bbq wrote:

Substitute the Tenderquick for the Insta Cure 1? That's what I was
hoping as I have some on hand. I knew the tenderquick could be a
substitute for the Insta Cure, but not sure if it would be Insta Cure 1
or 2. Thanks

Instacure #1 = 6.25% sodium nitrite
Tenderquick = 0.5% sodium nitrite

That doesn't look like a 1 for 1 substitution to me, but it's
up to you. Some people don't use nitrites at all, salt only.

As far as which instacure to use, #1 is for cooked products, #2 is
for dry cured.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:

bbq wrote:

Substitute the Tenderquick for the Insta Cure 1? That's what I was
hoping as I have some on hand. I knew the tenderquick could be a
substitute for the Insta Cure, but not sure if it would be Insta Cure
1 or 2. Thanks


Instacure #1 = 6.25% sodium nitrite
Tenderquick = 0.5% sodium nitrite

That doesn't look like a 1 for 1 substitution to me, but it's
up to you. Some people don't use nitrites at all, salt only.

As far as which instacure to use, #1 is for cooked products, #2 is
for dry cured.



Will use the tenderquick, because that's what I have in my cupboard.
I can't seem to keep the nitrite and nitrate seperated as to which is
for what (cooked or dry cured products).


BBQ

bbq wrote:

Will use the tenderquick, because that's what I have in my cupboard.

That's cool. Subing TQ for instacure #1 will result in
less nitrite, not more. If you sub one for one the other
way around you would overdose the nitrite.

I can't seem to keep the nitrite and nitrate seperated as to which is
for what (cooked or dry cured products).

Both #1 and #2 contain nitrite.

If you cook or hot smoke it, use #1, which contains no nitrate
(note that's nitrAte, not nitrIte).

If you dry cure it, you would use #2, which does contain
nitrate.

See "curing salts" on this page for more info. It's also
a great site in general.

http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/page0001.htm

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

bbq wrote:
Reg wrote:
bbq wrote:

Substitute the Tenderquick for the Insta Cure 1? That's what I was
hoping as I have some on hand. I knew the tenderquick could be a
substitute for the Insta Cure, but not sure if it would be Insta Cure
1 or 2. Thanks

Instacure #1 = 6.25% sodium nitrite
Tenderquick = 0.5% sodium nitrite

That doesn't look like a 1 for 1 substitution to me, but it's
up to you. Some people don't use nitrites at all, salt only.

As far as which instacure to use, #1 is for cooked products, #2 is
for dry cured.

Will use the tenderquick, because that's what I have in my cupboard.
I can't seem to keep the nitrite and nitrate seperated as to which is
for what (cooked or dry cured products).

I dunno from Instacure or TenderQuick. Prague Powder #1 (nitr1te) is for
cooked, smoked and canned meats. Prague Powder #2 (nitrAte) is for
dry-cured products, but NEVER for cooked or smoked bacons. See Rytek Kutas'
book, p. 43, et seq.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

wrote:

bbq wrote:

Reg wrote:

bbq wrote:


Substitute the Tenderquick for the Insta Cure 1? That's what I was
hoping as I have some on hand. I knew the tenderquick could be a
substitute for the Insta Cure, but not sure if it would be Insta Cure
1 or 2. Thanks

Instacure #1 = 6.25% sodium nitrite
Tenderquick = 0.5% sodium nitrite

That doesn't look like a 1 for 1 substitution to me, but it's
up to you. Some people don't use nitrites at all, salt only.

As far as which instacure to use, #1 is for cooked products, #2 is
for dry cured.


Will use the tenderquick, because that's what I have in my cupboard.
I can't seem to keep the nitrite and nitrate seperated as to which is
for what (cooked or dry cured products).


I dunno from Instacure or TenderQuick. Prague Powder #1 (nitr1te) is for
cooked, smoked and canned meats. Prague Powder #2 (nitrAte) is for
dry-cured products, but NEVER for cooked or smoked bacons. See Rytek Kutas'
book, p. 43, et seq.


As I understand it, Prague Powder and Instacure are the SAME (not
similar) product. TenderQuick is similar to Instacure #1 and made by
the Morton salt company. Don't know who makes Instacure, but thinking
it is made by one of Rytek Kutas' companies he started. And only
distributed by that compnay, which is why it's not available at my
regular grocer.

Got his book and have read some of it which is what taught me the
above!!! Thanks for the book recommendation.

I am off today, gonna go get the envelope and get to the post office.

BBQ

Reg wrote:

bbq wrote:

Will use the tenderquick, because that's what I have in my cupboard.


That's cool. Subing TQ for instacure #1 will result in
less nitrite, not more. If you sub one for one the other
way around you would overdose the nitrite.

I can't seem to keep the nitrite and nitrate seperated as to which is
for what (cooked or dry cured products).


Both #1 and #2 contain nitrite.

If you cook or hot smoke it, use #1, which contains no nitrate
(note that's nitrAte, not nitrIte).


I think I am able to keep it straight now. We'll see if in six months,
I can explain it to someone without having to refer to the Rytek Kutas book.

If you dry cure it, you would use #2, which does contain
nitrate.

See "curing salts" on this page for more info. It's also
a great site in general.

http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/page0001.htm



Thanks for the site. Got it bookmarked for later browsing.

BBQ

bbq wrote:

Reg wrote:

bbq wrote:
See "curing salts" on this page for more info. It's also
a great site in general.

http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/page0001.htm


Thanks for the site. Got it bookmarked for later browsing.

BBQ

Between Rytek and the above site you should be set. Please
let us know how it turns out.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:
bbq wrote:

Reg wrote:

bbq wrote:
See "curing salts" on this page for more info. It's also
a great site in general.

http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/page0001.htm


Thanks for the site. Got it bookmarked for later browsing.

BBQ

Between Rytek and the above site you should be set. Please
let us know how it turns out.

Excellent site, Reg. Thanks.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

wrote:

Reg wrote:

bbq wrote:

Reg wrote:

bbq wrote:
See "curing salts" on this page for more info. It's also
a great site in general.

http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/page0001.htm


Thanks for the site. Got it bookmarked for later browsing.

BBQ

Between Rytek and the above site you should be set. Please
let us know how it turns out.

Excellent site, Reg. Thanks.

Glad you like it it, Nick. The guy's name is Len Poli,
and he's made quite a contribution.

As good as Rytek Kutas is, his book is pretty light on
some important details of dry cured and fermented
products (especially fermentation. Kutas advocates using
Fermento as a substitute for fermentation). Len's site
really fills in some of the blanks in these areas.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:
wrote:
Reg wrote:
bbq wrote:
Reg wrote:
bbq wrote:
See "curing salts" on this page for more info. It's also
a great site in general.

http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/page0001.htm

Thanks for the site. Got it bookmarked for later browsing.

Between Rytek and the above site you should be set. Please
let us know how it turns out.

Excellent site, Reg. Thanks.

Glad you like it it, Nick. The guy's name is Len Poli,
and he's made quite a contribution.

As good as Rytek Kutas is, his book is pretty light on
some important details of dry cured and fermented
products (especially fermentation. Kutas advocates using
Fermento as a substitute for fermentation). Len's site
really fills in some of the blanks in these areas.

But Len says Sodium NitrAte is OK for bacon, Rukas says no.
Crikeys. More research!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

wrote:

Reg wrote:


Glad you like it it, Nick. The guy's name is Len Poli,
and he's made quite a contribution.

As good as Rytek Kutas is, his book is pretty light on
some important details of dry cured and fermented
products (especially fermentation. Kutas advocates using
Fermento as a substitute for fermentation). Len's site
really fills in some of the blanks in these areas.

But Len says Sodium NitrAte is OK for bacon, Rukas says no.
Crikeys. More research!

I don't know which of Len's recipes you're referring to
where he uses cure #2 (nitrates) in bacon, but there
could be a simple reason for it.

If it's not cooked, and it involves a drying process,
cure #2 (i.e. nitrAte) is appropriate.

One example of this is guanciale, which is made from
pork jowl. It's not cooked, and it is dried, so cure
#2 can be used.

If you substitute pork belly for the pork jowl, you end
up with something that *does* include nitrates and *could*
properly be called bacon, depending on whose definition
you go by.

The moral of the story is: it's how the thing is made
that determines if nitrAtes are used, not so much what
it's called.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:
wrote:
Reg wrote:

Glad you like it it, Nick. The guy's name is Len Poli,
and he's made quite a contribution.

As good as Rytek Kutas is, his book is pretty light on
some important details of dry cured and fermented
products (especially fermentation. Kutas advocates using
Fermento as a substitute for fermentation). Len's site
really fills in some of the blanks in these areas.

But Len says Sodium NitrAte is OK for bacon, Rukas says no.
Crikeys. More research!

I don't know which of Len's recipes you're referring to
where he uses cure #2 (nitrates) in bacon, but there
could be a simple reason for it.

If it's not cooked, and it involves a drying process,
cure #2 (i.e. nitrAte) is appropriate.

One example of this is guanciale, which is made from
pork jowl. It's not cooked, and it is dried, so cure
#2 can be used.

If you substitute pork belly for the pork jowl, you end
up with something that *does* include nitrates and *could*
properly be called bacon, depending on whose definition
you go by.

The moral of the story is: it's how the thing is made
that determines if nitrAtes are used, not so much what
it's called.

If you scroll down 7 pages on Len's site, to "ACTION OF NITRITES AND
NITRATES:", he says, " . . . a review of all scientific literature on
nitrite by the National Research Council of the National Academy of
Sciences indicates that nitrite does not directly act as a carcinogen in
animals and that nitrate, which is converted to nitrite in the human body,
is neither carcinogenic nor mutagenic."

In Rytek's book, p. 44, 2nd paragraph, he says the opposite, and is very
specific about bacon.

Leading me to say, "Crikeys. More research!" ;-/

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

wrote:

If you scroll down 7 pages on Len's site, to "ACTION OF NITRITES AND
NITRATES:", he says, " . . . a review of all scientific literature on
nitrite by the National Research Council of the National Academy of
Sciences indicates that nitrite does not directly act as a carcinogen in
animals and that nitrate, which is converted to nitrite in the human body,
is neither carcinogenic nor mutagenic."

In Rytek's book, p. 44, 2nd paragraph, he says the opposite, and is very
specific about bacon.

Leading me to say, "Crikeys. More research!" ;-/

I see, you're referring to the safety issues. Sorry, that
wasn't clear.

Nitrates themselves are not a carcinogen. That's been tested
over and over, and you likely get more in your daily diet
from vegetables than from any meat.

However...

When nitrates are cooked at high enough temperature they
do form something called nitrosamines, which are a known
carcinogen. Thus the reason for so much attention on
bacon. It frequently contains nitrates and it's often
cooked at high heat.

Nick, I've got a report by the Council for Agricultural
Science and Technology that I purchased that might shed
some light on this. I'd be happy to send it to you.

Here's an article summarizing the report. It addresses
the bacon/nitrates issue, among other things. It
represents much more up to date research than what
Kutas had available to him.

http://www.news.wisc.edu/3325.html

Smoked Meats Are Safe, Task Force Concludes

Nitrites, chemicals used to process hot dogs,
smoked hams, and sausages, have been under fire
in recent years from epidemiologists who had
found a link between cured meats and certain
childhood cancers. However, an interdisciplinary
task force of scientists concluded in a recently
issued report that there is virtually no scientific
rationale for this conclusion


--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:
wrote:

If you scroll down 7 pages on Len's site, to "ACTION OF NITRITES AND
NITRATES:", he says, " . . . a review of all scientific literature on
nitrite by the National Research Council of the National Academy of
Sciences indicates that nitrite does not directly act as a carcinogen
in animals and that nitrate, which is converted to nitrite in the human
body, is neither carcinogenic nor mutagenic."

In Rytek's book, p. 44, 2nd paragraph, he says the opposite, and is
very specific about bacon.

Leading me to say, "Crikeys. More research!" ;-/

I see, you're referring to the safety issues. Sorry, that
wasn't clear.

Nitrates themselves are not a carcinogen. That's been tested
over and over, and you likely get more in your daily diet
from vegetables than from any meat.

However...

When nitrates are cooked at high enough temperature they
do form something called nitrosamines, which are a known
carcinogen. Thus the reason for so much attention on
bacon. It frequently contains nitrates and it's often
cooked at high heat.

Nick, I've got a report by the Council for Agricultural
Science and Technology that I purchased that might shed
some light on this. I'd be happy to send it to you.

Here's an article summarizing the report. It addresses
the bacon/nitrates issue, among other things. It
represents much more up to date research than what
Kutas had available to him.

http://www.news.wisc.edu/3325.html

Smoked Meats Are Safe, Task Force Concludes

Nitrites, chemicals used to process hot dogs,
smoked hams, and sausages, have been under fire
in recent years from epidemiologists who had
found a link between cured meats and certain
childhood cancers. However, an interdisciplinary
task force of scientists concluded in a recently
issued report that there is virtually no scientific
rationale for this conclusion

Thanks, Reg. I note, however, that the summary refers to nitrItes, not
nitrAtes. You know what to do to e-mail me, Reg, ONLY!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

wrote:

Thanks, Reg. I note, however, that the summary refers to nitrItes, not
nitrAtes. You know what to do to e-mail me, Reg, ONLY!


You have a keen eye, sir. The report addresses that issue (in
excruciating detail) whereas the article is a rather lightweight
summary. Yet another reason why prefer to read original research
as opposed to what's available in the media.

Document to be sent shortly (410 kb)

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com