"The Submarine Captain" wrote in message
...

Ah right... thanks for the precisions Steve. I assume this situation
with brewers using ABV and brewers using ABW does little in terms of
easing the average consumer's confusion ?...

Very little. And it's not just the States. It's what prompts Canadians to
claim their beer is so much stronger than American, never mind the fact that
the respective ABW and ABV values end up coming out to show startlingly
similar levels of alcohol.

-Steve

wrote in message
et...

This whole thread seems to be some sort of "retro pre-internet" 20 year
old thread. MOST of the US beers I see these days have alcohol content
listed on the label (and it happened quietly and without much fanfare,
IIRC)- I didn't realize that it was still a state-by-state thing.

Most American beers? I remain skeptical.

It's less of a state-by-state thing, but that's a recent development. It's
only in the last couple years that the Supreme Court weighed in saying that
states can't prohibit the display of that info, as some did. Or the bureau
formerly known as the ATF. Can't remember whose rule was struck down, the
states' or theirs.

But, since I take it the Submarine Captain isn't in the US, one can't
expect him to know this.

He's Swiss.

-Steve

Steve Jackson wrote:

wrote in message
et...


This whole thread seems to be some sort of "retro pre-internet" 20 year
old thread. MOST of the US beers I see these days have alcohol content
listed on the label (and it happened quietly and without much fanfare,
IIRC)- I didn't realize that it was still a state-by-state thing.


Most American beers? I remain skeptical.

No, no, remain skeptical, I said "most of the US beers I see..." by
which I meant "whose labels I bother to read" since technically I do
'see' all those doors of A-B, Miller, Pabst and Coors brands. I WAS
surprised to see it listed on A-B brands.

I only mentioned it because the OP in Calif. DIDN'T find it on the beers
he was looking at.

It's less of a state-by-state thing, but that's a recent development. It's
only in the last couple years that the Supreme Court weighed in saying that
states can't prohibit the display of that info, as some did. Or the bureau
formerly known as the ATF. Can't remember whose rule was struck down, the
states' or theirs.

IIRC, didn't Coors (or Miller) go to court over not being able to list
alc. content a few years ago? I thought that's what did it.



But, since I take it the Submarine Captain isn't in the US, one can't
expect him to know this.

He's Swiss.


I understand. (Hey, so was the first "Kidden" in the America, circa
1740...)

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:36:46 -0700, "Steve Jackson"
wrote:

"The Submarine Captain" wrote in message
...


IIRC it's usual to use ABW instead of ABV in the USA

Mainly in the "maintstream" beers. Pretty much every craft brewery that
lists it does so by volume, at least from what I've seen.

The large brewers, if they label, will usually do so by weight. Largely
because certain states - Minnesota and Oklahoma come to mind - allow sales
of only "three-two" beer in groceries and the like, and stronger beers have
to be sold in liquor stores. The three-two beers reference the max alcohol
content, measured in ABW, of 3.2 that is allowed to be sold in groceries.
Since they often had to brew different versions of their beers to reflect
that, it became customary for a time to list by weight.

I guess the big brewers like A-B and Coors don't export beer, they own
subsidiaries who brew beer for local markets. Any beer sold in the EU
has to have the ABV stated on the bottle (and the 'Best before' date).
US craft brewers are obviously interested in selling beer in
international markets so use ABV.

Best regards, Paul

--
Paul Sherwin Consulting http://paulsherwin.co.uk

Paul Sherwin wrote:


I guess the big brewers like A-B and Coors don't export beer, they own
subsidiaries who brew beer for local markets. Any beer sold in the EU
has to have the ABV stated on the bottle (and the 'Best before' date).


I don't know- I'd guess that the small amount of craft brew that's
exported from the US probably has separate labels from the stuff they
sell at home, to meet the particular rules of the importing countries.
Certainly most of the imports we get obviously are labeled for the US
(including some who leave the BEST BEFORE date off the bottle, even tho'
there's a place for it on the label).

US craft brewers are obviously interested in selling beer in
international markets so use ABV.

I'd say that's a small percentage of the total craft brewers- most can't
even handle shipping their beers one or two states away...

But, getting back to original question (so, NO store clerks read this
newsgroup? We really have to wait until someone goes to the store
tomorrow and check out the megabrew labels?) do ANY US beers that DO
list alcohol content still use ABW (other than in 3.2 states)?

"Paul Sherwin" wrote in message
...

I guess the big brewers like A-B and Coors don't export beer, they own
subsidiaries who brew beer for local markets. Any beer sold in the EU
has to have the ABV stated on the bottle (and the 'Best before' date).
US craft brewers are obviously interested in selling beer in
international markets so use ABV.

Label requirements are different for different countries, anyway, so they're
likely to have separate labels for the foreign markets. For instance, A-B
isn't allowed to call Bud "Budweiser" in most of Europe, so they have to
have containers that simply say Bud.

-Steve

wrote in message
et...

IIRC, didn't Coors (or Miller) go to court over not being able to list
alc. content a few years ago? I thought that's what did it.

Sounds about right. I don't recall the case history for sure. I know Coors
has been involved in some other legal issues due to their concentrate method
of beer production.

-Steve

a écrit :

He's Swiss.


I understand. (Hey, so was the first "Kidden" in the America, circa
1740...)

Ah, right... glad to virtually shake hands with the distant offspring of
one of my fellow countrymen, then. )
Indeed over the centuries many Swiss people left the country because
their local communities couldn't sustain them anymore.

On the other hand, 1740 is not that long after my own ancestors arrived
in Switzerland... like tenth of thousands of French Huguenots
(protestants), who were suddenly denied the very right to live on French
soil. It was a massive boost to protestant Europe, as many of the
Huguenots who had the financial means to leave were merchants, doctors,
printers, chemists, lawyers, weavers etc. and brought their trade and
know-how with them.

Immigration and emigration have always been part of European history as
well, not just American, sometimes on a massive scale. It's fact far too
many Europeans (and Swiss too) tend to forget... and anyway, it's though
European emigration that beer spread over the world, too )

Cheers !

Laurent

--
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

- C'est étranche, che ne reconnais plus rien...
- Vous ne m'étonnez pas, ici, vous êtes sur le Mont Blanc ! 4807 m. Et tout ça, c'est de la faute à Gilette !! ... Cette idiote a coincé son canard en celluloïd dans l'écoulement de la baignoire... ça a débordé. Et surtout que le robinet est bloqué...
- MAIS CHLAI PAS FAIT EXPREEEES !
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:58:33 -0700, "Steve Jackson"
wrote:

"Paul Sherwin" wrote in message
...

I guess the big brewers like A-B and Coors don't export beer, they own
subsidiaries who brew beer for local markets. Any beer sold in the EU
has to have the ABV stated on the bottle (and the 'Best before' date).
US craft brewers are obviously interested in selling beer in
international markets so use ABV.

Label requirements are different for different countries, anyway, so they're
likely to have separate labels for the foreign markets. For instance, A-B
isn't allowed to call Bud "Budweiser" in most of Europe, so they have to
have containers that simply say Bud.

A-B own plants all over the place, and also have beer contract brewed
for some markets. They own the old Watneys brewery at Mortlake, West
London where they brew UK 'Budweiser' (ABV 5%, a bottled beer). They
also brew Irish 'Budweiser' in Ireland (ABV4.3%, a draft beer).

Best regards, Paul
--
Paul Sherwin Consulting http://paulsherwin.co.uk

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:55:46 +0200, The Submarine Captain
wrote:

On the other hand, 1740 is not that long after my own ancestors arrived
in Switzerland... like tenth of thousands of French Huguenots
(protestants), who were suddenly denied the very right to live on French
soil. It was a massive boost to protestant Europe, as many of the
Huguenots who had the financial means to leave were merchants, doctors,
printers, chemists, lawyers, weavers etc. and brought their trade and
know-how with them.

Lots of them came to England, and were important in the growth of the
English economy in the eighteenth century, especially textiles.

Best regards, Paul
--
Paul Sherwin Consulting http://paulsherwin.co.uk

Paul Sherwin a écrit :

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:55:46 +0200, The Submarine Captain
wrote:



On the other hand, 1740 is not that long after my own ancestors arrived
in Switzerland... like tenth of thousands of French Huguenots
(protestants), who were suddenly denied the very right to live on French
soil. It was a massive boost to protestant Europe, as many of the
Huguenots who had the financial means to leave were merchants, doctors,
printers, chemists, lawyers, weavers etc. and brought their trade and
know-how with them.



Lots of them came to England, and were important in the growth of the
English economy in the eighteenth century, especially textiles.


Yup, the silk trade, notably, was almost entirely created by this wave
of immigrants... Nvertheless, contemporary accounts show that these
refugees did not receive too warm a welcome in the placed where they
settled.

--
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

... je me suis souvent demandé à quoi servaient les deux machins tordus que j'ai sur la tête... Maintenant je sais : ça sert à donner des coups !
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

"Steve Jackson" wrote in message
news:1_wyc.14892$K45.3871@fed1read02...
wrote in message
IIRC, didn't Coors (or Miller) go to court over not being able to list
alc. content a few years ago? I thought that's what did it.

Coors.

Sounds about right. I don't recall the case history for sure. I know Coors
has been involved in some other legal issues due to their concentrate
method
of beer production.

"Concentrate method?" That's Budweiserian for "high gravity method," right?

--
Lew Bryson

www.LewBryson.com
Author of "New York Breweries" and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., both
available at www.amazon.com
The Hotmail address on this post is for newsgroups only: I don't check it,
or respond to it. Spam away.

"Lew Bryson" wrote in message
. com...

"Concentrate method?" That's Budweiserian for "high gravity method,"
right?

It's Jacksonian for "I couldn't remember the proper term and came up with
something that communicated the jist."

-Steve

"Steve Jackson" wrote in message
news:l5tzc.4121$US1.2856@fed1read02...
"Lew Bryson" wrote in message
. com...

"Concentrate method?" That's Budweiserian for "high gravity method,"
right?

It's Jacksonian for "I couldn't remember the proper term and came up with
something that communicated the jist."

-Steve


wouldn't that be "something that communicated the giss."
giz gyz

"What?" wrote in message
news:h4uzc.93012$3x.53456@attbi_s54...

It's Jacksonian for "I couldn't remember the proper term and came up
with
something that communicated the jist."

-Steve


wouldn't that be "something that communicated the giss."
giz gyz

Try gist...

Brian