I read the earlier post about the Kingfisher smoker which implemented a
side pocket of water, ostensibly to keep the food moist. I understand
the premise of that and have replicated it with pouring the coals
around a throw-away baking tin full of water, so the basin is directly
beneath the meat to be grilled. Obviously one needs to replenish the
water. I got this from a reputable grilling text, but I've read other
texts that suggest water evaporates too rapidly to permeate the food,
and I can imagine that happening too.

Unfortunately there was no control for this experiment: we were
grilling a brined turkey. The brining caused it to retain its own
moisture so I have no idea if the basin was useful at all.

Any opinions?

- XN

sxoidmal wrote:
I read the earlier post about the Kingfisher smoker which implemented
a side pocket of water, ostensibly to keep the food moist. I
understand the premise of that and have replicated it with pouring
the coals around a throw-away baking tin full of water, so the basin
is directly beneath the meat to be grilled. Obviously one needs to
replenish the water. I got this from a reputable grilling text, but
I've read other texts that suggest water evaporates too rapidly to
permeate the food, and I can imagine that happening too.

This has to be one of the biggest myths in cooking, and demonstrates the
lack of scientific knowledge and the tight embrace of old wives tales by
many purported "experts" : To wit, you can add moisture to meat during the
cooking process. External heat during the cooking process creates a high
internal pressure which drives moisture out of the intracellular spaces of a
tissue, like muscle. So how the heck does adding a beer can of water, or a
pan of water, or a tub of water create enough opposite pressure to drive
water back INTO those spaces. Answer: IT CAN'T. I wish mythbusters would
do a BBQ special on busting these kind of cook-foolery old-wives tales.

... The brining caused it to retain its own
moisture so I have no idea if the basin was useful at all.

The brining adds "extra" moisture. This creates a deFacto "reserve" of
moisture which compensates for the natural loss of moisture during the
cooking, grilling, or Qing process. The result is -- ta dah -- a juicier
boid.

NO, the basin was of no use at all, EXCEPT as a heat deflector or a thermal
mass. Each of those functions are useful in their own unique ways.

--
Dave
Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que
http://davebbq.com/

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:31:14 -0500, Dave Bugg wrote:

This has to be one of the biggest myths in cooking, and demonstrates the
lack of scientific knowledge and the tight embrace of old wives tales by
many purported "experts" : To wit, you can add moisture to meat during
the
cooking process. External heat during the cooking process creates a high
internal pressure which drives moisture out of the intracellular spaces
of a
tissue, like muscle. So how the heck does adding a beer can of water, or
a
pan of water, or a tub of water create enough opposite pressure to drive
water back INTO those spaces. Answer: IT CAN'T. I wish mythbusters
would
do a BBQ special on busting these kind of cook-foolery old-wives tales.

So what you are saying is that the whole "water smoker" concept is a scam
of sorts? The bullet smokers all have pans you are supposed to fill with
water or some other liquid to keep the meat moist. But you are saying the
only thing the pan does is keeping the meat from getting direct heat?

--
//ceed ©¿©¬

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message

This has to be one of the biggest myths in cooking, and demonstrates the
lack of scientific knowledge and the tight embrace of old wives tales by
many purported "experts" : To wit, you can add moisture to meat during
the cooking process. External heat during the cooking process creates a
high internal pressure which drives moisture out of the intracellular
spaces of a tissue, like muscle. So how the heck does adding a beer can of
water, or a pan of water, or a tub of water create enough opposite
pressure to drive water back INTO those spaces. Answer: IT CAN'T. I wish
mythbusters would do a BBQ special on busting these kind of cook-foolery
old-wives tales.

I have to respectfully disagree. It is all in the method used.

What happens when you exercise? Your pores open up and you sweat, losing
moisture to the surrounding air. If you add enough moisture to the cooking
pit, it is possible under the right circumstances for the water to
penetrate. The trick is getting the pores to open. What you have to do is
wiggle the meat, same is it would be moving while exercising. Not easy to
do with a roast, but fairly simple with poultry.

Best results are found using the 10/5 method. Every ten minutes, you open
the cooker and wiggle the wings and legs vigorously for five minutes. this
gets the bird moving, thus opening the pores to absorb moisture. Be sure to
keep a good size pan of water near the fire so it will evaporate.

I know some of you may be skeptical, but it works. You just have to prove
it to yourself by trying it. You'll soon be a convert and do this with all
your barbecue. Important: Don't go more than 10 minutes at rest or the
meat will start to dry again.

"ceed" wrote in message
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:31:14 -0500, Dave Bugg wrote:


So what you are saying is that the whole "water smoker" concept is a scam
of sorts? The bullet smokers all have pans you are supposed to fill with
water or some other liquid to keep the meat moist. But you are saying the
only thing the pan does is keeping the meat from getting direct heat?

And acting as a heat sink, yes.


D
--

ceed wrote:

So what you are saying is that the whole "water smoker" concept is a
scam of sorts?

Yup.. big-time, rock-n-roll, fuzzy-headed science scam.

The bullet smokers all have pans you are supposed to
fill with water or some other liquid to keep the meat moist. But you
are saying the only thing the pan does is keeping the meat from
getting direct heat?

Yeah. The only thing they are good for is providing thermal mass and to
deflect direct radiation from the heat source..... And IT AIN'T JUST ME
SAYING IT. It's a science thing.

--
Dave
Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que
http://davebbq.com/

ceed wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:31:14 -0500, Dave Bugg wrote:

This has to be one of the biggest myths in cooking, and demonstrates the
lack of scientific knowledge and the tight embrace of old wives tales by
many purported "experts" : To wit, you can add moisture to meat
during the
cooking process. External heat during the cooking process creates a high
internal pressure which drives moisture out of the intracellular
spaces of a
tissue, like muscle. So how the heck does adding a beer can of water,
or a
pan of water, or a tub of water create enough opposite pressure to drive
water back INTO those spaces. Answer: IT CAN'T. I wish mythbusters
would
do a BBQ special on busting these kind of cook-foolery old-wives tales.


So what you are saying is that the whole "water smoker" concept is a
scam of sorts? The bullet smokers all have pans you are supposed to
fill with water or some other liquid to keep the meat moist. But you
are saying the only thing the pan does is keeping the meat from getting
direct heat?


Yes, of course. You didn't think otherwise, did you ?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


I have to respectfully disagree. It is all in the method used.

What happens when you exercise? Your pores open up and you sweat,
losing moisture to the surrounding air.

What does this have to do with dead meat, Ed?

If you add enough moisture
to the cooking pit, it is possible under the right circumstances for
the water to penetrate. The trick is getting the pores to open.

Even if you could make dead meat sweat, it ain't about putting moisture into
sweat glands. It is about moisture contained at the intracelluar level.

What you have to do is wiggle the meat, same is it would be moving
while exercising. Not easy to do with a roast, but fairly simple
with poultry.

Again, just plain silly.

Best results are found using the 10/5 method. Every ten minutes, you
open the cooker and wiggle the wings and legs vigorously for five
minutes. this gets the bird moving, thus opening the pores to absorb
moisture. Be sure to keep a good size pan of water near the fire so
it will evaporate.

LOL.... Now I get it, this is a joke. You had me going, man.

--
Dave
Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que
http://davebbq.com/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in message

This has to be one of the biggest myths in cooking, and
demonstrates the
lack of scientific knowledge and the tight embrace of old wives
tales by
many purported "experts" : To wit, you can add moisture to meat
during
the cooking process. External heat during the cooking process
creates a
high internal pressure which drives moisture out of the
intracellular
spaces of a tissue, like muscle. So how the heck does adding a beer
can of
water, or a pan of water, or a tub of water create enough opposite
pressure to drive water back INTO those spaces. Answer: IT CAN'T.
I wish
mythbusters would do a BBQ special on busting these kind of
cook-foolery
old-wives tales.

I have to respectfully disagree. It is all in the method used.

What happens when you exercise? Your pores open up and you sweat,
losing
moisture to the surrounding air. If you add enough moisture to the
cooking
pit, it is possible under the right circumstances for the water to
penetrate. The trick is getting the pores to open. What you have
to do is
wiggle the meat, same is it would be moving while exercising. Not
easy to
do with a roast, but fairly simple with poultry.

Best results are found using the 10/5 method. Every ten minutes,
you open
the cooker and wiggle the wings and legs vigorously for five
minutes. this
gets the bird moving, thus opening the pores to absorb moisture. Be
sure to
keep a good size pan of water near the fire so it will evaporate.

I know some of you may be skeptical, but it works. You just have to
prove
it to yourself by trying it. You'll soon be a convert and do this
with all
your barbecue. Important: Don't go more than 10 minutes at rest or
the
meat will start to dry again.

Huh?
http://www.bettina-werner.com/sqf/im...tnugget-sm.jpg
Better view here...
http://www.trimpe.org/jr/pictures/grain-of-salt.jpg

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:



Best results are found using the 10/5 method. Every ten minutes, you
open the cooker and wiggle the wings and legs vigorously for five
minutes. this gets the bird moving, thus opening the pores to absorb
moisture. Be sure to keep a good size pan of water near the fire so
it will evaporate.

LOL.... Now I get it, this is a joke. You had me going, man.

--

He had me going too, Dave, until his last point about opening the cooker
every 10 minutes. I was thinking, well, dayam, what is the point in that -
OH! ROFL.

kili

kilikini wrote:

He had me going too, Dave, until his last point about opening the
cooker every 10 minutes. I was thinking, well, dayam, what is the
point in that - OH! ROFL.

He is a pip. That's what makes him Ed :-)
--
Dave
Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que
http://davebbq.com/

"Dave Bugg" wrote:
sxoidmal wrote:
I read the earlier post about the Kingfisher smoker which implemented
a side pocket of water, ostensibly to keep the food moist. I
understand the premise of that and have replicated it with pouring
the coals around a throw-away baking tin full of water, so the basin
is directly beneath the meat to be grilled. Obviously one needs to
replenish the water. I got this from a reputable grilling text, but
I've read other texts that suggest water evaporates too rapidly to
permeate the food, and I can imagine that happening too.

This has to be one of the biggest myths in cooking, and demonstrates the
lack of scientific knowledge and the tight embrace of old wives tales by
many purported "experts" : To wit, you can add moisture to meat during
the cooking process. External heat during the cooking process creates a
high internal pressure which drives moisture out of the intracellular
spaces of a tissue, like muscle. So how the heck does adding a beer can
of water, or a pan of water, or a tub of water create enough opposite
pressure to drive water back INTO those spaces. Answer: IT CAN'T. I
wish mythbusters would do a BBQ special on busting these kind of
cook-foolery old-wives tales.

... The brining caused it to retain its own
moisture so I have no idea if the basin was useful at all.

The brining adds "extra" moisture. This creates a deFacto "reserve" of
moisture which compensates for the natural loss of moisture during the
cooking, grilling, or Qing process. The result is -- ta dah -- a juicier
boid.

NO, the basin was of no use at all, EXCEPT as a heat deflector or a
thermal mass. Each of those functions are useful in their own unique
ways.

I sometimes put a 1/2 gallon can with one can of beer and one can of apple
juice right in front of the firebox outlet on my NB offset. It gives off a
nice smell, but I can't really tell any difference in the flavor or texture
of the food.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message . ..

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message

This has to be one of the biggest myths in cooking, and demonstrates the
lack of scientific knowledge and the tight embrace of old wives tales by
many purported "experts" : To wit, you can add moisture to meat during
the cooking process. External heat during the cooking process creates a
high internal pressure which drives moisture out of the intracellular
spaces of a tissue, like muscle. So how the heck does adding a beer can of
water, or a pan of water, or a tub of water create enough opposite
pressure to drive water back INTO those spaces. Answer: IT CAN'T. I wish
mythbusters would do a BBQ special on busting these kind of cook-foolery
old-wives tales.

I have to respectfully disagree. It is all in the method used.

What happens when you exercise? Your pores open up and you sweat, losing
moisture to the surrounding air. If you add enough moisture to the cooking
pit, it is possible under the right circumstances for the water to
penetrate. The trick is getting the pores to open. What you have to do is
wiggle the meat, same is it would be moving while exercising. Not easy to
do with a roast, but fairly simple with poultry.

Best results are found using the 10/5 method. Every ten minutes, you open
the cooker and wiggle the wings and legs vigorously for five minutes. this
gets the bird moving, thus opening the pores to absorb moisture. Be sure to
keep a good size pan of water near the fire so it will evaporate.

I know some of you may be skeptical, but it works. You just have to prove
it to yourself by trying it. You'll soon be a convert and do this with all
your barbecue. Important: Don't go more than 10 minutes at rest or the
meat will start to dry again.



Great info. I think I'll try that method next time I do chickens. Not only moist, but thin and trim. Yummy.

ROFLMAO, good one Ed.

--
Al Reid

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:55:48 -0500, Dave Bugg wrote:

ceed wrote:

So what you are saying is that the whole "water smoker" concept is a
scam of sorts?

Yup.. big-time, rock-n-roll, fuzzy-headed science scam.

There goes the whole "Beer Can Chicken" concept as well I guess (except
for the fact that it seems to work great having the chicken stand up like
that while cooking)?

The bullet smokers all have pans you are supposed to
fill with water or some other liquid to keep the meat moist. But you
are saying the only thing the pan does is keeping the meat from
getting direct heat?

Yeah. The only thing they are good for is providing thermal mass and to
deflect direct radiation from the heat source..... And IT AIN'T JUST ME
SAYING IT. It's a science thing.

Ok, since this is science I would not know how to prove you wrong, or
right for that matter. I'll just have to accept it. But how come medical
literature tells you that the skin holds more moisture when the relative
humidity is high? I guess you would say that it's because it's living
human skin tissue not being cooked, to which I would reply: "You haven't
been to south central Texas in August"


--
//ceed ©¿©¬

Dave Bugg wrote:

ceed wrote:

So what you are saying is that the whole "water smoker" concept is a
scam of sorts?

Yup.. big-time, rock-n-roll, fuzzy-headed science scam.

The bullet smokers all have pans you are supposed to
fill with water or some other liquid to keep the meat moist. But you
are saying the only thing the pan does is keeping the meat from
getting direct heat?

Yeah. The only thing they are good for is providing thermal mass and to
deflect direct radiation from the heat source..... And IT AIN'T JUST ME
SAYING IT. It's a science thing.


.... and act as a temperature fuse/limiter. If the fire is too hot, the
boiling off of water will help to bleed off the excess energy thus
holding the temperature down. A sand filled pan will just get hotter and
hotter.


-CAL