Does anyone *know* about whether Guinness really do blend
pasteurised Brettanomyces-infected beer into any of their stouts.
Googling hits repeated replications of a quote from Martin Lodahl
that suggests they do, but there is very little corroboration.

Brendan
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

Brendan Halpin wrote:
Does anyone *know* about whether Guinness really do blend
pasteurised Brettanomyces-infected beer into any of their stouts.
Googling hits repeated replications of a quote from Martin Lodahl
that suggests they do, but there is very little corroboration.
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland

You know who would know? The folks that brew it. All
you have to do is find somebody who lives in Ireland and
have him or her knock up the brewers and ask.
--
Joel Plutchak "People who drink wine with barbecue deserve to be
plutchak@[...] jeered at and socially ostracized." - Mike Stewart

ers (Joel) writes:

Brendan Halpin wrote:
Does anyone *know* about whether Guinness really do blend
pasteurised Brettanomyces-infected beer into any of their stouts.
Googling hits repeated replications of a quote from Martin Lodahl
that suggests they do, but there is very little corroboration.
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland

You know who would know? The folks that brew it. All
you have to do is find somebody who lives in Ireland and
have him or her knock up the brewers and ask.

There's geography and there's networks, so it's not as near as that
in social space. And they seem a secretive bunch, those Guinness
technologist-brewers (just ask Gossett). No brewery tours, just a
Guinness-image museum.

B
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

Brendan Halpin a écrit :

Does anyone *know* about whether Guinness really do blend
pasteurised Brettanomyces-infected beer into any of their stouts.
Googling hits repeated replications of a quote from Martin Lodahl
that suggests they do, but there is very little corroboration.

Dublin Brewed Guinness Foreign Extra reportedly is a mix of an aged beer
with a younger brew. It does have a slight "horse blanket" edge to it.


--
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

Chien, cette nuit je fis un splendide cauchemar : c'était une rue, et chacun de ses deux trottoirs avait un potentiel énergétique différent !! et dix harengs !
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

The Submarine Captain writes:

Brendan Halpin a écrit :

Does anyone *know* about whether Guinness really do blend
pasteurised Brettanomyces-infected beer into any of their stouts.
Googling hits repeated replications of a quote from Martin Lodahl
that suggests they do, but there is very little corroboration.

Dublin Brewed Guinness Foreign Extra reportedly is a mix of an aged
beer with a younger brew. It does have a slight "horse blanket"
edge to it.

That's the one consistent note in all the myth. Even Wheeler and
Protz say so. I must get hold of some again. But somehow I cannot
see it (memories of the abandonment of bottle conditioning make me
sceptical).

Brendan
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

"Joel" wrote in message
...

You know who would know? The folks that brew it. All
you have to do is find somebody who lives in Ireland and
have him or her knock up the brewers and ask.

You mean like, I'm not going to stay with you and you're going to have to
raise the baby alone if you don't tell me the secret of Guinness and
Brettanomyces?

-Steve

Steve Jackson wrote:
"Joel" wrote in message
...

You know who would know? The folks that brew it. All
you have to do is find somebody who lives in Ireland and
have him or her knock up the brewers and ask.

You mean like, I'm not going to stay with you and you're going to have to
raise the baby alone if you don't tell me the secret of Guinness and
Brettanomyces?

Whew. I was starting to worry that nobody would
take the bait. Good on ya.
--
Joel Plutchak "People who drink wine with barbecue deserve to be
plutchak@[...] jeered at and socially ostracized." - Mike Stewart

For reference, I found this quoted in HBD #2672:

"Foreign Extra Stout, FES
for short, ... is stored in the [two old oak] vats for one
to three months where it picks up lactic flavours from the action
of wild Brettanomyces yeasts. This is stale beer in the historic
meaning of the word. It is blended with young stout and then the
bottles are stored for another month before being released for
sale."
Protz,R.,The Ale Trail,Eric Dobby Publishing, Kent, 1995. pp174-6.

Pretty specific, but I still have my doubts. Still, I know where I
can pick up a few bottles on my way home...

Brendan
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

Brendan Halpin writes:

For reference, I found this quoted in HBD #2672:

"Foreign Extra Stout, FES
for short, ... is stored in the [two old oak] vats for one
to three months where it picks up lactic flavours from the action
of wild Brettanomyces yeasts. This is stale beer in the historic
meaning of the word. It is blended with young stout and then the
bottles are stored for another month before being released for
sale."
Protz,R.,The Ale Trail,Eric Dobby Publishing, Kent, 1995. pp174-6.

Pretty specific, but I still have my doubts. Still, I know where I
can pick up a few bottles on my way home...

.... and I can certainly say that it has a background tartness that
makes for excellent balance (unlike, say, beers I've brewed at this
sort of ABV which verged on cloying). I can't say that I detect
anything specifically equine, but it is about 12 hours past the
ideal tasting time. (Note to self: save other bottle for Saturday
elevenses.)

Brendan
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

Brendan Halpin a écrit :

The Submarine Captain writes:



Brendan Halpin a écrit :



Does anyone *know* about whether Guinness really do blend
pasteurised Brettanomyces-infected beer into any of their stouts.
Googling hits repeated replications of a quote from Martin Lodahl
that suggests they do, but there is very little corroboration.



Dublin Brewed Guinness Foreign Extra reportedly is a mix of an aged
beer with a younger brew. It does have a slight "horse blanket"
edge to it.



That's the one consistent note in all the myth. Even Wheeler and
Protz say so. I must get hold of some again. But somehow I cannot
see it (memories of the abandonment of bottle conditioning make me
sceptical).


Note that they mention *aging*, not specifically brettanomyces. Even
older bottles of Lion Stout (from Sri Lanka) do tend to develop such an
edge over time.

--
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

Aah, on voit bien qu'il n'est plus que l'ombre de lui-même... Il s'en va avant même que l'on commence à se disputer !
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

The Submarine Captain wrote in
:

Brendan Halpin a écrit :

The Submarine Captain writes:



Brendan Halpin a écrit :



Does anyone *know* about whether Guinness really do blend
pasteurised Brettanomyces-infected beer into any of their
stouts. Googling hits repeated replications of a quote
from Martin Lodahl that suggests they do, but there is
very little corroboration.


Note that they mention *aging*, not specifically
brettanomyces. Even older bottles of Lion Stout (from Sri
Lanka) do tend to develop such an edge over time.

I suppose the use of Brett is possible, but I doubt they go
to the trouble, 'specially nowadays.

I don't get horse out of Guinness. Everything I taste can be
attributed to malt bill, FG, and serving process.



Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

Scott Kaczorowski wrote:
The Submarine Captain wrote in
Brendan Halpin a écrit :
The Submarine Captain writes:
Brendan Halpin a écrit :
Does anyone *know* about whether Guinness really do blend
pasteurised Brettanomyces-infected beer into any of their
stouts. Googling hits repeated replications of a quote
from Martin Lodahl that suggests they do, but there is
very little corroboration.

Note that they mention *aging*, not specifically
brettanomyces. Even older bottles of Lion Stout (from Sri
Lanka) do tend to develop such an edge over time.

I suppose the use of Brett is possible, but I doubt they go
to the trouble, 'specially nowadays.

I don't get horse out of Guinness. Everything I taste can be
attributed to malt bill, FG, and serving process.

That's the rub. Back not too many years ago, before
Guinness was pasteurized, if there was Brett in the
beer it wouldn't gotten progressively more intense, no?
--
Joel Plutchak "People who drink wine with barbecue deserve to be
plutchak@[...] jeered at and socially ostracized." - Mike Stewart

ers (Joel) wrote in
:

Scott Kaczorowski wrote:
I don't get horse out of Guinness. Everything I taste can
be attributed to malt bill, FG, and serving process.

That's the rub. Back not too many years ago, before
Guinness was pasteurized,

How many years was that?

if there was Brett in the
beer it wouldn't gotten progressively more intense, no?

Huh?

I suppose Guinness used (or more likely, had to live with)
Brett (hence that whole blending thing in the bad old
days)...but as Superkid would say: "I don't get you." Have
you (all) noticed an intensifaction of horse in Guinness?

Are you implying that they use it and it gets knocked off at
the desired level during pateurization? Are you implying
that I can find super-horsey old kegs of Guinness somewhere?
If the latter, PLEASE let me know where - that's worth
airfare. If the former, I think you're full of horseshit. I
don't "get" horse in Guinness of any label/package that is
available to me.

As an aside, I have used Brett and my limited experience is
that it does not go logarithmic over time. It's contribution
is relatively short but stable in the long term.



Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

Scott Kaczorowski wrote:
(Joel) wrote:
Scott Kaczorowski wrote:
I don't get horse out of Guinness. Everything I taste can
be attributed to malt bill, FG, and serving process.

That's the rub. Back not too many years ago, before
Guinness was pasteurized,

How many years was that?

if there was Brett in the
beer it wouldn't gotten progressively more intense, no?

Huh?

I suppose Guinness used (or more likely, had to live with)
Brett (hence that whole blending thing in the bad old
days)...but as Superkid would say: "I don't get you." Have
you (all) noticed an intensifaction of horse in Guinness?

Are you implying that they use it and it gets knocked off at
the desired level during pateurization? Are you implying
that I can find super-horsey old kegs of Guinness somewhere?
If the latter, PLEASE let me know where - that's worth
airfare. If the former, I think you're full of horseshit. I
don't "get" horse in Guinness of any label/package that is
available to me.

No, my point is simple. Brett doesn't need oxygen,
and can eat just about anything. If the olf Guinness
had Brett, and wasn't pasteurized, the Brett would
continue to work, and old Giunes [sic] would've been
a vary variable beast, getting more horsey as it aged.
Since I (and from lack of reportage, nobody else either)
never encountered that, there was ipso facto no Brett
in Guinness.

As an aside, I have used Brett and my limited experience is
that it does not go logarithmic over time. It's contribution
is relatively short but stable in the long term.

That's not been my experience. But I will have to tap
the keg of plambic that's been sitting in my basement
for about six years to see what has happened to it.
--
Joel Plutchak "People who drink wine with barbecue deserve to be
plutchak@[...] jeered at and socially ostracized." - Mike Stewart

ers (Joel) writes:

No, my point is simple. Brett doesn't need oxygen,
and can eat just about anything. If the olf Guinness
had Brett, and wasn't pasteurized, the Brett would
continue to work, and old Giunes [sic] would've been
a vary variable beast, getting more horsey as it aged.
Since I (and from lack of reportage, nobody else either)
never encountered that, there was ipso facto no Brett
in Guinness.

Joel,

I took your earlier advice (after a fashion) and much to my
surprise got a result:

From:
Subject: 189328
To:
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:54:08 GMT

Dear Brendan

Many thanks for your recent e-mail.

Please see the following information regarding "Soured beer" in FES.

In the past, a version of FES was indeed produced using a
Brettanomyces maturation step. With changes in the fermentation
regime in the 1980s, this practice was discontinued. There is
indeed an acidified beer blended into FES in production - a
bacterial culture is used to acidify this.

I trust that this information will be useful to you.

Kind regards

Linda - Consumer Helpline

My surprise at getting real facts out of a consumer-oriented
big-beer-brand website is only exceeded by the pleasure of having
my curiosity satisfied.

Brendan
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html