I'd suggest a cage match to resolve this dispute. Or let's get some real
money on the table, say $100,000 or so. Perhaps some sponsors would also be
interested-- Weber, Grilla Gear, maybe even Alcoa? And I bet The Food
Network would be willing to cover it.


"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Dave Bugg wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Hmmm, attack those who disagree with you and then run and hide when
challenged. Does seem to be your style...

Either morphed or I didn't kill-file correctly, sigh, so be it.

Ok, jerk, here's the deal. We'll set a date at my place, we pick 5
members
of AFB who'll agree to judge. If three out of the 5 fail to pick my
brisket
in blind judging, I close my store for a month, and permanently leave
AFB.
If 3 out 5 fail to pick yours, you give me a certified check for
$8,000.00 --equivalent to my take home from profits -- and you leave AFB
permanently.

Let's see who hides or backtracks now.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

That's not how the challenge works, both briskets have to be from the
same lot, seasoned the same and smoked on the same smoker, just for
different lengths of time. Both go in the smoker at the same time, one
comes out at the 6 hour mark and goes into the 250 degree convection
oven (no foil and on a rack so it does not sit in drippings) while the
other remains in the smoker. At the 16 hour mark, both are pulled from
their respective cookers, rested and then served. The judges then have
to identify which is which, which is the point I've been making that you
seem to be missing or avoiding.

This is not a contest to compare whether my 'Q is better than your 'Q
and I've made no assertions either way regarding that. I've also never
bashed your 'Q, but you've bashed mine. The assertion once again is that
you (or other judges) would not be able to tell the difference between
otherwise identical briskets where one is smoked for 16 hours and the
other is smoked for 6 hours and then finished in the oven for the
remaining 10 hours.

If you want to accept this challenge for real then I'd suggest finding a
"neutral" host location halfway between our locations (I'm in Denison,
TX), and a more realistic bet say $500.00 In fact the neutral host can
even do the cooking since this is not a contest of cooking skill, but
rather a contest of two different cooking techniques.

Just eyeballing it on the map it looks like somewhere between Denver and
Salt Lake City is about the halfway point. Do we have any members in
that region that would like to volunteer to host the challenge? As for
when, my schedule is pretty flexible so just about any time with a
couple weeks notice would be fine.

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:

If we want to play this BS game then your method in a commercial
smoker aint' 'Q either. Try a pile of hand tended coals on the ground
in a rack ring with the meat on a spit over it ala "bobinga"

You know less than shit, dontcha? I use wood and wood coals in what is
basically a 2500 pound offset pit. Don't try to straw man the issue. An
offset pit Don't try to weasel.


Perhaps you need to re-read the thread as I made no such claim. I said
that you would not be able to tell the difference between a brisket
smoked for 16 hours and one smoked for 6 hours and then baked for
another 10 hours.

Weasel.

You're the one trying to do the spinning Mr. Bugg, not me. Re-read the
thread if you don't get it.

I get what you said. The problem is, you gave shit advice to a newbie; you
don't know jack about time vs temp; you think that smoke is THE THING in Q;
and that an electric oven produces just as good a 'Qd brisket as a wood pit.
And you won't back up your claim.

Nothing to do with standards bud. The challenge can be done by anyone,
even you. Put a couple of your briskets in your commercial non-pit
non-real-Q smoker,

Ya know, you are a whiner and a slut. You are a miserable failure at bbq,
which is why you use an electric oven, and so you try to spin the issue by
making wrong assertion about what I use. Accept my challenge, bitch, and
you'll see my pit up close so you can eat your stupidity on a plate.

pull one after 6 hours and place in a convection
oven at 250 degrees as noted, leave the other in your smoker. Run
both the remainder of your normal time and then pull both from their
respective heat sources. Let both rest the normal amount of time and
then try to tell the difference between them.

I've done that as a wet-behind-the-ears, didn't know-any-better newbie. I
can tell the difference. Anyone could tell the difference. If YOU can't, it
just tells us here on AFB what miserable bbq you produce on a regular pit to
think it is all the same.

Nope, that's what you're trying to twist it into. I'll also note as
others in the group can clearly see that it is you that nave made all
the attacks and used the foul language, not me.

I see. Another straw man. You fail to back your play, AFTER you said that it
cut-n-run. And yet here YOU are, running like a bad case of diahrrea.
..
And you apparently don't do 'Q either given the big honkin' commercial
smoker vs. a legitimate pit. FWIW the commercial 'Q places here in TX
including the one half a mile away from me do indeed use real pits and
not commercial smokers.

Yawn, a very tired straw man. You don't even know the difference between a
smoker and a pit, dimwit.

Nope, it's the 6 hours in the smoker and then finish in the oven vs.
the total time in the smoker, all other factors identical. It makes no
difference the particular smoker (as long as it maintains the normal
250 degrees or so), total time, fuel, seasoning, etc.

Proof positive that you don't know the first thing about bbq. You try to
break it down to JUST one thing: six hours in smoke. Gawd, no wonder you
have to use an oven. Weasel.

You're the one trying to weasel Mr. Bugg, not me. Follow the challenge
for the claim that I actually made (not your spin), at a neutral
equidistant location, for even stakes - straight cash in both
directions, not the biased proposal you made.

Weasel. You my bitch, baby.

The equipment as far as a smoker goes is exactly the same and in fact
should be a single unit......

It all boils down to weasel.

You're doing a good job showing the rest of the group.....

Waaaahhhh..... that mean ol Dave called my bluff and I can't do it because
I'll **** myself..... waaaaaaaaa.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dave Bugg wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

If we want to play this BS game then your method in a commercial
smoker aint' 'Q either. Try a pile of hand tended coals on the ground
in a rack ring with the meat on a spit over it ala "bobinga"

You know less than shit, dontcha? I use wood and wood coals in what is
basically a 2500 pound offset pit. Don't try to straw man the issue. An
offset pit Don't try to weasel.

And an offset pit ain't queue per the definition of "bobinga" which is
the best researched and likely most accurate definition of true 'Q.



Perhaps you need to re-read the thread as I made no such claim. I said
that you would not be able to tell the difference between a brisket
smoked for 16 hours and one smoked for 6 hours and then baked for
another 10 hours.

Weasel.

Name calling when presented with the facts of the claim I made (which
can be readily verified by anyone following this group) certainly shows
your character. Better hope none of your regular customers see you
behaving this way.


You're the one trying to do the spinning Mr. Bugg, not me. Re-read the
thread if you don't get it.

I get what you said. The problem is, you gave shit advice to a newbie; you
don't know jack about time vs temp; you think that smoke is THE THING in Q;
and that an electric oven produces just as good a 'Qd brisket as a wood pit.
And you won't back up your claim.

That is not the claim that I made. The claim I made is that after the
first 6 hours in the smoker, it does not matter whether the remainder of
the total cooking time is in the smoker or in a conventional oven at the
same temperature as the smoker. This is vastly different that what you
keep trying to spin it into and everyone else reading this thread can
plainly see that.


Nothing to do with standards bud. The challenge can be done by anyone,
even you. Put a couple of your briskets in your commercial non-pit
non-real-Q smoker,

Ya know, you are a whiner and a slut. You are a miserable failure at bbq,
which is why you use an electric oven, and so you try to spin the issue by
making wrong assertion about what I use. Accept my challenge, bitch, and
you'll see my pit up close so you can eat your stupidity on a plate.

You're making it abundantly clear to those following this thread that
you are not capable of holding a civilized debate and are clearly afraid
that if you were to accept the actual challenge that I made, you would
be solidly proven to be wrong.


pull one after 6 hours and place in a convection
oven at 250 degrees as noted, leave the other in your smoker. Run
both the remainder of your normal time and then pull both from their
respective heat sources. Let both rest the normal amount of time and
then try to tell the difference between them.

I've done that as a wet-behind-the-ears, didn't know-any-better newbie. I
can tell the difference. Anyone could tell the difference. If YOU can't, it
just tells us here on AFB what miserable bbq you produce on a regular pit to
think it is all the same.

If you feel that is the case then you should accept the actual challenge
I made instead of trying to spin it into something different and avoid
putting your money where your (vulgar) mouth is.


Nope, that's what you're trying to twist it into. I'll also note as
others in the group can clearly see that it is you that nave made all
the attacks and used the foul language, not me.

I see. Another straw man. You fail to back your play, AFTER you said that it
cut-n-run. And yet here YOU are, running like a bad case of diahrrea.

I've backed my challenge solidly. Neutral grounds, impartial observers,
cash on the table, rules per the actual challenge I made. I'm ready, are
you?

.
And you apparently don't do 'Q either given the big honkin' commercial
smoker vs. a legitimate pit. FWIW the commercial 'Q places here in TX
including the one half a mile away from me do indeed use real pits and
not commercial smokers.

Yawn, a very tired straw man. You don't even know the difference between a
smoker and a pit, dimwit.

Apparently you don't know the difference. If it's an enclosed structure
with a chimney it is not a pit. A true pit is a clear patch of ground,
typically surrounded by a small retaining wall of rocks, filled with hot
coals introduced from another location and with the meat suspended over
these coals on a rack or spit. There is no enclosure to hold in either
the heat or the smoke, heat is radiant from the coals and the smoke is
whatever drifts by the meat.


Nope, it's the 6 hours in the smoker and then finish in the oven vs.
the total time in the smoker, all other factors identical. It makes no
difference the particular smoker (as long as it maintains the normal
250 degrees or so), total time, fuel, seasoning, etc.

Proof positive that you don't know the first thing about bbq. You try to
break it down to JUST one thing: six hours in smoke. Gawd, no wonder you
have to use an oven. Weasel.

If you think that is the case then you have no excuse to keep trying to
twist or weasel your way out of the challenge.


You're the one trying to weasel Mr. Bugg, not me. Follow the challenge
for the claim that I actually made (not your spin), at a neutral
equidistant location, for even stakes - straight cash in both
directions, not the biased proposal you made.

Weasel. You my bitch, baby.

Go ahead and keep showing the world your true character.


The equipment as far as a smoker goes is exactly the same and in fact
should be a single unit......

It all boils down to weasel.

You're doing a good job showing the rest of the group.....

Waaaahhhh..... that mean ol Dave called my bluff and I can't do it because
I'll **** myself..... waaaaaaaaa.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

You are the one bluffing Mr. Bugg. You are afraid to accept the
challenge and be proven wrong.

Pete C.

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:49:05 -0800, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:

Dave? Pete?

Stop. No purpose.

This is far past the point of being anything near constructive and if
either of you appreciate the benefit of this newsgroup you will just
stop.

I strongly suggest to anyone who wants this forum to continue with
even the slightest chance of being beneficial that you try to cut
folks (especially newbies) some slack.

If someone posts something you disagree with, or feel you know better
than them, the tell them WHY, try to educate, don't just dismiss them
or call them stupid, etc. I don't know many people who respond well
to that kind of criticism.

I could go on with one of my patented rants about respect and courtesy
in the newsgroup, but I don't have the energy right now.

Just play nice, wouldja?

WWJD?

WWJGD?

WWDLD?

WWBD?

WWJSD?

(Hmmm....what WOULD Jerry Springer do?)

;-)




-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats When They Come To MY House!"

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:21:48 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

You're making it abundantly clear to those following this thread that
you are not capable of holding a civilized debate

He did that years ago, actually.

Chef Juke wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:49:05 -0800, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:

Dave? Pete?

Stop. No purpose.


Yes....please.

Chef Juke wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:49:05 -0800, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:

Dave? Pete?

Stop. No purpose.

This is far past the point of being anything near constructive and if
either of you appreciate the benefit of this newsgroup you will just
stop.

I strongly suggest to anyone who wants this forum to continue with
even the slightest chance of being beneficial that you try to cut
folks (especially newbies) some slack.

If someone posts something you disagree with, or feel you know better
than them, the tell them WHY, try to educate, don't just dismiss them
or call them stupid, etc. I don't know many people who respond well
to that kind of criticism.

I could go on with one of my patented rants about respect and courtesy
in the newsgroup, but I don't have the energy right now.

Just play nice, wouldja?

WWJD?

WWJGD?

WWDLD?

WWBD?

WWJSD?

(Hmmm....what WOULD Jerry Springer do?)

Invite KevinS to the foray

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:20:32 GMT, cl wrote:



Chef Juke wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:49:05 -0800, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:

Dave? Pete?

Stop. No purpose.

This is far past the point of being anything near constructive and if
either of you appreciate the benefit of this newsgroup you will just
stop.

I strongly suggest to anyone who wants this forum to continue with
even the slightest chance of being beneficial that you try to cut
folks (especially newbies) some slack.

If someone posts something you disagree with, or feel you know better
than them, the tell them WHY, try to educate, don't just dismiss them
or call them stupid, etc. I don't know many people who respond well
to that kind of criticism.

I could go on with one of my patented rants about respect and courtesy
in the newsgroup, but I don't have the energy right now.

Just play nice, wouldja?

WWJD?

WWJGD?

WWDLD?

WWBD?

WWJSD?

(Hmmm....what WOULD Jerry Springer do?)

Invite KevinS to the foray

Buy CAL a dictionary so he can look up the meaning of words like
"foray"?

"Kevin S. Wilson" wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:20:32 GMT, cl wrote:



Chef Juke wrote:


(Hmmm....what WOULD Jerry Springer do?)

Invite KevinS to the foray

Buy CAL a dictionary so he can look up the meaning of words like
"foray"?

Did I learnt you somethang?

Chef Juke wrote:

Dave? Pete?

Stop. No purpose.
[ . . . ]
What Chef Juke said.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

In article ,
says...
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:49:05 -0800, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:

Dave? Pete?

Stop. No purpose.

This is far past the point of being anything near constructive and if
either of you appreciate the benefit of this newsgroup you will just
stop.

I strongly suggest to anyone who wants this forum to continue with
even the slightest chance of being beneficial that you try to cut
folks (especially newbies) some slack.

If someone posts something you disagree with, or feel you know better
than them, the tell them WHY, try to educate, don't just dismiss them
or call them stupid, etc. I don't know many people who respond well
to that kind of criticism.

I could go on with one of my patented rants about respect and courtesy
in the newsgroup, but I don't have the energy right now.

Just play nice, wouldja?

WWJD?

WWJGD?

WWDLD?

WWBD?

WWJSD?

(Hmmm....what WOULD Jerry Springer do?)

;-)




-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats When They Come To MY House!"


If either of the kids read this, they've both been sent to their room
for a time out killfiled for 7 days . If they continue this ****ing
contest in a public forum it will become permanent. Of course, they may
not care if they're killfiled, but I thought the idea of posting to a
newsgroup is to be read, not killfiled.

IOW, take it to e-mail.

Bill

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:42:06 GMT, cl wrote:

What happens at 191.999 degress?

Kevin shows up and starts more flaming?

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:05:51 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


And you apparently don't do 'Q either given the big honkin' commercial
smoker vs. a legitimate pit. FWIW the commercial 'Q places here in TX
including the one half a mile away from me do indeed use real pits and
not commercial smokers.

"real pits"
They dig a hole in the ground?
--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:23:31 -0800, Chef Juke
wrote:

Just play nice, wouldja?

WWJD?

WWJGD?

WWDLD?

WWBD?

WWJSD?

(Hmmm....what WOULD Jerry Springer do?)

He'd put 'em on tv and egg 'em on, of course.

How about WWCJD?

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:49:05 -0800, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:

Dave, I dunno just why Pete's assertions set you off so much, but the
Dave Bugg I met in Wenatchee and the one I see in this thread don't
match. I much prefer the man I met in person.

Not that Pete's being much help here.

But both of you should drop the matter. You have your opinion, he has
his. A test wouldn't prove anything.

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge