longer to
preheat the oven. Does anyone have experience with a hidden element?
Does it increase preheating time? Effect cooking?



Yes, the preheat is a bit longer. Though I've never timed it, I don't
think it was 20 minuets. Maybe more like 15. IMHO, the heat radiating
from the oven floor is mor even than from an exposed element. The
overall temperature in the oven seems to vary less over the on/off
heating cycle. The range I've experienced this with is a GE.

Wayne


Seems reasonable. Do they "self clean"? Not that I'm buying a new
range anywhere in the near future, just curious.


Yes, perfectly.

Wayne
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 04:00 AM
Steve Calvin
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wayne Boatwright wrote:


Seems reasonable. Do they "self clean"? Not that I'm buying a new
range anywhere in the near future, just curious.



Yes, perfectly.

Wayne


Interesting. I'm "guessing" that the bottom element is enclosed in
the cooking chamber and that there's a faux bottom installed over the
element? Otherwise it would seem like efficiency would suffer greatly.

--
Steve

Ever wonder about those people who spend $2.00 apiece on those little
bottles of Evian water? Try spelling Evian backwards...
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 08:00 AM
Wayne Boatwright
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun 06 Feb 2005 08:00:19p, Steve Calvin wrote in rec.food.equipment:

Wayne Boatwright wrote:


Seems reasonable. Do they "self clean"? Not that I'm buying a new
range anywhere in the near future, just curious.



Yes, perfectly.

Wayne


Interesting. I'm "guessing" that the bottom element is enclosed in
the cooking chamber and that there's a faux bottom installed over the
element? Otherwise it would seem like efficiency would suffer greatly.


Well, somewhat obviously, there must somehow be two bottoms, else the
element would be exposed to whatever lies under the oven cavity, usually a
storage drawer.

The oven cavity itself is essentially one unbroken shell of metal (back,
sides, top, and bottom). The element is probably in a heavily insulated
and sealed cavity attached beneath. It's hard to tell the mechanics of it
from just looking.

Wayne
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 03:42 PM
carbuff
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Dave Tuchlinsky" wrote in message
.. .


We're looking at a Whirlpool WERP4120P (self-cleaning, expandable
elements, ceramic top). This product line is also rebranded by Kenmore.
Whirlpool also makes a version without the hidden element, but it is
not available with the expandable stovetop elements.


Whirlpool makes Kitchen Aid as well as many Kenmore products per Sears'
specifications. I don't think the sales person knew what he was talking
about or had some personal interest in selling you another model.


I concur with this. I have a Whirlpool model #GLP84900 (self-cleaning,
non-convection, expandable elements, glass top). It takes 5 minutes to heat
the oven to 350F. That's faster than any exposed-element range I've ever
owned by a huge margin. That, in fact, is the feature I like best about
this range. (The next is how the oven light goes on automatically when you
open the door). )



I would recommend avoiding the white-on-white top as it is a bitch to keep
clean.


Mine is all black, and is easy to keep looking nice. The black looks
terrific with the blond oak cabinetry.


While you are at it, I would also consider an convection oven. It
will perform better than a conventional oven. Meat will cook faster and
remain more moist


Interesting that you say this. While I was appliance-shopping (last July),
I sought the advice of the only friend I know with a convection range. He
advised against, as in his experience, the food dried out with convection
cooking. So now, he only uses convection to preheat the oven, and then
bakes without the fan. YMMV

The only drawback I've found so far with this range is that the radiant
elements are slower to heat up than the old-fashioned exposed coils, and at
max setting, the heat seems a tad less intense than a red-hot coil. OTOH, I
have yet to burn anything to the bottom of a pan, which I used to do
frequently on my GE.


  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 04:17 PM
Steve Calvin
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

carbuff wrote:


I concur with this. I have a Whirlpool model #GLP84900 (self-cleaning,
non-convection, expandable elements, glass top). It takes 5 minutes to heat
the oven to 350F. That's faster than any exposed-element range I've ever
owned by a huge margin. That, in fact, is the feature I like best about
this range. (The next is how the oven light goes on automatically when you
open the door). )



I have a GE (one year old) that isn't a hidden element model. Heats to
350dF in about the same time. As for the light going on when the door's
opened... don't they all do that?!?



I would recommend avoiding the white-on-white top as it is a bitch to keep
clean.


Mine's white with a black glass top. Piece of cake to keep clean. Much
easier than the gas POS (also a new GE) that I ripped out!


Interesting that you say this. While I was appliance-shopping (last July),
I sought the advice of the only friend I know with a convection range. He
advised against, as in his experience, the food dried out with convection
cooking. So now, he only uses convection to preheat the oven, and then
bakes without the fan. YMMV


My main oven is not a convection but my secondary oven can be a
convection if I choose to use it. I think that your friend just didn't
take the time to learn the dos and don'ts of using the convection. Once
you figure them out they are really a great feature, but it does take
some patience and you don't cook exactly the same as in a normal oven.


The only drawback I've found so far with this range is that the radiant
elements are slower to heat up than the old-fashioned exposed coils, and at
max setting, the heat seems a tad less intense than a red-hot coil. OTOH, I
have yet to burn anything to the bottom of a pan, which I used to do
frequently on my GE.


Now that shocks me. My radiant elements are hot, *now*. Not as fast as
gas but not too danged far behind either! I'm talking seriously hot
seriously fast. Now, cooling down is a totally different issue. Only way
to stop the heat transfer immediately it to slide the pot/pan to a
different area of the cooktop but that's trivial.


--
Steve

Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it.
Autograph your work with excellence.

  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 04:32 PM
Vox Humana
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve Calvin" wrote in message
...
carbuff wrote:

Now that shocks me. My radiant elements are hot, *now*. Not as fast as
gas but not too danged far behind either! I'm talking seriously hot
seriously fast. Now, cooling down is a totally different issue. Only way
to stop the heat transfer immediately it to slide the pot/pan to a
different area of the cooktop but that's trivial.


That was what I found surprising about my mother's KitchenAid ceramic
cooktop. I guess that the older models where notoriously slow to heat and
not very robust. Her newer ceramic cooktop is nearly as responsive as my
gas range. She has one halogen burner that is instant. I wouldn't have
considered a ceramic cooktop due to their bad reputation, but after using
one, I had to change my mind. As I said, the only thing I would avoid is
the white-on-white version due to the high maintenance but that goes for gas
also.


  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2005, 08:53 PM
carbuff
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve Calvin" wrote in message
...
carbuff wrote:


I concur with this. I have a Whirlpool model #GLP84900 (self-cleaning,
non-convection, expandable elements, glass top). It takes 5 minutes to
heat the oven to 350F. That's faster than any exposed-element range I've
ever owned by a huge margin. That, in fact, is the feature I like best
about this range. (The next is how the oven light goes on automatically
when you open the door). )



I have a GE (one year old) that isn't a hidden element model. Heats to
350dF in about the same time. As for the light going on when the door's
opened... don't they all do that?!?


OK, maybe the new(er) high-end models all do. My computer guru, however,
bought a new stove maybe 5 yrs ago, which doesn't have an oven light at all!
Obviously an entry-level model, lol.




I would recommend avoiding the white-on-white top as it is a bitch to
keep
clean.


Mine's white with a black glass top. Piece of cake to keep clean. Much
easier than the gas POS (also a new GE) that I ripped out!


Interesting that you say this. While I was appliance-shopping (last
July), I sought the advice of the only friend I know with a convection
range. He advised against, as in his experience, the food dried out with
convection cooking. So now, he only uses convection to preheat the oven,
and then bakes without the fan. YMMV


My main oven is not a convection but my secondary oven can be a convection
if I choose to use it. I think that your friend just didn't take the time
to learn the dos and don'ts of using the convection. Once you figure them
out they are really a great feature, but it does take some patience and
you don't cook exactly the same as in a normal oven.


You're probably right - he's the type who won't take the time to RTFM, and
then wonders "Why doesn't this $1,500 POS work to my satisfaction?"



The only drawback I've found so far with this range is that the radiant
elements are slower to heat up than the old-fashioned exposed coils, and
at max setting, the heat seems a tad less intense than a red-hot coil.
OTOH, I have yet to burn anything to the bottom of a pan, which I used to
do frequently on my GE.


Now that shocks me. My radiant elements are hot, *now*. Not as fast as
gas but not too danged far behind either! I'm talking seriously hot
seriously fast. Now, cooling down is a totally different issue. Only way
to stop the heat transfer immediately it to slide the pot/pan to a
different area of the cooktop but that's trivial.


--
Steve

Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it.
Autograph your work with excellence.



 




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