Passport to the Pub
The Tourist's Guide to Pub Etiquette by Kate Fox

From
http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html , a scientific description of
British pub behaviour
(also as PDF at http://www.sirc.org/publik/passport.pdf ) Definitely
worth reading for any pubgoer.


blockquote
One of the saddest sights of the British summer (or the funniest,
depending on your sense of humour) is the group of thirsty tourists
sitting at a table in a pub, patiently waiting for someone to come and
take their order. In most cases, a friendly native will put them out of
their misery by explaining rule number one, or they will figure it out
for themselves, but in a busy pub it can be some time before the correct
procedure becomes clear.

....

Research findings: In observation-studies, we timed first-time tourists
to find out exactly how long it would take them to discover the
no-waiter-service rule. The fastest time - just under two-and-a-half
minutes - was achieved by a sharp-eyed American couple. The slowest –
over 45 minutes – involved a group of six young Italians. This group did
not, however, seem particularly concerned about the apparent lack of
service, being engrossed in a lively debate about football. Sympathy
should go to the French couple who marched out of the pub, complaining
bitterly to each other about the poor service and British manners in
general, after a 24-minute wait. /blockquote

"Tim Vanhoof" wrote in message ...
Passport to the Pub
The Tourist's Guide to Pub Etiquette by Kate Fox

I bought this book when it was published in 1996.

Quite amusing, until I got to this bit, on p52:

=====
The organisers of a three-day Real Ale festival in Belfast
claimed that the event was "a great success", boasting that they
had run out of beer during the final day. But local drinkers, when
we asked for their comments, pointed out that the beer was free.
"People here will drink anything if it's given to them for nothing" said
one cynical pubgoer.
=====

In fact the beer wasn't free, but admission to the hall was free
on the last day because there wasn't much beer left. I know this
because was there all week, as a volunteer.


Robin

Following up to Tim Vanhoof

One of the saddest sights of the British summer (or the funniest,
depending on your sense of humour) is the group of thirsty tourists
sitting at a table in a pub, patiently waiting for someone to come and
take their order.

I wonder how unaware people are of the service arrangements in
pubs? I suppose if they see people bringing food to tables they
could well be confused.
Do people really not spot people waiting at the bar and the lack
of any waiters? People bringing back their drinks?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

blockquote
One of the saddest sights of the British summer (or the funniest,
depending on your sense of humour) is the group of thirsty tourists
sitting at a table in a pub, patiently waiting for someone to come and
take their order. In most cases, a friendly native will put them out of
their misery by explaining rule number one, or they will figure it out
for themselves, but in a busy pub it can be some time before the correct
procedure becomes clear.

Most British landlords worth their salt will approach the group and
ask them whether they will be ordering a drink , or whether they just
want to put their feet up at his expense.

That usually resolves the problem quite quickly.
Dave

In article , Reid©
writes
Following up to Tim Vanhoof

One of the saddest sights of the British summer (or the funniest,
depending on your sense of humour) is the group of thirsty tourists
sitting at a table in a pub, patiently waiting for someone to come and
take their order.

I wonder how unaware people are of the service arrangements in
pubs? I suppose if they see people bringing food to tables they
could well be confused.
Do people really not spot people waiting at the bar and the lack
of any waiters? People bringing back their drinks?

Efficient waiter service would be a good idea at several of the UK's
busier pubs.

I've been to several where there are literally hundreds of people
sitting outside, not drinking, and dozens more inside, not drinking.
Those outside are waiting for those inside to order from the 2-3 staff
that are taking their own sweet time.

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

Reid© wrote in message . ..
Following up to Tim Vanhoof

One of the saddest sights of the British summer (or the funniest,
depending on your sense of humour) is the group of thirsty tourists
sitting at a table in a pub, patiently waiting for someone to come and
take their order.

I wonder how unaware people are of the service arrangements in
pubs? I suppose if they see people bringing food to tables they
could well be confused.
Do people really not spot people waiting at the bar and the lack
of any waiters? People bringing back their drinks?

It takes a finite amount of time. The confusion comes in that
it is not uncommon for folks in other lands to order from the
bar, especially if they aren't planning on using a table (playing
pool, darts, whatever). So just because I see someone ordering
from the bar, doesn't mean it is what I need to do. Furthermore,
if they are anticipating food orders, many bars "over here"
don't want you to order from the bar so that the table service
can earn their keep. I've been "waived off" so to speak over here
when attempting to order from the bar when there was table service.
The final confusion of course is that pubs on this side of the
pond (those english and irish "themed" pubs) often DO have table
service. So one doesn't necessarily go in expecting it to be much
different. Like I said, it takes a finite amount of time to figure
out the system.

(Tim Vanhoof) wrote in message ...
Passport to the Pub
The Tourist's Guide to Pub Etiquette by Kate Fox

The slowest –
over 45 minutes – involved a group of six young Italians. This group did
not, however, seem particularly concerned about the apparent lack of
service, being engrossed in a lively debate about football.

I doubt that they were confused about the service, since in many
Italian bars self-service is the rule. And sitting at a table
chatting for 45 minutes without ordering anything is also not unknown
in Italy....

In message , me
writes
It takes a finite amount of time. The confusion comes in that
it is not uncommon for folks in other lands to order from the
bar, especially if they aren't planning on using a table (playing
pool, darts, whatever). So just because I see someone ordering
from the bar, doesn't mean it is what I need to do. Furthermore,
if they are anticipating food orders, many bars "over here"
don't want you to order from the bar so that the table service
can earn their keep. I've been "waived off" so to speak over here
when attempting to order from the bar when there was table service.
The final confusion of course is that pubs on this side of the
pond (those english and irish "themed" pubs) often DO have table
service. So one doesn't necessarily go in expecting it to be much
different. Like I said, it takes a finite amount of time to figure
out the system.

I've been to Belgian bars where table service makes no sense. The
heaving crowd standing in the Kettle bar in Ghent could not possibly be
served that way. Any time there are no tables or spaces at the bar
tracking your tab becomes much harder and bar service and instant
payment becomes the norm.

Paying for each round immediately is pretty common anyway, for everyone
but tourists. It can save a serious amount of time & frustration when
you're ready to leave each bar in my experience.

I think you're right, foreigners expect to have the choice and for some
reason tourists choose the table+table service option wherever they are
(including the brits abroad).

The French are a whole different story, they never seem to be interested
in getting served anyway, they just seem to want a place to sit and
enjoy a smoke. Or maybe its just the ones I've seen
--
Paul Shirley: email anti-spammed

"Tim Vanhoof" wrote in message
...
Passport to the Pub
The Tourist's Guide to Pub Etiquette by Kate Fox

From
http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html , a scientific description of
British pub behaviour
Research findings: In observation-studies, we timed first-time tourists
to find out exactly how long it would take them to discover the
no-waiter-service rule

The problem is that this isn't quite true. Waiter service is rare nowadays,
although it used to be very common in large multi-roomed pubs in which not
every room had a bar. It still exists in a few places, most notably the tiny
number of pubs which have no bar or beer pumps, in which beer is served by
gravity from barrels kept in a cellar or tap room. An example is the Lord
Nelson at Burnham Thorpe, where you come in, sit down (or stand around) and
the gaffer asks you what you want. He then goes off with tray and glasses to
fetch your beer.

Alan Harrison

"congokid" wrote in message
...
In article , Reid©
writes
Following up to Tim Vanhoof

One of the saddest sights of the British summer (or the funniest,
depending on your sense of humour) is the group of thirsty tourists
sitting at a table in a pub, patiently waiting for someone to come and
take their order.

I wonder how unaware people are of the service arrangements in
pubs? I suppose if they see people bringing food to tables they
could well be confused.
Do people really not spot people waiting at the bar and the lack
of any waiters? People bringing back their drinks?

Efficient waiter service would be a good idea at several of the UK's
busier pubs.

I've been to several where there are literally hundreds of people
sitting outside, not drinking, and dozens more inside, not drinking.
Those outside are waiting for those inside to order from the 2-3 staff
that are taking their own sweet time.

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

Why would we believe anything you write if you think British pubs have
waiters. Have you even set foot in the UK?

Tony

Alan Harrison wrote:

"Tim Vanhoof" wrote in message
...
Passport to the Pub
The Tourist's Guide to Pub Etiquette by Kate Fox

From
http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html , a scientific description of
British pub behaviour
Research findings: In observation-studies, we timed first-time tourists
to find out exactly how long it would take them to discover the
no-waiter-service rule

The problem is that this isn't quite true. Waiter service is rare nowadays,
although it used to be very common in large multi-roomed pubs in which not
every room had a bar. It still exists in a few places, most notably the tiny
number of pubs which have no bar or beer pumps, in which beer is served by
gravity from barrels kept in a cellar or tap room. An example is the Lord
Nelson at Burnham Thorpe, where you come in, sit down (or stand around) and
the gaffer asks you what you want. He then goes off with tray and glasses to
fetch your beer.

Alan Harrison

The wonderful Circus Tavern in Manchester (the smallest urban pub
anywhere?) has also introduced waitress service to reduce crowing at
the very small bar.

JC

"John C" wrote in message
...
The wonderful Circus Tavern in Manchester (the smallest urban pub
anywhere?) has also introduced waitress service to reduce crowing at
the very small bar.

Lot of problems with roosters, was there?

In message , John C
writes
The problem is that this isn't quite true. Waiter service is rare nowadays,
although it used to be very common in large multi-roomed pubs in which not
every room had a bar. It still exists in a few places, most notably the tiny
number of pubs which have no bar or beer pumps, in which beer is served by
gravity from barrels kept in a cellar or tap room. An example is the Lord
Nelson at Burnham Thorpe, where you come in, sit down (or stand around) and
the gaffer asks you what you want. He then goes off with tray and glasses to
fetch your beer.

Alan Harrison

The wonderful Circus Tavern in Manchester (the smallest urban pub
anywhere?) has also introduced waitress service to reduce crowing at
the very small bar.

There are a surprising number of pubs with bell-service buttons still
visible. I think my closest pub used them up till the 1930s. Even more
civilised than trying to catch the eye of an often elusive waiter!

I wonder what foreigners make of the bells often hanging by our bars,
especially since only the pub locals know if it should be rung for
service or not (and many of us never do find out!).

--
Paul Shirley: email anti-spammed

Tim Vanhoof wrote in message
...
Passport to the Pub
The Tourist's Guide to Pub Etiquette by Kate Fox

From
http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html , a scientific description of
British pub behaviour
(also as PDF at http://www.sirc.org/publik/passport.pdf ) Definitely
worth reading for any pubgoer.


blockquote
One of the saddest sights of the British summer (or the funniest,
depending on your sense of humour) is the group of thirsty tourists
sitting at a table in a pub, patiently waiting for someone to come and
take their order. In most cases, a friendly native will put them out of
their misery by explaining rule number one, or they will figure it out
for themselves, but in a busy pub it can be some time before the correct
procedure becomes clear.

...

Research findings: In observation-studies, we timed first-time tourists
to find out exactly how long it would take them to discover the
no-waiter-service rule. The fastest time - just under two-and-a-half
minutes - was achieved by a sharp-eyed American couple. The slowest -
over 45 minutes - involved a group of six young Italians. This group did
not, however, seem particularly concerned about the apparent lack of
service, being engrossed in a lively debate about football. Sympathy
should go to the French couple who marched out of the pub, complaining
bitterly to each other about the poor service and British manners in
general, after a 24-minute wait. /blockquote

Didn't read the whole thing, but it always amused me to see the reaction of
the barman when, having served a coach-load of tourists, he realises that
all 50 of them want to pay individually.

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:41:21 +0100, "Tony Day"
wrote:




I wonder how unaware people are of the service arrangements in
pubs? I suppose if they see people bringing food to tables they
could well be confused.
Do people really not spot people waiting at the bar and the lack
of any waiters? People bringing back their drinks?

Efficient waiter service would be a good idea at several of the UK's
busier pubs.

I've been to several where there are literally hundreds of people
sitting outside, not drinking, and dozens more inside, not drinking.
Those outside are waiting for those inside to order from the 2-3 staff
that are taking their own sweet time.

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

Why would we believe anything you write if you think British pubs have
waiters. Have you even set foot in the UK?

Tony

Who not try reading and getting to understand a post before responding
next time?