I've seen it described as a North German Pilsener (like a Beck's, as opposed
to Bohemian pilseners like Pilsener Urquell.) But it doesn't seem hoppy
enough to be a pils.

I've also seen it described as a Muencher Helles. But it tastes much drier
to me than the Spaten, which is the original helles.


--
Henry Eichel

hse_66 a écrit :

I've seen it described as a North German Pilsener (like a Beck's, as opposed
to Bohemian pilseners like Pilsener Urquell.)

B*ll*cks. Uttering such a thing in a Bavarian Kneipe could see you
landing head first on the pavement...

But it doesn't seem hoppy enough to be a pils.


Indeed. And it's in no way "North German" in style

I've also seen it described as a Muencher Helles. But it tastes much drier
to me than the Spaten, which is the original helles.


It's a Helles. And it's a Muenchner helles, obviously, being brewed in
Munich...
Besides, Spaten is not necessarily the original Helles either, since the
style has changed over the decades due to changes in brewing methods.
Same for Pilsner Urquell, which certainly is in no way like what in was
in the 1840s...
Basically it's very hard to call anything "the original insert style",
because that would imply the product hasn't evolved since it was first
brewed.

Cheers !

Laurent

--
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

Tiens, moi quand je lis des trucs pareils, ça me fiche mal au turban...
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

Je vous remercie pour les infos. Vous avez l'air de s'y connaître. Mais
comment la Pilsner Urquell a changée-t-il depuis les années 1840,
sauriez-vous? (C'est une de mes bières préférées.)

Salut!

henry


--
Henry Eichel







"The Submarine Captain" wrote in message
...
hse_66 a écrit :

I've seen it described as a North German Pilsener (like a Beck's, as
opposed
to Bohemian pilseners like Pilsener Urquell.)

B*ll*cks. Uttering such a thing in a Bavarian Kneipe could see you
landing head first on the pavement...

But it doesn't seem hoppy enough to be a pils.


Indeed. And it's in no way "North German" in style

I've also seen it described as a Muencher Helles. But it tastes much
drier
to me than the Spaten, which is the original helles.


It's a Helles. And it's a Muenchner helles, obviously, being brewed in
Munich...
Besides, Spaten is not necessarily the original Helles either, since the
style has changed over the decades due to changes in brewing methods.
Same for Pilsner Urquell, which certainly is in no way like what in was
in the 1840s...
Basically it's very hard to call anything "the original insert style",
because that would imply the product hasn't evolved since it was first
brewed.

Cheers !

Laurent

--
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

Tiens, moi quand je lis des trucs pareils, ça me fiche mal au turban...
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

hse_66 a écrit :

Je vous remercie pour les infos. Vous avez l'air de s'y connaître. Mais
comment la Pilsner Urquell a changée-t-il depuis les années 1840,
sauriez-vous? (C'est une de mes bières préférées.)


['scuse me, but I'll keep on with english, this being an
english-speaking newsgroup... if you wat to discuss beer in french,
fr.rec.boissons.bieres is the place]

How has Pilsner Urquell changed since the 1840s ?

Hard to tell for sure but I'd suggest a few possible evolutions :

- Lowering of alcohol percentage : it's 4.4% ABV, nowadays, whereas it
probably was more on the lines of 6%+ ABV at the time, given its success
as an export product, when transports were a lot slower and less
reliable in terms of temperature stability than they are now.

- Along the alcohol %, the hop rate is certainly lower nowadays than it
was at the time. And we have no reliable info as to the alpha acid
contents of 19th-Century hops compared to what they are now, which means
that, even with recipes of the era available, it's not possible to tell
how bitter /hoppy the beer really was.

- The yeast strain has certainly evolved as well. The fermentation
process is more controlled than it was at the time... rather : it is
mastered nowadays, whereas at the time it was merely based on empirical
- if sound and worthy of respect - experience. Though in what exactly it
all has changed the taste would be very tricky to tell. (disappearing of
a slight sharpish tang ?)

- The type of vessel used for brewing and maturing the beer also has
animportance. In particular, I've been told that up to the early 90s, PU
was matured in huge wooden vats, which would certainly have left their
mark on the taste of the beer (woody / slight sour edge).

This whole "what did the beer really taste like at the time" question is
one of the big question marks that's been keeping beer historians busy
for decades.
There for example still are controversies raging about what 18th Century
porter really looked and tasted like. Enthusiast groups such as the
Durden Park Beer Circle in London have researched the matter, bringing
in a wonderful input about how to recreate historical beers, but there's
still a lot of question marks left... Captivating stuff !

Cheers !

Laurent


--
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

.... Il bafouillait énormément, et de chacun des ses postillons naquit un des premiers moutons !!
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

"The Submarine Captain" schreef in bericht
...
hse_66 a écrit :

- The type of vessel used for brewing and maturing the beer also has
animportance. In particular, I've been told that up to the early 90s, PU
was matured in huge wooden vats, which would certainly have left their
mark on the taste of the beer (woody / slight sour edge).

There's more. Until the mid nineties, not only the maturing was done in
those subterranean tunnels full of vats, there was also a very particular
part-gyling system. There was a quick initial fermentation for a part of the
beer only, to get the yeast started. Then the full volume was getting
fermented, only to be Krausened later on. All PU was a mix of pilsener of
different 'ages' of fermentation.
joris

Fascinating stuff! Thanks very much.


"The Submarine Captain" wrote in message
...
hse_66 a écrit :

"hse_66" wrote in message
m...

I've seen it described as a North German Pilsener (like a Beck's, as
opposed
to Bohemian pilseners like Pilsener Urquell.) But it doesn't seem hoppy
enough to be a pils.

I've also seen it described as a Muencher Helles. But it tastes much
drier
to me than the Spaten, which is the original helles.

Not sure if Spaten is actually the original helles, but even if it is,
there's a wide range of character within the style. There's a wide range
amongst the Munich breweries alone, let alone the dozens or hundreds of
examples found elsewhere throughout Bavaria and Austria. Some are very malty
and sweet. Some are quite dry and crisp. My favorite, Augustiner, is even
drier than Paulaner. But it still has that classic malt character that makes
a helles a helles.

-Steve