I'm looking for a new drip maker that makes great coffee (of course)
but also is fairly compact. I've had an old Krups that I was happy
with for about 10 years, but its on its last legss.

Just looking for more data to compare.

I've read some web reviews that suggest the Krups 453 and the Braun
KF187 are top makers, but the 453 seems rather bulky and the KF187
seems to be discontinued.

Anyone have any good suggestions or URL's of good reviews?

Thanks,

Frank G.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote:

I'm looking for a new drip maker that makes great coffee (of course)
but also is fairly compact. I've had an old Krups that I was happy
with for about 10 years, but its on its last legss.

Just looking for more data to compare.

I've read some web reviews that suggest the Krups 453 and the Braun
KF187 are top makers, but the 453 seems rather bulky and the KF187
seems to be discontinued.

In case replies are being sent off-group, could I put in a plea for the
same information, please? (In my case I'm not so worried about
compactness -- just good coffee.)

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker. What I need is
advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

Thanks in advance,
Peter J. King

--
Dr Peter J. King
Lecturer in Philosophy
Pembroke College
Oxford OX1 1DW

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote:

I'm looking for a new drip maker that makes great coffee (of course)
but also is fairly compact. I've had an old Krups that I was happy
with for about 10 years, but its on its last legss.

Just looking for more data to compare.

I've read some web reviews that suggest the Krups 453 and the Braun
KF187 are top makers, but the 453 seems rather bulky and the KF187
seems to be discontinued.

In case replies are being sent off-group, could I put in a plea for the
same information, please? (In my case I'm not so worried about
compactness -- just good coffee.)

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker. What I need is
advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

Thanks in advance,
Peter J. King

--
Dr Peter J. King
Lecturer in Philosophy
Pembroke College
Oxford OX1 1DW

In article . ac.uk,
Peter King wrote:

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker. What I need is
advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

Get a Chemex or a cone filter holder. Best bang for the buck:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.brewers.shtml

As far as autobrew, Philips made a good machine; you may have better
luck finding it in the UK than here in the US.

The main criterion is whether the machine heats the water hot enough, to
ensure proper extraction. Brewing temperature should be 92 to 96 degrees
C; I believe the Cuisinart machines, as well as some of the Capressos,
meet this standard (as well as the Philips).

Second thing to look for: a machine that brews into a thermal carafe. It
is FAR better to keep the coffee warm with a carafe than with a heating
pad; the latter makes the coffee become bitter after about 20 minutes.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

In article . ac.uk,
Peter King wrote:

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker. What I need is
advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

Get a Chemex or a cone filter holder. Best bang for the buck:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.brewers.shtml

As far as autobrew, Philips made a good machine; you may have better
luck finding it in the UK than here in the US.

The main criterion is whether the machine heats the water hot enough, to
ensure proper extraction. Brewing temperature should be 92 to 96 degrees
C; I believe the Cuisinart machines, as well as some of the Capressos,
meet this standard (as well as the Philips).

Second thing to look for: a machine that brews into a thermal carafe. It
is FAR better to keep the coffee warm with a carafe than with a heating
pad; the latter makes the coffee become bitter after about 20 minutes.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Scott wrote:

In article . ac.uk,
Peter King wrote:

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker. What I need is
advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

[...]
As far as autobrew, Philips made a good machine; you may have better
luck finding it in the UK than here in the US.

Thanks -- but are *all* Philips machines OK, or just one particular model?
(This was another problem with some of the on-line reviews I read: they
sang the praises of a particular machine, which turned out to be
unavailable, but replaced by a new model. As with everything from hi-fi
to computers to CDs, there's no guarantee that the new "improved" version
will be as good as the old one.)

The main criterion is whether the machine heats the water hot enough, to
ensure proper extraction. Brewing temperature should be 92 to 96 degrees
C; I believe the Cuisinart machines, as well as some of the Capressos,
meet this standard (as well as the Philips).

I know -- but that sort of information is hard to find (and I don't know
about the U.S., but shops here don't seem to think much of people going
round with a thermometer and a bottle of water...). I don't know if
Cuisinart are sold here, but again, is it all models?

Second thing to look for: a machine that brews into a thermal carafe. It
is FAR better to keep the coffee warm with a carafe than with a heating
pad; the latter makes the coffee become bitter after about 20 minutes.

Not a problem -- I drink what I make when I make it. How could I bear the
thought of coffee just sitting there not being drunk?

Thanks again for the response.

Peter J. King

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Scott wrote:

In article . ac.uk,
Peter King wrote:

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker. What I need is
advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

[...]
As far as autobrew, Philips made a good machine; you may have better
luck finding it in the UK than here in the US.

Thanks -- but are *all* Philips machines OK, or just one particular model?
(This was another problem with some of the on-line reviews I read: they
sang the praises of a particular machine, which turned out to be
unavailable, but replaced by a new model. As with everything from hi-fi
to computers to CDs, there's no guarantee that the new "improved" version
will be as good as the old one.)

The main criterion is whether the machine heats the water hot enough, to
ensure proper extraction. Brewing temperature should be 92 to 96 degrees
C; I believe the Cuisinart machines, as well as some of the Capressos,
meet this standard (as well as the Philips).

I know -- but that sort of information is hard to find (and I don't know
about the U.S., but shops here don't seem to think much of people going
round with a thermometer and a bottle of water...). I don't know if
Cuisinart are sold here, but again, is it all models?

Second thing to look for: a machine that brews into a thermal carafe. It
is FAR better to keep the coffee warm with a carafe than with a heating
pad; the latter makes the coffee become bitter after about 20 minutes.

Not a problem -- I drink what I make when I make it. How could I bear the
thought of coffee just sitting there not being drunk?

Thanks again for the response.

Peter J. King

Peter King sez:

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote:
I'm looking for a new drip maker that makes great coffee (of course)
but also is fairly compact. I've had an old Krups that I was happy
with for about 10 years, but its on its last legss.

Just looking for more data to compare.

I've read some web reviews that suggest the Krups 453 and the Braun
KF187 are top makers, but the 453 seems rather bulky and the KF187
seems to be discontinued.

In case replies are being sent off-group, could I put in a plea for the
same information, please? (In my case I'm not so worried about
compactness -- just good coffee.)

Oddly enough, absolutely no one responded. I expected a lot
of responses considering the fervor of most newsgroups.

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker.

Exactly what I've found.

What I need is advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

Exactly my situation Peter.

I've since discovered that Cooks Illustrated (a resource that I
trust) did a thorough evaluation. You cannot get the text of the
review unless you subscribe online to their site/service. But
I found this review-of-a-review on consumersearch.com:

Though we've downgraded this review slightly for its age, this is the best
review we found on coffee makers. A special task force of "coffee authorities"
tests six machines from different manufacturers. According to these experts,
most home machines fail to reach the optimal water temperature for brewing great
coffee (195-205 degrees), which requires at least 1250 Watts power). The top
choice is the Krups ProAroma 12 Time with NaturActiv Filter Model 453, followed
by Black & Decker Kitchen Tools CMKT800, and Braun FlavorSelect KF 187. The
review warns against Mr. Coffee Elite PRX33, Betty Crocker 12-Cup Auto-Drip
BC-1754, and Hamilton Beach Aroma Express 49271, whose coffee was found "average
to awful," "watery," and "worst tasting coffee of the lot," accordingly.

I have also found out that there were a number of blog/wiki/forum posts
from people that just loved their Braun KF187, but despite the very
positive consumer feedback... Braun decided to discontinue the KF187
and replace it with an inferior model after Braun was acquired by
Gillette (ugh).

This week I'm going to pick up the Braun KF580 (white)... albeit
with some reservations...

Frank G.
+=========================================+
| Crossroads Technologies Inc. |
| www.CrossroadsTech dot com |
| fgreco @ REMOVE!cross!roads!tech!dot!com|
+=========================================+

Peter King sez:

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote:
I'm looking for a new drip maker that makes great coffee (of course)
but also is fairly compact. I've had an old Krups that I was happy
with for about 10 years, but its on its last legss.

Just looking for more data to compare.

I've read some web reviews that suggest the Krups 453 and the Braun
KF187 are top makers, but the 453 seems rather bulky and the KF187
seems to be discontinued.

In case replies are being sent off-group, could I put in a plea for the
same information, please? (In my case I'm not so worried about
compactness -- just good coffee.)

Oddly enough, absolutely no one responded. I expected a lot
of responses considering the fervor of most newsgroups.

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker.

Exactly what I've found.

What I need is advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

Exactly my situation Peter.

I've since discovered that Cooks Illustrated (a resource that I
trust) did a thorough evaluation. You cannot get the text of the
review unless you subscribe online to their site/service. But
I found this review-of-a-review on consumersearch.com:

Though we've downgraded this review slightly for its age, this is the best
review we found on coffee makers. A special task force of "coffee authorities"
tests six machines from different manufacturers. According to these experts,
most home machines fail to reach the optimal water temperature for brewing great
coffee (195-205 degrees), which requires at least 1250 Watts power). The top
choice is the Krups ProAroma 12 Time with NaturActiv Filter Model 453, followed
by Black & Decker Kitchen Tools CMKT800, and Braun FlavorSelect KF 187. The
review warns against Mr. Coffee Elite PRX33, Betty Crocker 12-Cup Auto-Drip
BC-1754, and Hamilton Beach Aroma Express 49271, whose coffee was found "average
to awful," "watery," and "worst tasting coffee of the lot," accordingly.

I have also found out that there were a number of blog/wiki/forum posts
from people that just loved their Braun KF187, but despite the very
positive consumer feedback... Braun decided to discontinue the KF187
and replace it with an inferior model after Braun was acquired by
Gillette (ugh).

This week I'm going to pick up the Braun KF580 (white)... albeit
with some reservations...

Frank G.
+=========================================+
| Crossroads Technologies Inc. |
| www.CrossroadsTech dot com |
| fgreco @ REMOVE!cross!roads!tech!dot!com|
+=========================================+

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote [to r.f.d.c.; I've added a.f.c.
in the hope of a wider response]:

Peter King put in a pleas for help on
buying a coffee maker:

Oddly enough, absolutely no one responded. I expected a lot
of responses considering the fervor of most newsgroups.

Actually Scott [Heimdall?] did, but only in terms of general makes
(Philips (and Caressos and Cuisinart, of which more below)); there's been
no response for my follow-up request for models (do *all* Philips do
well, or only certain models?).

[...] The top choice is the Krups ProAroma 12 Time with NaturActiv
Filter Model 453, followed by Black & Decker Kitchen Tools CMKT800, and
Braun FlavorSelect KF 187. The review warns against Mr. Coffee Elite
PRX33, Betty Crocker 12-Cup Auto-Drip BC-1754, and Hamilton Beach Aroma
Express 49271, whose coffee was found "average to awful," "watery," and
"worst tasting coffee of the lot," accordingly.

Now, here's another problem for me; of all these, only the Krups and Braun
are likely to be easily found (or found at all) here; I've never heard of
Mr Coffee, Betty Crocker, or Hamilton Beach (or Caresso; and though I've
heard of Cuisinart, I don't think they're sold here) The idea of a Black
& Decker coffee maker is, well, peculiar; we know them almost exclusively
for DIY tools -- drills, etc.

The main makes likely to be found in English shops include Rowenta,
Gaggia, deLonghi, Morphy Richards, Miele, Braun, Krups, Philips, Kenwood,
Breville, Bosch, Tefal, Russell Hobbs -- well, I've missed a few, but I
think that the most likely a

Braun
deLonghi
Gaggia
Krups
Philips
Rowenta.

I've seen good reviews of the Rowenta CT278, the Philips HD7610, HD7612,
and HD7624, the Braun Flavor Select (and I can now add the review you've
posted), the deLonghi DCR902T Retro, and the Krups Moca Brew (I suspect
that some of the Philips models, expecially, are no longer available).

Can anyone else vouch for or rule out any of these? I'd be very grateful.

Peter


--
Dr Peter J. King
Lecturer in Philosophy
Pembroke College
Oxford OX1 1DW

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote [to r.f.d.c.; I've added a.f.c.
in the hope of a wider response]:

Peter King put in a pleas for help on
buying a coffee maker:

Oddly enough, absolutely no one responded. I expected a lot
of responses considering the fervor of most newsgroups.

Actually Scott [Heimdall?] did, but only in terms of general makes
(Philips (and Caressos and Cuisinart, of which more below)); there's been
no response for my follow-up request for models (do *all* Philips do
well, or only certain models?).

[...] The top choice is the Krups ProAroma 12 Time with NaturActiv
Filter Model 453, followed by Black & Decker Kitchen Tools CMKT800, and
Braun FlavorSelect KF 187. The review warns against Mr. Coffee Elite
PRX33, Betty Crocker 12-Cup Auto-Drip BC-1754, and Hamilton Beach Aroma
Express 49271, whose coffee was found "average to awful," "watery," and
"worst tasting coffee of the lot," accordingly.

Now, here's another problem for me; of all these, only the Krups and Braun
are likely to be easily found (or found at all) here; I've never heard of
Mr Coffee, Betty Crocker, or Hamilton Beach (or Caresso; and though I've
heard of Cuisinart, I don't think they're sold here) The idea of a Black
& Decker coffee maker is, well, peculiar; we know them almost exclusively
for DIY tools -- drills, etc.

The main makes likely to be found in English shops include Rowenta,
Gaggia, deLonghi, Morphy Richards, Miele, Braun, Krups, Philips, Kenwood,
Breville, Bosch, Tefal, Russell Hobbs -- well, I've missed a few, but I
think that the most likely a

Braun
deLonghi
Gaggia
Krups
Philips
Rowenta.

I've seen good reviews of the Rowenta CT278, the Philips HD7610, HD7612,
and HD7624, the Braun Flavor Select (and I can now add the review you've
posted), the deLonghi DCR902T Retro, and the Krups Moca Brew (I suspect
that some of the Philips models, expecially, are no longer available).

Can anyone else vouch for or rule out any of these? I'd be very grateful.

Peter


--
Dr Peter J. King
Lecturer in Philosophy
Pembroke College
Oxford OX1 1DW

My Braun KF187 is the best drip coffee machine I've ever used beyond
any doubt. I had a Krups ProAroma before this one that I was generally
happy with, but the Braun has taught me just how good a cup of coffee
one can brew with a relatively inexpensive appliance. I use bottled
water and good Costa Rican beans and couldn't possibly be more pleased
with the results. If Braun discontinued this model, shame on them, but
if you can find one, snap it up quickly and you won't be sorry you did.

Mudge

In article . ac.uk,
Peter King wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote [to r.f.d.c.; I've added a.f.c.
in the hope of a wider response]:

Peter King put in a pleas for help on
buying a coffee maker:

Oddly enough, absolutely no one responded. I expected a lot
of responses considering the fervor of most newsgroups.

Actually Scott [Heimdall?] did, but only in terms of general makes
(Philips (and Caressos and Cuisinart, of which more below)); there's been
no response for my follow-up request for models (do *all* Philips do
well, or only certain models?).

[...] The top choice is the Krups ProAroma 12 Time with NaturActiv
Filter Model 453, followed by Black & Decker Kitchen Tools CMKT800, and
Braun FlavorSelect KF 187. The review warns against Mr. Coffee Elite
PRX33, Betty Crocker 12-Cup Auto-Drip BC-1754, and Hamilton Beach Aroma
Express 49271, whose coffee was found "average to awful," "watery," and
"worst tasting coffee of the lot," accordingly.

Now, here's another problem for me; of all these, only the Krups and Braun
are likely to be easily found (or found at all) here; I've never heard of
Mr Coffee, Betty Crocker, or Hamilton Beach (or Caresso; and though I've
heard of Cuisinart, I don't think they're sold here) The idea of a Black
& Decker coffee maker is, well, peculiar; we know them almost exclusively
for DIY tools -- drills, etc.

The main makes likely to be found in English shops include Rowenta,
Gaggia, deLonghi, Morphy Richards, Miele, Braun, Krups, Philips, Kenwood,
Breville, Bosch, Tefal, Russell Hobbs -- well, I've missed a few, but I
think that the most likely a

Braun
deLonghi
Gaggia
Krups
Philips
Rowenta.

I've seen good reviews of the Rowenta CT278, the Philips HD7610, HD7612,
and HD7624, the Braun Flavor Select (and I can now add the review you've
posted), the deLonghi DCR902T Retro, and the Krups Moca Brew (I suspect
that some of the Philips models, expecially, are no longer available).

Can anyone else vouch for or rule out any of these? I'd be very grateful.

Peter

My Braun KF187 is the best drip coffee machine I've ever used beyond
any doubt. I had a Krups ProAroma before this one that I was generally
happy with, but the Braun has taught me just how good a cup of coffee
one can brew with a relatively inexpensive appliance. I use bottled
water and good Costa Rican beans and couldn't possibly be more pleased
with the results. If Braun discontinued this model, shame on them, but
if you can find one, snap it up quickly and you won't be sorry you did.

Mudge

In article . ac.uk,
Peter King wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote [to r.f.d.c.; I've added a.f.c.
in the hope of a wider response]:

Peter King put in a pleas for help on
buying a coffee maker:

Oddly enough, absolutely no one responded. I expected a lot
of responses considering the fervor of most newsgroups.

Actually Scott [Heimdall?] did, but only in terms of general makes
(Philips (and Caressos and Cuisinart, of which more below)); there's been
no response for my follow-up request for models (do *all* Philips do
well, or only certain models?).

[...] The top choice is the Krups ProAroma 12 Time with NaturActiv
Filter Model 453, followed by Black & Decker Kitchen Tools CMKT800, and
Braun FlavorSelect KF 187. The review warns against Mr. Coffee Elite
PRX33, Betty Crocker 12-Cup Auto-Drip BC-1754, and Hamilton Beach Aroma
Express 49271, whose coffee was found "average to awful," "watery," and
"worst tasting coffee of the lot," accordingly.

Now, here's another problem for me; of all these, only the Krups and Braun
are likely to be easily found (or found at all) here; I've never heard of
Mr Coffee, Betty Crocker, or Hamilton Beach (or Caresso; and though I've
heard of Cuisinart, I don't think they're sold here) The idea of a Black
& Decker coffee maker is, well, peculiar; we know them almost exclusively
for DIY tools -- drills, etc.

The main makes likely to be found in English shops include Rowenta,
Gaggia, deLonghi, Morphy Richards, Miele, Braun, Krups, Philips, Kenwood,
Breville, Bosch, Tefal, Russell Hobbs -- well, I've missed a few, but I
think that the most likely a

Braun
deLonghi
Gaggia
Krups
Philips
Rowenta.

I've seen good reviews of the Rowenta CT278, the Philips HD7610, HD7612,
and HD7624, the Braun Flavor Select (and I can now add the review you've
posted), the deLonghi DCR902T Retro, and the Krups Moca Brew (I suspect
that some of the Philips models, expecially, are no longer available).

Can anyone else vouch for or rule out any of these? I'd be very grateful.

Peter

I love my new Kitchenaid Classic 10 cup maker. It brews at 200+, in less
than 7 minutes and costs $39.00 at Lowes.


"Peter King" wrote in message
.ox.ac.uk...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote:

I'm looking for a new drip maker that makes great coffee (of course)
but also is fairly compact. I've had an old Krups that I was happy
with for about 10 years, but its on its last legss.

Just looking for more data to compare.

I've read some web reviews that suggest the Krups 453 and the Braun
KF187 are top makers, but the 453 seems rather bulky and the KF187
seems to be discontinued.

In case replies are being sent off-group, could I put in a plea for the
same information, please? (In my case I'm not so worried about
compactness -- just good coffee.)

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker. What I need is
advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

Thanks in advance,
Peter J. King

--
Dr Peter J. King
Lecturer in Philosophy
Pembroke College
Oxford OX1 1DW

I love my new Kitchenaid Classic 10 cup maker. It brews at 200+, in less
than 7 minutes and costs $39.00 at Lowes.


"Peter King" wrote in message
.ox.ac.uk...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Frank D. Greco wrote:

I'm looking for a new drip maker that makes great coffee (of course)
but also is fairly compact. I've had an old Krups that I was happy
with for about 10 years, but its on its last legss.

Just looking for more data to compare.

I've read some web reviews that suggest the Krups 453 and the Braun
KF187 are top makers, but the 453 seems rather bulky and the KF187
seems to be discontinued.

In case replies are being sent off-group, could I put in a plea for the
same information, please? (In my case I'm not so worried about
compactness -- just good coffee.)

I've tried on-line reviews, and have found them contradictory, and mostly
by people who have just bought their first coffee-maker. What I need is
advice from people who know what they're talking about. My coffee-maker
has just died, also after over ten years service, and I need a simple,
straightforward maker of good filter coffee. I don't want steamed milk,
I don't want clever gadgets that are almost certain to go wrong, I just
want coffee.

Thanks in advance,
Peter J. King

--
Dr Peter J. King
Lecturer in Philosophy
Pembroke College
Oxford OX1 1DW