So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347


--
JaKe, Seattle
"The main thing that we do is to rock your socks off."
Tenacious D

"JaKe" > wrote in message ...
> So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:
>
> http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347
>

1st of all, he writes for the Times so WTF does he know about Q?

2nd they call it "Easy, Delicious Barbecue" and then proceed to talk about
grilling.

JaKe wrote:
> So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:
>
> http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347


Who the **** gives a rat's ass what anybody from NYC says?

Jake, you're an ass with a capital "S"


TFM®

"JaKe" > wrote in message
...
> So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:
>
> http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347
>


He is correct about tenderizing; it does not make it tender. Flavor is
another story. The marinated shrimp I made last Sunday were a big hit with
everyone.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> JaKe

> > So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:

> > http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347

> He is correct about tenderizing; it does not make it tender. Flavor is
> another story. The marinated shrimp I made last Sunday were a big hit with
> everyone.

He is dead wrong about marinades not penetrating meat. I challenge
anyone to marinate chicken in Cornell sauce overnight and claim it has
not penetrated:

____________________________

Cornell Marinade for Chicken
____________________________

For 5 halves:

1/2 cup cooking oil
1 cup cider vinegar
2 tbs. salt
1 1/2 tsp. poultry seasoning
1/4 tsp. white pepper
1 egg

Beat the egg, add the oil and beat again.
Add the other ingredients and stir.
--
Andy Williams

Andy Williams wrote:

> He is dead wrong about marinades not penetrating meat. I challenge
> anyone to marinate chicken in Cornell sauce overnight and claim it has
> not penetrated:
> ____________________________
>
> Cornell Marinade for Chicken
> ____________________________
>
> For 5 halves:
>
> 1/2 cup cooking oil
> 1 cup cider vinegar
> 2 tbs. salt
> 1 1/2 tsp. poultry seasoning
> 1/4 tsp. white pepper
> 1 egg
>
> Beat the egg, add the oil and beat again.
> Add the other ingredients and stir.

This is high enough in salt to behave like a light brine, which
definitely will penetrate.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 23:32:48 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

>
> "JaKe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:
>>
>> http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347
>>
>
>
> He is correct about tenderizing; it does not make it tender. Flavor is
> another story. The marinated shrimp I made last Sunday were a big hit with
> everyone.
> Ed
>
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

A vinegar based marinade will tenderize meat, but you'll have to let it
soak for at least 24 hours to notice any effect. My favorite is plain
Italian dressing on London Broil. Put the LB's in a glass bowl big enough
for the meat to be mostly covered by the dressing and keep it in the
fridge for 24 hours to five days prior to grilling.

"Paracelsus" > wrote in message
>
> A vinegar based marinade will tenderize meat, but you'll have to let it
> soak for at least 24 hours to notice any effect. My favorite is plain
> Italian dressing on London Broil. Put the LB's in a glass bowl big enough
> for the meat to be mostly covered by the dressing and keep it in the
> fridge for 24 hours to five days prior to grilling.
>

Not quite true. Marinades should contain acid, could be vinegar or citrus,
etc.

Acids denature or soften the meat. Tenderizing occurs when the muscle it
broken, bruised, or torn.

You may want to read "Marinades" by Jim Tarantino. ISBN 0-89594-531-2
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
..

"Paracelsus" > wrote in message
>
> A vinegar based marinade will tenderize meat, but you'll have to let it
> soak for at least 24 hours to notice any effect. My favorite is plain
> Italian dressing on London Broil. Put the LB's in a glass bowl big enough
> for the meat to be mostly covered by the dressing and keep it in the
> fridge for 24 hours to five days prior to grilling.
>

Not quite true. Marinades should contain acid, could be vinegar or citrus,
etc.

Acids denature or soften the meat. Tenderizing occurs when the muscle it
broken, bruised, or torn.

You may want to read "Marinades" by Jim Tarantino. ISBN 0-89594-531-2
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
..

I too think he has his head in the universal inferior orifice. He
doesn't and should separate marinading from brining. It is true surface
marinades don't tenderize and we mostly don't marinade for that reason.
Marinades certainly affect the flavor of steak, and more for seafood
regardless of how far it gets into the substance of the meat. However
brining certainly does affect flavor of the meat through and through. I
think it does something for the structure of fowl and pork, though
probably only by increasing the water content. I wonder if anyone has
tried brining with papain, or tenderizer. As well saltpeter does
something which affects the tender or nontender character of the meat.


JaKe wrote:
>
> So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:
>
> http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347
>
> --
> JaKe, Seattle
> "The main thing that we do is to rock your socks off."
> Tenacious D

I too think he has his head in the universal inferior orifice. He
doesn't and should separate marinading from brining. It is true surface
marinades don't tenderize and we mostly don't marinade for that reason.
Marinades certainly affect the flavor of steak, and more for seafood
regardless of how far it gets into the substance of the meat. However
brining certainly does affect flavor of the meat through and through. I
think it does something for the structure of fowl and pork, though
probably only by increasing the water content. I wonder if anyone has
tried brining with papain, or tenderizer. As well saltpeter does
something which affects the tender or nontender character of the meat.


JaKe wrote:
>
> So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:
>
> http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347
>
> --
> JaKe, Seattle
> "The main thing that we do is to rock your socks off."
> Tenacious D

I too think he has his head in the universal inferior orifice. He
doesn't and should separate marinading from brining. It is true surface
marinades don't tenderize and we mostly don't marinade for that reason.
Marinades certainly affect the flavor of steak, and more for seafood
regardless of how far it gets into the substance of the meat. However
brining certainly does affect flavor of the meat through and through. I
think it does something for the structure of fowl and pork, though
probably only by increasing the water content. I wonder if anyone has
tried brining with papain, or tenderizer. As well saltpeter does
something which affects the tender or nontender character of the meat.


JaKe wrote:
>
> So says NYTimes Food Writer Mark Bittman:
>
> http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=3609347
>
> --
> JaKe, Seattle
> "The main thing that we do is to rock your socks off."
> Tenacious D

Kent H. wrote:

> However brining certainly does affect flavor of the meat through and through.

I agree that given enough time brining penetrates thoroughly whereas
marinating will not no matter how much time is involved.

> I wonder if anyone has tried brining with papain, or tenderizer.

I'm not a big fan of enzymatic tenderizers. They "tenderize" in
the sense that they render the meat kind of mushy, even when used
for short periods. I've never gotten good results with them.

I prefer to buy meat that doesn't require that much tenderizing in the
first place. Maybe that will change someday when I'm retired and need
to be more cost conscious.

> As well saltpeter does
> something which affects the tender or nontender character of the meat.

On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
flavor but not tenderness.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Kent H. wrote:

> However brining certainly does affect flavor of the meat through and through.

I agree that given enough time brining penetrates thoroughly whereas
marinating will not no matter how much time is involved.

> I wonder if anyone has tried brining with papain, or tenderizer.

I'm not a big fan of enzymatic tenderizers. They "tenderize" in
the sense that they render the meat kind of mushy, even when used
for short periods. I've never gotten good results with them.

I prefer to buy meat that doesn't require that much tenderizing in the
first place. Maybe that will change someday when I'm retired and need
to be more cost conscious.

> As well saltpeter does
> something which affects the tender or nontender character of the meat.

On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
flavor but not tenderness.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Kent H. wrote:

> However brining certainly does affect flavor of the meat through and through.

I agree that given enough time brining penetrates thoroughly whereas
marinating will not no matter how much time is involved.

> I wonder if anyone has tried brining with papain, or tenderizer.

I'm not a big fan of enzymatic tenderizers. They "tenderize" in
the sense that they render the meat kind of mushy, even when used
for short periods. I've never gotten good results with them.

I prefer to buy meat that doesn't require that much tenderizing in the
first place. Maybe that will change someday when I'm retired and need
to be more cost conscious.

> As well saltpeter does
> something which affects the tender or nontender character of the meat.

On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
flavor but not tenderness.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"Reg" > wrote in message
...

> On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
> flavor but not tenderness.
>
I've been corning my own briskets and smoking them into pastrami recently.
Reg, you're quite right, cures don't change the texture of the meat. Flavor
is added with use of salt and pickling spices and tenderness is achieved by
barbecue-process cooking. Low (relatively) and slow.

Jack Curry
-Kent's an idiot-

"Reg" > wrote in message
...

> On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
> flavor but not tenderness.
>
I've been corning my own briskets and smoking them into pastrami recently.
Reg, you're quite right, cures don't change the texture of the meat. Flavor
is added with use of salt and pickling spices and tenderness is achieved by
barbecue-process cooking. Low (relatively) and slow.

Jack Curry
-Kent's an idiot-

Jack Curry wrote:

> I've been corning my own briskets and smoking them into pastrami recently.
> Reg, you're quite right, cures don't change the texture of the meat. Flavor
> is added with use of salt and pickling spices and tenderness is achieved by
> barbecue-process cooking. Low (relatively) and slow.

I'm with you. I'm now completely addicted to pastrami. It's
a fair change from what I used to be addicted to, so it's
a good thing

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Jack Curry wrote:

> I've been corning my own briskets and smoking them into pastrami recently.
> Reg, you're quite right, cures don't change the texture of the meat. Flavor
> is added with use of salt and pickling spices and tenderness is achieved by
> barbecue-process cooking. Low (relatively) and slow.

I'm with you. I'm now completely addicted to pastrami. It's
a fair change from what I used to be addicted to, so it's
a good thing

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry deletethis @cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
m...
>
> "Reg" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
> > flavor but not tenderness.
> >
> I've been corning my own briskets and smoking them into pastrami recently.
> Reg, you're quite right, cures don't change the texture of the meat.
Flavor
> is added with use of salt and pickling spices and tenderness is achieved
by
> barbecue-process cooking. Low (relatively) and slow.
>
> Jack Curry
> -Kent's an idiot-
>
What actually does the corning part play in a brisket?
is pastrami usually corned?

"Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry deletethis @cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
m...
>
> "Reg" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > On this I disagree. Nitrate/nitrite cures effect color and
> > flavor but not tenderness.
> >
> I've been corning my own briskets and smoking them into pastrami recently.
> Reg, you're quite right, cures don't change the texture of the meat.
Flavor
> is added with use of salt and pickling spices and tenderness is achieved
by
> barbecue-process cooking. Low (relatively) and slow.
>
> Jack Curry
> -Kent's an idiot-
>
What actually does the corning part play in a brisket?
is pastrami usually corned?

Mike wrote:

> What actually does the corning part play in a brisket?
> is pastrami usually corned?

This is one of those word origin discussions that I usually stay out of,
but I think I'll throw in my 2 this time.

"Corned" means cured with salt...

The best explanation I've heard is that chunks of salt used to be called
"corns" in Ye Merry Olde England or someplace, so it's a reference to salt.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:

> Kent H. wrote:
>
>> I wonder if anyone has tried brining with papain, or tenderizer.
>
> I'm not a big fan of enzymatic tenderizers. They "tenderize" in
> the sense that they render the meat kind of mushy, even when used
> for short periods. I've never gotten good results with them.
>
> I prefer to buy meat that doesn't require that much tenderizing in the
> first place. Maybe that will change someday when I'm retired and need
> to be more cost conscious.

To follow up on my own comments, here's an outstanding post
on egullet showing a picture of what pineapple juice will do
to meat after three hours. It's not a pretty sight.

There's also a bunch of other interesting factoids for
us meatheads.

SCIENCE OF THE KITCHEN
by Jack Lang

http://forums.egullet.com/index.php?showtopic=40548

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"Reg" > wrote in message
m...
> Mike wrote:
>
> > What actually does the corning part play in a brisket?
> > is pastrami usually corned?
>
> This is one of those word origin discussions that I usually stay out of,
> but I think I'll throw in my 2 this time.
>
> "Corned" means cured with salt...
>
> The best explanation I've heard is that chunks of salt used to be called
> "corns" in Ye Merry Olde England or someplace, so it's a reference to
salt.
>
Reg is right again. Corning is a salt cure for meat, used to preserve prior
to the advent of refrigeration. Pastrami is corned beef that's been
seasoned, usually with coriander, black pepper and garlic powder, then
smoked.

Jack Curry