Hi folks,

I'm curious to learn what specific things you think European cafes
that you have been to have done right or wrong, and what
cafes in the USA you've been to have done right or wrong.
It occurs to me that the only chance for improvement
in the USA is for a free exchange of ideas on this matter,
if American cafe/coffeehouse owners are reading this anyway.

A few ideas:

* It is good to offer a free small biscotto with each coffee
as you see in European cafes, because it is a "little thing
that goes a long way".

* It is good to put mirrors on the walls as you see in
European-style cafes, because it adds more sense
of space; it also acknowledges the reality that humans
go to cafes in part for people-watching.

* It is very bad to seriously demand $6 for a not too large
sandwich, because this activates the miserly instinct of
customers and creates a hidden conflict between
consumers and the business. You see this at
Barnes and Noble's cafe.

Thanks.

On Jun 6, 9:10*am, Flux > wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm curious to learn what specific things you think European cafes
> that you have been to have done right or wrong, and what
> cafes in the USA you've been to have done right or wrong.
> It occurs to me that the only chance for improvement
> in the USA is for a free exchange of ideas on this matter,
> if American cafe/coffeehouse owners are reading this anyway.
>
> A few ideas:
>
> * It is good to offer a free small biscotto with each coffee
> as you see in European cafes, because it is a "little thing
> that goes a long way".
>
> * It is good to put mirrors on the walls as you see in
> European-style cafes, because it adds more sense
> of space; it also acknowledges the reality that humans
> go to cafes in part for people-watching.
>
> * It is very bad to seriously demand $6 for a not too large
> sandwich, because this activates the miserly instinct of
> customers and creates a hidden conflict between
> consumers and the business. You see this at
> Barnes and Noble's cafe.
>
> Thanks.


A few months ago I went to a coffee 'stand' - one could take their
coffee to the seats with an inside view or go to an outside view of
the harbor. On some specific drinks, they were offering a cookie of
your choice. I asked before hand if there were any cookies that were
not included in this offering. I noticed later looking at the check
that we had both been charged extra for the cookie that we had
discussed as being free. The coffee and view were good, so I wasn't
going to quibble.

I didn't buy the drink because of the offering, but if it were free
that would be a good reason for locals to return. I probably would.

I don't frequent Barnes & Noble's cafe and try not to frequent
Borders' cafes. To me, they are depressing in many ways. But the
main reason is that I've never got a satisfactory coffee at either
one.

The few cafes I've been to in Europe were a delight, but certainly not
perfect. My favorite cafes were in Montreal and Tokyo, but that was
because the coffee was good, not because of the ambience.

Dee Dee

On Jun 6, 9:10 am, Flux > wrote:
>
> I'm curious to learn what specific things you think European cafes
> that you have been to have done right or wrong, and what
> cafes in the USA you've been to have done right or wrong.
> It occurs to me that the only chance for improvement
> in the USA is for a free exchange of ideas on this matter,
> if American cafe/coffeehouse owners are reading this anyway.

American cafes, restaurants, as in most of them and apart specialty
coffee houses otherwise for conscientious people in the know -- pretty
much standard fare for watered-down nondescript stale coffee. Even my
own "brewed coffee", though better for beans I've roasted, isn't
especially noteworthy apart general comparisons. Comparatively, I
don't really think much about the taste of coffee I buy out in
establishments -- between varying a lot over a field I wouldn't think
worth mention. I'll drink anything beyond the lower limit of my
cutoff point, which occurs at really rancid, burnt coffee that tastes
as bad as an engine transmission smells.

Drinking coffee for taste doesn't usually occur until made in my
kitchen with the espresso machine on the countertop.

--
In Seattle you haven't had enough coffee until you can thread a sewing
machine while it's running. -Jeff Bezos

Flasherly wrote:


> ...I'll drink anything beyond the lower limit of my
> cutoff point, which occurs at really rancid, burnt coffee that tastes
> as bad as an engine transmission smells.
>
> Drinking coffee for taste doesn't usually occur until made in my
> kitchen with the espresso machine on the countertop.

We have waaay different attitudes toward drinking coffee. Drinking
coffee for taste is the *only* reason that i drink coffee - even if it
means bringing my own home roast into work each day (and it does). I
don't order coffee in restaurants because I'm pretty much guaranteed to
leave it barely touched because I find it unacceptable. YMMV.

Tony V.

On Jun 10, 7:29 pm, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
>
> We have waaay different attitudes toward drinking coffee. Drinking
> coffee for taste is the *only* reason that i drink coffee - even if it
> means bringing my own home roast into work each day (and it does). I
> don't order coffee in restaurants because I'm pretty much guaranteed to
> leave it barely touched because I find it unacceptable. YMMV.

Noooo -- we don't. I didn't say how much I drink -- a cup may seem
unacceptable to you, although comparatively, to me anyway, it puts my
level of unacceptability closer to you, than, say, drinking the whole
pot, which I've been known to do some distant ages long ago.

Besides, who's to say it's a restaurant. What if I'm hanging out in a
transmission shop? I'm not too proud to deny I had a half a cup at a
dealership the other day, after stopping by late morning to ream out
their title/prep guy. One of those nasty Mr. Coffee things obsequious
to transacting obscure corners placed in most businesses, even if I
wasn't complaining in particular about its horrid taste.

At a restaurant, though to be fairer, I may have half-a-cup refill
more, or even two cups. Besides, somebody has to help defray runaway
commodity and energy prices to operate an establishment these days.
Certainly isn't the cute gals serving bubbling outgoing friendliness
to me -- certainly not at a quarter or less change gratuity above a
couple bucks I leave for the price of a coffee.

You know what's the really sad part about all this, the shame. . .what
I were ask one of them home, say she drinks coffee, and offer her an
espresso once we're comfortably seated on the white leather couch
before a glass-top coffee table. I've got to think twice and be very
careful about doing that, as there's some likelihood she'll never have
had a cup prepared Italian style. The reaction may be one unfounded
aversion to sheer strangeness and false, though a common presumption
espresso is entirely too strong and extraordinarily "loaded up" with
caffeine.

--
They don't get that way for nothing. -Anon.

"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
. ..
> don't order coffee in restaurants because I'm pretty much guaranteed to
> leave it barely touched because I find it unacceptable. YMMV.
>
> Tony V.

I'll never order espresso from a restaurant, but that's because I know how
it can look inside a restaurant maintained machine, "with their annual
check-ups".

On Jun 13, 6:58 am, "ss" > wrote:
> "Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
>
> . ..
>
> > don't order coffee in restaurants because I'm pretty much guaranteed to
> > leave it barely touched because I find it unacceptable. YMMV.
>
> > Tony V.
>
> I'll never order espresso from a restaurant, but that's because I know how
> it can look inside a restaurant maintained machine, "with their annual
> check-ups".

I tried my first restaurant shot a few weeks ago. Noticing a colored
chalkboard describing variously sweetened concoctions loosely grouped
for espresso, and beneath, the back of what I suspect may have been a
commercial machine, being what actually caught my eye. Enough to have
a closer look, briefly of what I could, around the counter at the
front, when the proprietor approached -- 'Sure,' I said, 'except I'd
like a straight espresso'. She actually apologized, a brief
nondescript mention, before putting in perhaps an Illy POD and
extracting a watery stream of foam. Being with visitor from CA, a
young soldier who had followed me over for the game -- confessing to
me a general like of coffee, presumably I took that to mean brewed,
though he requested the same -- I thought best in turn apologize to
him, that it 'oughn't be in any sense a lasting impression for
espresso.'