So, which do people think will "sell" a kitchen better: a nice white
Kohler porcelain double bowl sink or a stainless steel double bowl
sink? We're going to replace the counters and base cabinets and are
debating whether to recycle the Kohler we have now, which is a great
sink but does require work to keep spotless, or change it out for
stainless, which I worry will look too rental-unit-ish. I think we'll
be installing white subway tile on the backsplash wall in front of
that sink, which ought to look nice. What does the cohort think?

"KLS" wrote in message
...
So, which do people think will "sell" a kitchen better: a nice white
Kohler porcelain double bowl sink or a stainless steel double bowl
sink? We're going to replace the counters and base cabinets and are
debating whether to recycle the Kohler we have now, which is a great
sink but does require work to keep spotless, or change it out for
stainless, which I worry will look too rental-unit-ish. I think we'll
be installing white subway tile on the backsplash wall in front of
that sink, which ought to look nice. What does the cohort think?


You can't please everyone, you know that. Having said that, I will give you
my answer.

I think porcelain is beautiful. I've had procelain (a double sink) in a
kitchen. When we redid the kitchen counters, we replaced it with stainless
(in 1993.)

Another house - the one we live in now: We had a ss sink. When we replaced
the countertops a few months ago, we replaced the ss sink with ss, but it is
mounted underneath the counter. I prefer it. I wouldn't fear that it will
look rental-unit-ish. But that's just me -- I've not been in rental places
for years, except for f-i-l's expensive apartment senior living, which has a
top mounted ss.

I think it will depend on how up-scale your house now looks.

Dee Dee

Oh pshaw, on Sun 18 Nov 2007 03:49:27p, Dee.Dee meant to say...


"KLS" wrote in message
...
So, which do people think will "sell" a kitchen better: a nice white
Kohler porcelain double bowl sink or a stainless steel double bowl
sink? We're going to replace the counters and base cabinets and are
debating whether to recycle the Kohler we have now, which is a great
sink but does require work to keep spotless, or change it out for
stainless, which I worry will look too rental-unit-ish. I think we'll
be installing white subway tile on the backsplash wall in front of
that sink, which ought to look nice. What does the cohort think?


You can't please everyone, you know that. Having said that, I will give
you my answer.

I think porcelain is beautiful. I've had procelain (a double sink) in a
kitchen. When we redid the kitchen counters, we replaced it with
stainless (in 1993.)

Another house - the one we live in now: We had a ss sink. When we
replaced the countertops a few months ago, we replaced the ss sink with
ss, but it is mounted underneath the counter. I prefer it. I wouldn't
fear that it will look rental-unit-ish. But that's just me -- I've not
been in rental places for years, except for f-i-l's expensive apartment
senior living, which has a top mounted ss.

I think it will depend on how up-scale your house now looks.

Dee Dee




We all have our preferences, as we all should, but I think stainlses steel
in a kitchen is very clinical looking. Having said that, I have a SS sink
myself. When we bought this house there was a choice of SS or white
porcelain, which I clearly didn't want.

If I had my druthers, I'd have either a black porcelain undermount sink or
a soapstone sink.

--
November 15th,2007
¦ A mind is a terrible thing to lose... ¦
|_| _, _ _
| |(_||_)|_)\_|
___ | ._|
| |_ _ ,_ |/ , _ . .,_ _
| | |(_|| ||\/_)(_|||/|| |(_|
___ ._| ._|
.'=:-\
/.='( ` give thanks...
/. ^=.'-._..---.

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:49:27 -0500, "Dee.Dee"
wrote:


"KLS" wrote in message
.. .
So, which do people think will "sell" a kitchen better: a nice white
Kohler porcelain double bowl sink or a stainless steel double bowl
sink? We're going to replace the counters and base cabinets and are
debating whether to recycle the Kohler we have now, which is a great
sink but does require work to keep spotless, or change it out for
stainless, which I worry will look too rental-unit-ish. I think we'll
be installing white subway tile on the backsplash wall in front of
that sink, which ought to look nice. What does the cohort think?

[experiences cut]
I think it will depend on how up-scale your house now looks.

Thanks for your thoughts on all this, and I agree with your last
comment, which leads me to my next question: does porcelain look more
upscale than SS? I think it does, and the house itself is a
wonderfully built house from 1930, so I'm inclined to keep the
porcelain, especially since it's not really stained and looks great
when it's all scrubbed out.

"KLS" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:49:27 -0500, "Dee.Dee"
wrote:


"KLS" wrote in message
. ..
So, which do people think will "sell" a kitchen better: a nice white
Kohler porcelain double bowl sink or a stainless steel double bowl
sink? We're going to replace the counters and base cabinets and are
debating whether to recycle the Kohler we have now, which is a great
sink but does require work to keep spotless, or change it out for
stainless, which I worry will look too rental-unit-ish. I think we'll
be installing white subway tile on the backsplash wall in front of
that sink, which ought to look nice. What does the cohort think?

[experiences cut]
I think it will depend on how up-scale your house now looks.

Thanks for your thoughts on all this, and I agree with your last
comment, which leads me to my next question: does porcelain look more
upscale than SS? I think it does, and the house itself is a
wonderfully built house from 1930, so I'm inclined to keep the
porcelain, especially since it's not really stained and looks great
when it's all scrubbed out.



My thoughts are that the porcelain is great for a 1930's house; it seems to
fit, and it is definitely a little class IMO.

And whether this makes sense or not -- there was a time in the 70's
(perhaps) that everyone was doing porcelain all of a sudden; so porcelain in
the 70's houses -- maybe because of the different colors available then --
seem dated to me.

I moved from one 70's house to another 70's house. The kitchen in the house
we own now had just been remodeled and it had a ss sink; perhaps a white
sink would have looked better, but then again, it didn't have white cabinet
knobs to match :-))))

But white porcelain for your home -- how can you go wrong?
Dee Dee

"Dee.Dee" wrote in message

My thoughts are that the porcelain is great for a 1930's house; it seems
to fit, and it is definitely a little class IMO.

But white porcelain for your home -- how can you go wrong?
Dee Dee

Agree. Aside from some ultra modern industrial looking kitchens, SS does
nothing for me. I'd take a nice white porcelain sink any day and it fits
the style of your home.

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:30:02 -0500, "Dee.Dee" wrote:


And whether this makes sense or not -- there was a time in the 70's
(perhaps) that everyone was doing porcelain all of a sudden; so porcelain in
the 70's houses -- maybe because of the different colors available then --
seem dated to me.

I'm not a fan of white anything, but, as others have said, the white porcelain
fits your house's original style. Stainless fits in anywhere, and was quite
popular throughout the seventies, as well.

And to perhaps combine both the old and the new, you could have your original
white porcelain installed underhung in your new counters, gaining 1.5 inches of
depth along the way, which buyers might appreciate.

But there are also quite a number of colors of porcelain available now, Dee. I
still wouldn't swap my Provence Red porcelain-coated cast iron sink for anything
else. Even SWMBO agrees (a miracle!) 8

-- Larry

"pltrgyst" wrote in message
...


But there are also quite a number of colors of porcelain available now,
Dee. I
still wouldn't swap my Provence Red porcelain-coated cast iron sink for
anything
else. Even SWMBO agrees (a miracle!) 8

-- Larry



Sorry to barge in here on the porcelain vs. stainless posting, but I guess
it's just time to get this off my chest ;-))


Larry, I've looked at your pictures many, many, many times. I'm so glad
they are posted.
I don't know if I've ever told you this, but in the home we bought about
1988 in the state of Washington was a red porcelain sink; it was large and
no dividers; it was top mounted. When we decided to sell the house, DH put
in new cabinets, new countertops and a new stainless-steel sink. We talked
about re-finishing the porcelain sink - at the time the color was not an
issue -- it needed redone - but since the price was about the same as a new
ss, we decided not to chance the professionalism of the job.


Not to go into too much detail about our newcountertops installation; but


We didn't go thru Home Depot or Lowe's. There was a lot wrong with the
measurements and other things. We ended up paying for a job we didn't
particularly like when we realized they couldn't do a better job and they
wouldn't promise that they could do a better job if they did it over. They
took money off our bill, but it took pressure to get it off, and of course,
is never enough. If this installation were done for a resell, I would've
been doubly disappointed.

Now that we're finally getting rid of the "sinking" feeling, we're sitting
on it, not finishing up on our own things that went wrong, things that
should've been corrected that we definitely will have to correct.

The flooring went well, one small seam, by the door and it came up twice,
but seems to be staying down now. (Congoleum Armstrong, as I recall.)

I'm happy with my new sink which is compartmentalized a little differently
than my last one (small on one side); and also it has less slant so that
everything in the sink doesn't fall into the garbage disposal, which I leave
open.

We threw out the trash compactor and kept an open space to put the trash
basket in, which looks like h---, but I don't like trash inside my cabinets
underneath the sink - the reverse osmosis is in there anyway. I've decided
not to fill in the space with a small wine refrigerator, so until I get a
better inspiration, it will remain open. I've ordered a distiller which
when I owned one previously was sitting on the sink. Now there definitely
is not enough room, so it will go to the utility room.

I got a piece of matching Cambria in case I want to use it for a pastry
table. Since it is sooo heavy, right now I'm using it on a solid-wood table
in an adjoining room awaiting a decision that will probably never be made.
I have the prized possession Electrolux bread machine that sits on that
table and its a welcome addition to my kitchen-area.

As well, Larry, the new addition espresso maker and burr grinder (thanks for
all your information regarding this). DH has found a roasting store in
Pennsylvania which we like -- so far. We have not had any mailed to us
thus far from them.

So, with Wayne B.'s and your help with decision-making on the purchase of my
stove, that seems to be almost settled, but getting it leveled is going to
be a peculiar problem -- not to be discussed yet ;-))

Wayne's help with my dishwasher problems (that horrible spotting), solved
95% of it with a new dishwasher (even though the previous one wasn't that
old.) I also have started using Ecover dishwashing tablets which helped
even more than anything else.

So, things must be lookin' up, because I couldn't bring myself to write
about it before.
Thanks for listening/reading, You, too, Wayne, if you're reading this; hope
you are.
Dee Dee

Oh pshaw, on Mon 19 Nov 2007 08:02:43p, Dee.Dee meant to say...


"pltrgyst" wrote in message
...


But there are also quite a number of colors of porcelain available now,
Dee. I
still wouldn't swap my Provence Red porcelain-coated cast iron sink for
anything else. Even SWMBO agrees (a miracle!) 8

-- Larry



Sorry to barge in here on the porcelain vs. stainless posting, but I
guess it's just time to get this off my chest ;-))


Larry, I've looked at your pictures many, many, many times. I'm so glad
they are posted.
I don't know if I've ever told you this, but in the home we bought
about 1988 in the state of Washington was a red porcelain sink; it was
large and no dividers; it was top mounted. When we decided to sell the
house, DH put in new cabinets, new countertops and a new stainless-steel
sink. We talked about re-finishing the porcelain sink - at the time the
color was not an issue -- it needed redone - but since the price was
about the same as a new ss, we decided not to chance the professionalism
of the job.


Not to go into too much detail about our newcountertops installation;
but


We didn't go thru Home Depot or Lowe's. There was a lot wrong with the
measurements and other things. We ended up paying for a job we didn't
particularly like when we realized they couldn't do a better job and
they wouldn't promise that they could do a better job if they did it
over. They took money off our bill, but it took pressure to get it off,
and of course, is never enough. If this installation were done for a
resell, I would've been doubly disappointed.

Now that we're finally getting rid of the "sinking" feeling, we're
sitting on it, not finishing up on our own things that went wrong,
things that should've been corrected that we definitely will have to
correct.

The flooring went well, one small seam, by the door and it came up
twice, but seems to be staying down now. (Congoleum Armstrong, as I
recall.)

I'm happy with my new sink which is compartmentalized a little
differently than my last one (small on one side); and also it has less
slant so that everything in the sink doesn't fall into the garbage
disposal, which I leave open.

We threw out the trash compactor and kept an open space to put the trash
basket in, which looks like h---, but I don't like trash inside my
cabinets underneath the sink - the reverse osmosis is in there anyway.
I've decided not to fill in the space with a small wine refrigerator, so
until I get a better inspiration, it will remain open. I've ordered a
distiller which when I owned one previously was sitting on the sink.
Now there definitely is not enough room, so it will go to the utility
room.

I got a piece of matching Cambria in case I want to use it for a pastry
table. Since it is sooo heavy, right now I'm using it on a solid-wood
table in an adjoining room awaiting a decision that will probably never
be made. I have the prized possession Electrolux bread machine that sits
on that table and its a welcome addition to my kitchen-area.

As well, Larry, the new addition espresso maker and burr grinder (thanks
for all your information regarding this). DH has found a roasting store
in Pennsylvania which we like -- so far. We have not had any mailed to
us thus far from them.

So, with Wayne B.'s and your help with decision-making on the purchase
of my stove, that seems to be almost settled, but getting it leveled is
going to be a peculiar problem -- not to be discussed yet ;-))

Wayne's help with my dishwasher problems (that horrible spotting),
solved 95% of it with a new dishwasher (even though the previous one
wasn't that old.) I also have started using Ecover dishwashing tablets
which helped even more than anything else.

So, things must be lookin' up, because I couldn't bring myself to write
about it before.
Thanks for listening/reading, You, too, Wayne, if you're reading this;
hope you are.
Dee Dee

I am, indeed, reading this Dee Dee, and I'm glad that things area looking
up overall, although I handn't realized you had had so many problems. It
was probably while I was off rfc for a while.

I have a friend here in Phoenix who has just undergone a complete kitchen
redo, as well as refreshing several other major rooms with flooring,
carpeting, painting, furniture, etc. I think it is the times we live in,
and almost everything is fraught with problems here or there. She has had
many issues with the work.

We moved into our new house last December 20th, and while most things were
as we expected them, we are still dealing with a few issues that need
resolution. We have a one year builder's warranty on the home and
wormanship, so will be turning in a list early next week for work to be
done.

--
November 15th,2007
¦ A mind is a terrible thing to lose... ¦
|_| _, _ _
| |(_||_)|_)\_|
___ | ._|
| |_ _ ,_ |/ , _ . .,_ _
| | |(_|| ||\/_)(_|||/|| |(_|
___ ._| ._|
.'=:-\
/.='( ` give thanks...
/. ^=.'-._..---.

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
I am, indeed, reading this Dee Dee, and I'm glad that things area looking
up overall, although I handn't realized you had had so many problems. It
was probably while I was off rfc for a while.



I don't think I wrote about the problems -- if I did, it was minimal and
only at first; I took out most of my frustration by documenting all the
stuff that was going on which I patterned after Larry's documentation. One
good thing I did was to take digital pictures; one in particular of a
(about) 10' piece of countertop which they said they were replacing, but
they brought back the very same one. When I showed them that they brought
back the same on --- stutter, stutter stutter; the excuses were flying!



We moved into our new house last December 20th, and while most things were
as we expected them, we are still dealing with a few issues that need
resolution. We have a one year builder's warranty on the home and
wormanship, so will be turning in a list early next week for work to be
done.


Sorry, but I had to laugh at your spelling of (their?) workmanship LOL! Was
that a Freudian slip?
I hope your work will get accomplished that you have on your list. Most
builders don't like a bad reputation.

Dee Dee

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:02:43 -0500, "Dee.Dee" wrote:

I don't know if I've ever told you this, but in the home we bought about
1988 in the state of Washington was a red porcelain sink; it was large and
no dividers; it was top mounted.

There's nothing new under the sun. 8

Sorry to hear about the problems you've had. Since you hadn't said much, I
asusmed it was all going well.

I got a piece of matching Cambria in case I want to use it for a pastry
table.

That's always a good thing to do. I wish I had bought one more six-foot length
of our granite just in case I someday think of a use for it.

As well, Larry, the new addition espresso maker and burr grinder (thanks for
all your information regarding this). DH has found a roasting store in
Pennsylvania which we like -- so far. We have not had any mailed to us
thus far from them.

At least that part's going well. Having great espresso available at any time is
awfully nice. Just the smell when you're grinding beans is a nice reward!

Speaking of which, I need to order some beans tonight myself. I must have
recommended Baltimore Coffee and Tea to you in the coffee group, didn't I?

So, with Wayne B.'s and your help with decision-making on the purchase of my
stove, that seems to be almost settled, but getting it leveled is going to
be a peculiar problem -- not to be discussed yet ;-))

Wow, that sounds like an "older home special." I think I remember you
considering various materials for use under and behind your stove.

So, things must be lookin' up, because I couldn't bring myself to write
about it before.
Thanks for listening/reading, You, too, Wayne, if you're reading this; hope
you are.

I hope they are indeed looking up. It's supposed to be a fun project with a
happy ending -- you'll get there yet, Dee.

-- Larry

"pltrgyst" wrote in message
...

Having great espresso available at any time is
awfully nice. Just the smell when you're grinding beans is a nice reward!

Speaking of which, I need to order some beans tonight myself. I must have
recommended Baltimore Coffee and Tea to you in the coffee group, didn't I?


Yes, you did. The coffee group doesn't sit too well with me, so I doubly
appreciated it your advice.

Here's what's been going on with my espresso beans initiation.

While we were studying-up on getting the machine going, after it sitting for
so long, we decided to get some coffee, went to Costco, bought two of those
big bags, Guatamalan and Costa Rica. After I bought it and before opening
it, I called Costco and it took 4-5 days to get an answer back that it was
100% arabica. Don't ask me why I waited -- I guess if you've waited so
long and time is spinning out so fast, sometimes days and weeks go by too
fast. Soooooo, I opened it, spread out a layer on a turkey platter and
looked at it -- absolutely awful -- full of pieces, scruffies, empty beans,
pinholes in the beans, etc. I taped up the opened bag and took both bags
of coffee back. No problem. If there were, I was prepared to display it
for them ;-)) Geez, I wonder if this is something they are aware of.

At about that time our kitchen was out-of-service, so we went to a local
coffee shop for a sandwich where they sold some beans, and we bought a lb.
which was pretty good, good reviews http://www.metropoliscoffee.com/ but not
quite IT, for us.

We found ourselves running out too quickly, and not wanting to run to the
next town to the coffee shop again; probably that day I was making an order
to Jessica's biscuits bookstore, so I noticed they had coffee. I ordered on
Friday and got it Monday. They charge nothing if you order 3 bags (10.7 oz.
each), so it is around 5.67-6.21 per 10.7 oz -- making it about $9 a lb.
They send it priority mail. I do like their Northern Italian (or is it
Southern Italian?) espresso beans, (the lighter one I prefer) and think I'd
recommend that for that price.

About that time I had about 4 bags of different types under my belt, so I
figured I knew enough to talk to Baltimore about their roasting ;-)). When
I asked them about their roast, they said that excluding the dark roasts,
all their coffee was roasted full city. Since I don't want dark roasts, and
want a variety of roasts for different beans, I decided to not order. I
didn't discuss mailing or roasting dates, except when I asked if there was
any left over roasted Friday, would it be mailed on Monday. The answer was
'yes.' I'm sure this is standard practice. I believe I told you Seattle's
Best roasting was done about a half-mile from where we lived on Vashon
Island, WA and their barrels of roasted beans were always sitting in the
old-floored old-building entrance room. I never saw anyone rushing/hustling
them out. (They always had coffee sitting out on the porch - with rocker -
for residents - put a quarter in for a cup, if you could afford it.)

The 13th (last week) I stayed overnight in Baltimore for a physical, so I
tried to find an actual location to view Baltimore's beans to see if their
beans all 'looked' like they was no variation in their "Full City" as they
said. But it didn't seem there was an address.

I also called Sweet Maria's but there was something that did not fit my
ordering 'profile.' Perhaps it, too, will be a later consideration.

However, in the meantime, DH had been to the Greencastle
http://www.greencastlecoffee.com/ and bought 4 different roasts and types.
Even though DH & I were talking back and forth, we didn't get but one
organically grown coffees, sorry to say; And we both loved it -- tasted
like days of yore Sumatra. I've not had it like that since the 80's. I see
that they have 13 organic coffees listed, so that's going to be my shop
preference until (hopefully not) something goes sauer.

DH said that he was in there on a weekday about 11am and the traffic
turnover was terrific. So I'm not going to worry about roasting freshness
on their end. If we decide it's going to be 'our' roaster supplier, then
I will probably have to deal with the mailing business sooner or later.

Thanks, Larry,
Happy Thanksgiving to you.
Dee Dee

Oh pshaw, on Mon 19 Nov 2007 09:13:24p, Dee.Dee meant to say...


"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
I am, indeed, reading this Dee Dee, and I'm glad that things area
looking up overall, although I handn't realized you had had so many
problems. It was probably while I was off rfc for a while.



I don't think I wrote about the problems -- if I did, it was minimal and
only at first; I took out most of my frustration by documenting all the
stuff that was going on which I patterned after Larry's documentation.
One good thing I did was to take digital pictures; one in particular of
a (about) 10' piece of countertop which they said they were replacing,
but they brought back the very same one. When I showed them that they
brought back the same on --- stutter, stutter stutter; the excuses
were flying!

I would have been furious. I don't think I saw anything about Larry's
renovation or documentation. We took a lot of digital pictures, too, just
so that we wouldn't forget the details.

We moved into our new house last December 20th, and while most things
were as we expected them, we are still dealing with a few issues that
need resolution. We have a one year builder's warranty on the home and
wormanship, so will be turning in a list early next week for work to be
done.


Sorry, but I had to laugh at your spelling of (their?) workmanship LOL!
Was that a Freudian slip?

Probably. :-)

I hope your work will get accomplished that you have on your list. Most
builders don't like a bad reputation.

Dee Dee

We had them out early on to take care of a couple of problems and they did
an excellent job. Most notable was a dining room ceiling outlet that was 2
feet off center. They did an amazing job with plastering the old hole.
Completely undetectable. The things have to be done now are fairly minor,
and I'm sure they'll do a good job.

--
November 15th,2007
¦ A mind is a terrible thing to lose... ¦
|_| _, _ _
| |(_||_)|_)\_|
___ | ._|
| |_ _ ,_ |/ , _ . .,_ _
| | |(_|| ||\/_)(_|||/|| |(_|
___ ._| ._|
.'=:-\
/.='( ` give thanks...
/. ^=.'-._..---.

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message



I don't think I saw anything about Larry's
renovation or documentation. We took a lot of digital pictures, too, just
so that we wouldn't forget the details.


Here's Larry's page.
http://www.xhost.org/kitchen/

I checked and the pictures come up for me.


Dee Dee

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:30:23 -0500, "Dee.Dee" wrote:

I don't think I saw anything about Larry's
renovation or documentation. We took a lot of digital pictures, too, just
so that we wouldn't forget the details.

Here's Larry's page.
http://www.xhost.org/kitchen/

I guiess I should put a wrap-up on that page. I forgot it was still out there,
to tell the truth.

Here's how it turned out after the new SS appliances arrived:
http://www.xhost.org/kitchen/k.jpg

-- Larry