Piedmont ) opined:

Has anyone got experience with an authentic pit, (hole in
the ground).

I was about to do some trials in a mini pit and was curious
about suggested depth of coal bed and how long I got expect
the coals top last.

I'm proposing to dig my pit about 18 inches deep and about
2x4 foot, then set it up so that I can place sheet metal on
top perhaps by spacing between the grill and the sheet
metal with cement blocks. Any and all suggestions from
experienced pit users would be appreciated!

From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between
the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to
the Catawba Indian Nation!

BBQ USA - A free community group at MSN.com,
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw
You'll find many links here that all relate to BBQ in one
way or another. Feel free to become a member and post
pictures, share a recipe or just browse the links!

I've met this guy and know people that have eaten his bbq.

http://www.utc.edu/Research/SimCenter/hawgs

--
George B. Ross is
remove the obvious bits for email
Why is it that being a good boy and being good at being
a boy don't require the same set of skills? - anonymous

Michael wrote:
snip
OK, I've read a number of responses to this question and it seems two very
different styles of pit cooking are being discussed.

snip
and http://www.texmex.net/Recipes/barbacoa.htm

The pit method I believe the OP was asking about (my clue is the question
about how long the coals last) is the one I would recommend. I use the half
and half (half excavated and half block) as a compromise design. I usually
do full shoulders (if I can find them), Boston butts or regular shoulders in
that order of preference. All seem to be easier to turn and work with at
the slightly lower grill height of the compromise pit.

http://www.ibiblio.org/lineback/bbq/rufus.htm

This one is four blocks high and the compromise design I use is only two.
The rest of the height is in the ground. For someone who has to pick up the
shovel himself I would highly recommend the Rufus.

The very old traditional pit bbq is very difficult to manage as there is no
cover. The pit is three feet deep with the coals in the bottom and a grill
at ground level. Tough to manage heat and the pit boss will be dead tired
when everything is done.

Here is another design that seems interesting but I have no experience with
it.

http://www.ibiblio.org/lineback/bbq/stasiuk.htm

Just my thoughts and stolen web pages



You are correct, not looking to do buried pig but open pit. Good red
clay soil here just begging me to reap the rewards of a good outdoor
pit! (grin)

--
From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between the Blue
Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to the Catawba Indian Nation!

BBQ USA - A free community group at MSN.com,
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw
You'll find many links here that all relate to BBQ in one way or another.
Feel free to become a member and post pictures, share a recipe or just
browse the links!

Michael wrote:
snip
OK, I've read a number of responses to this question and it seems two very
different styles of pit cooking are being discussed.

snip
and http://www.texmex.net/Recipes/barbacoa.htm

The pit method I believe the OP was asking about (my clue is the question
about how long the coals last) is the one I would recommend. I use the half
and half (half excavated and half block) as a compromise design. I usually
do full shoulders (if I can find them), Boston butts or regular shoulders in
that order of preference. All seem to be easier to turn and work with at
the slightly lower grill height of the compromise pit.

http://www.ibiblio.org/lineback/bbq/rufus.htm

This one is four blocks high and the compromise design I use is only two.
The rest of the height is in the ground. For someone who has to pick up the
shovel himself I would highly recommend the Rufus.

The very old traditional pit bbq is very difficult to manage as there is no
cover. The pit is three feet deep with the coals in the bottom and a grill
at ground level. Tough to manage heat and the pit boss will be dead tired
when everything is done.

Here is another design that seems interesting but I have no experience with
it.

http://www.ibiblio.org/lineback/bbq/stasiuk.htm

Just my thoughts and stolen web pages



You are correct, not looking to do buried pig but open pit. Good red
clay soil here just begging me to reap the rewards of a good outdoor
pit! (grin)

--
From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between the Blue
Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to the Catawba Indian Nation!

BBQ USA - A free community group at MSN.com,
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw
You'll find many links here that all relate to BBQ in one way or another.
Feel free to become a member and post pictures, share a recipe or just
browse the links!

George B. Ross wrote:
snip
I've met this guy and know people that have eaten his bbq.

http://www.utc.edu/Research/SimCenter/hawgs


Yes, but inground and no cement block except along the rim of the hole
in the ground. To set a cover made of sheet metal over the meat. I've
seen pics of what I'm talking about from some time ago where in Texas?
(I believe) They dug a hole in the ground, filled the hole with wood,
let er burn to coals then laid a grill across the hole and cooked the
meat. But I'm thinking of modifying so that I can place sheet metal
cover over the meat. It seems to me that the balance of insulation and
the depth of the hole makes for a (perhaps) controlled and long burn of
coals as the air (I would assume) would do a slow transfer as it burned
in the hole as fresh air moved down!?

--
From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between the Blue
Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to the Catawba Indian Nation!

BBQ USA - A free community group at MSN.com,
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw
You'll find many links here that all relate to BBQ in one way or another.
Feel free to become a member and post pictures, share a recipe or just
browse the links!

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:07:11 GMT, "kilikini"
wrote:


"Piedmont" wrote in message
...
Has anyone got experience with an authentic pit, (hole in the ground).

I was about to do some trials in a mini pit and was curious about
suggested depth of coal bed and how long I got expect the coals top last.

I'm proposing to dig my pit about 18 inches deep and about 2x4 foot,
then set it up so that I can place sheet metal on top perhaps by spacing
between the grill and the sheet metal with cement blocks. Any and all
suggestions from experienced pit users would be appreciated!

From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between the Blue
Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to the Catawba Indian Nation!

BBQ USA - A free community group at MSN.com,
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw
You'll find many links here that all relate to BBQ in one way or another.
Feel free to become a member and post pictures, share a recipe or just
browse the links!


I've dug a real Imu (Hawaiian Pit) before and was it ever a PITA! We dug a
rather large square pit about 3 feet deep and then gathered lava rocks to
coat the bottom of the pit. (The rocks actually end up retaining the heat
after the wood burns down. They get so hot they glow.) Then we cut some
large pieces of Kiawe wood (mesquite, ew, I know!) and stacked the wood up
boyscout Teepee style to create a huge bonfire in order to heat the rocks
completely. (Cook the wood down and keep adding more until the rocks
actually GLOW.)

We then set the food (in aluminum roasting containers and wrapped in ti
leaves) on the rocks. We chopped down some banana trees and made huge slits
in the bark. Banana trees hold a lot of moisture; and slicing the stems
helps provide steam and smoke for flavoring. We then covered the entire pit
with more ti leaves over the banana stems and leaves, almost sealing the
layers in. We hid the leaves under a sseries of burlap bags and then
shoveled the excavated dirt over the whole mess. The last step was to take
a tent tarp and bury the mound of dirt. We took extra lava rocks to hold
down the tarp to ensure no smoke or heat would escape and we let it go over
night until about 10:00 am.

Three turkeys and 3 pork butts later, everything shredded and was ready for
eating. I would have liked it a tad bit smokier, but it was an experience
to do it from scratch like that.

I swore I'd never do it again. :~) It was hard work!

kili


Kili that sounds challenging enough that it is no doubt entirely
authentic. I totally agree with your assessment.

Harry

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:07:11 GMT, "kilikini"
wrote:


"Piedmont" wrote in message
...
Has anyone got experience with an authentic pit, (hole in the ground).

I was about to do some trials in a mini pit and was curious about
suggested depth of coal bed and how long I got expect the coals top last.

I'm proposing to dig my pit about 18 inches deep and about 2x4 foot,
then set it up so that I can place sheet metal on top perhaps by spacing
between the grill and the sheet metal with cement blocks. Any and all
suggestions from experienced pit users would be appreciated!

From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between the Blue
Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to the Catawba Indian Nation!

BBQ USA - A free community group at MSN.com,
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw
You'll find many links here that all relate to BBQ in one way or another.
Feel free to become a member and post pictures, share a recipe or just
browse the links!


I've dug a real Imu (Hawaiian Pit) before and was it ever a PITA! We dug a
rather large square pit about 3 feet deep and then gathered lava rocks to
coat the bottom of the pit. (The rocks actually end up retaining the heat
after the wood burns down. They get so hot they glow.) Then we cut some
large pieces of Kiawe wood (mesquite, ew, I know!) and stacked the wood up
boyscout Teepee style to create a huge bonfire in order to heat the rocks
completely. (Cook the wood down and keep adding more until the rocks
actually GLOW.)

We then set the food (in aluminum roasting containers and wrapped in ti
leaves) on the rocks. We chopped down some banana trees and made huge slits
in the bark. Banana trees hold a lot of moisture; and slicing the stems
helps provide steam and smoke for flavoring. We then covered the entire pit
with more ti leaves over the banana stems and leaves, almost sealing the
layers in. We hid the leaves under a sseries of burlap bags and then
shoveled the excavated dirt over the whole mess. The last step was to take
a tent tarp and bury the mound of dirt. We took extra lava rocks to hold
down the tarp to ensure no smoke or heat would escape and we let it go over
night until about 10:00 am.

Three turkeys and 3 pork butts later, everything shredded and was ready for
eating. I would have liked it a tad bit smokier, but it was an experience
to do it from scratch like that.

I swore I'd never do it again. :~) It was hard work!

kili


Kili that sounds challenging enough that it is no doubt entirely
authentic. I totally agree with your assessment.

Harry

Piedmont wrote:
George B. Ross wrote:
snip

I've met this guy and know people that have eaten his bbq.

http://www.utc.edu/Research/SimCenter/hawgs


Yes, but inground and no cement block except along the rim of the hole
in the ground. To set a cover made of sheet metal over the meat. I've
seen pics of what I'm talking about from some time ago where in Texas?
(I believe) They dug a hole in the ground, filled the hole with wood,
let er burn to coals then laid a grill across the hole and cooked the
meat. But I'm thinking of modifying so that I can place sheet metal
cover over the meat. It seems to me that the balance of insulation and
the depth of the hole makes for a (perhaps) controlled and long burn of
coals as the air (I would assume) would do a slow transfer as it burned
in the hole as fresh air moved down!?

At all the old time pit barbeques I ever had the pleasure to work we
never used sheet metal. Use a grill or screen. The smoke flavor is a lot
better and actually keeping an eye on the fire is easier. Build a fire
in the pit and burn down to a good bed of coals.

Use your modified block method as it will be easier to add coals later
to cold spots.

Just what little I learned along the way.

Aub

Aubrey wrote:

snip
At all the old time pit barbeques I ever had the pleasure to work we
never used sheet metal. Use a grill or screen. The smoke flavor is a lot
better and actually keeping an eye on the fire is easier. Build a fire
in the pit and burn down to a good bed of coals.

Use your modified block method as it will be easier to add coals later
to cold spots.

Just what little I learned along the way.

Aub

Thanks!
--
From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between the Blue
Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to the Catawba Indian Nation!

BBQ USA - A free community group at MSN.com,
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw
You'll find many links here that all relate to BBQ in one way or another.
Feel free to become a member and post pictures, share a recipe or just
browse the links!

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:52:38 -0600, Piedmont wrote:

Has anyone got experience with an authentic pit, (hole in the ground).

I was about to do some trials in a mini pit and was curious about
suggested depth of coal bed and how long I got expect the coals top last.

I'm proposing to dig my pit about 18 inches deep and about 2x4 foot,
then set it up so that I can place sheet metal on top perhaps by spacing
between the grill and the sheet metal with cement blocks. Any and all
suggestions from experienced pit users would be appreciated!

From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between the Blue
Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to the Catawba Indian Nation!

BBQ USA - A free community group at MSN.com,
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw
You'll find many links here that all relate to BBQ in one way or another.
Feel free to become a member and post pictures, share a recipe or just
browse the links!

The most "authentic" method (in Eastern North Carolina) is to cook the
pig over the direct heat of wood coals. I aim for a distance of about
18 -24 inches between the coals and the pig, so the depth of the pit
you describe seems about right. The width and length needs to be
sufficient to get coals under the entire pig. 2 feets seems narrow
unless you are cooking only half a pig (or a small one).

I'd recommend some extra length. You will need to replenish the coals
quite often. You will need a convenient way of shoveling coals under
the pig every hour or so.

Maintain a hardwood fire off to the side. As the fire burns down.
Shovel coals from the fire under the pig. Some people just scatter
them randomly, but I am more deliberate I try to get a bit of extra
coals under the shoulders and hams (the thickest parts, of course).
"Traditionally," pit cooking is done without covering the pig.

An alternative is to build your "pit" on top of the ground. This is
decidedly easier and it is easier to replenish coals as the coal bed
is at ground level. Use concrete blocks to raise the cooking grate
above the ground. If you want to enclose the pit, you can use almost
anything available. Most often, I have used roofing tin to form the
sides and used a sheet of plywood as a cover. Unless the heat is way
too high, the plywood works fine.

You will need a way to turn the meat about 3/4 way through cooking. I
use two grates, so I can just put the second grate on top, turn the
pig sandwiched between the grates and remove the original grate which
is now on top. In a pinch, I have put a layer of fencing wire under
the pig before starting to cook and used a second layer on top to turn
the pig. If you do this, be careful what types of materials come into
contact with your food. In particular, don't use galvanized materials.
I dare say the FDA doesn't certify any fencing materials as food safe,
but clean steel wire should be OK.

This is very time consuming, of course. It's also great fun and a
wonderful excuse to get together with friends and drink beer all
night. If you build the fire around 9, start the pig cooking around
11PM, it should be ready to eat by lunch time the next day. There are
a lot of variables that affect cooking time, so don't do this the
first time when you are operating on a tight timetable.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Leonard

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:52:38 -0600, Piedmont wrote:

Has anyone got experience with an authentic pit, (hole in the ground).

I was about to do some trials in a mini pit and was curious about
suggested depth of coal bed and how long I got expect the coals top last.

I'm proposing to dig my pit about 18 inches deep and about 2x4 foot,
then set it up so that I can place sheet metal on top perhaps by spacing
between the grill and the sheet metal with cement blocks. Any and all
suggestions from experienced pit users would be appreciated!

From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between the Blue
Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to the Catawba Indian Nation!

BBQ USA - A free community group at MSN.com,
http://groups.msn.com/BBQUSA/_whatsnew.msnw
You'll find many links here that all relate to BBQ in one way or another.
Feel free to become a member and post pictures, share a recipe or just
browse the links!

The most "authentic" method (in Eastern North Carolina) is to cook the
pig over the direct heat of wood coals. I aim for a distance of about
18 -24 inches between the coals and the pig, so the depth of the pit
you describe seems about right. The width and length needs to be
sufficient to get coals under the entire pig. 2 feets seems narrow
unless you are cooking only half a pig (or a small one).

I'd recommend some extra length. You will need to replenish the coals
quite often. You will need a convenient way of shoveling coals under
the pig every hour or so.

Maintain a hardwood fire off to the side. As the fire burns down.
Shovel coals from the fire under the pig. Some people just scatter
them randomly, but I am more deliberate I try to get a bit of extra
coals under the shoulders and hams (the thickest parts, of course).
"Traditionally," pit cooking is done without covering the pig.

An alternative is to build your "pit" on top of the ground. This is
decidedly easier and it is easier to replenish coals as the coal bed
is at ground level. Use concrete blocks to raise the cooking grate
above the ground. If you want to enclose the pit, you can use almost
anything available. Most often, I have used roofing tin to form the
sides and used a sheet of plywood as a cover. Unless the heat is way
too high, the plywood works fine.

You will need a way to turn the meat about 3/4 way through cooking. I
use two grates, so I can just put the second grate on top, turn the
pig sandwiched between the grates and remove the original grate which
is now on top. In a pinch, I have put a layer of fencing wire under
the pig before starting to cook and used a second layer on top to turn
the pig. If you do this, be careful what types of materials come into
contact with your food. In particular, don't use galvanized materials.
I dare say the FDA doesn't certify any fencing materials as food safe,
but clean steel wire should be OK.

This is very time consuming, of course. It's also great fun and a
wonderful excuse to get together with friends and drink beer all
night. If you build the fire around 9, start the pig cooking around
11PM, it should be ready to eat by lunch time the next day. There are
a lot of variables that affect cooking time, so don't do this the
first time when you are operating on a tight timetable.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Leonard

Leonard Lehew wrote:

Snip

lot of variables that affect cooking time, so don't do this the
first time when you are operating on a tight timetable.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Leonard

Very detailed, thank you Leonard!
--
From: Piedmont, In northern South Carolina! Nestled between the Blue
Ridge Mountains and the Atlantic Ocean! Home to the Catawba Indian Nation!