Tried doing my first 'butt' on the WSM this weekend. I followed the
"renowned Mr. Brown" recipie in Smoke & Spice.

My butt was 5 lbs which, according to the recipie, should have taken 7.5
hrs at 200 deg. F.

Due to time constraints (people arriving for dinner) I only got about 7
hrs when I had to put it into the oven to get the internal temp up to 160
so it was safe to eat. It only spent about 25 mins in the oven @ 300 Deg.

Now....according to the book, the butt is supposed to be super tender and
be easy to literally pull apart. While the result was delicious, that
sucker was firm and juicy and there was no way it could be 'pulled'.

My first instinct was that well, it just didn't cook long enough but a) I
was only about 1/2 hr off the mark b) my best attempts at temperature
regulation saw the WSM temp run closer to 250 deg. than 200 (it was
windy) so overall, I should have been MORE cooked, rather than less.

Could I trouble a more experienced Q'er for some pointers on what I may
be doing 'wrong' ?

Thanks.

--
Mark
(remove the obvious to reply)

Mark wrote:

Due to time constraints (people arriving for dinner) I only got about 7
hrs when I had to put it into the oven to get the internal temp up to 160
so it was safe to eat. It only spent about 25 mins in the oven @ 300 Deg.

Now....according to the book, the butt is supposed to be super tender and
be easy to literally pull apart. While the result was delicious, that
sucker was firm and juicy and there was no way it could be 'pulled'.

My first instinct was that well, it just didn't cook long enough but a) I
was only about 1/2 hr off the mark b) my best attempts at temperature
regulation saw the WSM temp run closer to 250 deg. than 200 (it was
windy) so overall, I should have been MORE cooked, rather than less.

Could I trouble a more experienced Q'er for some pointers on what I may
be doing 'wrong' ?

Don't cook by time; cook by temperature of the meat. Pork butt is
pullable from between 185-200 internal. 160 is cooked but only sliceable.

You could have raised the WSM temp to 300 to shorten the cook time.

--
Aloha,

Nathan Lau
San Jose, CA

#include std.disclaimer

"Mark" wrote in message
...

snip
My butt was 5 lbs which, according to the recipie, should have taken 7.5
hrs at 200 deg. F.

Due to time constraints (people arriving for dinner) I only got about 7
hrs when I had to put it into the oven to get the internal temp up to 160
so it was safe to eat. It only spent about 25 mins in the oven @ 300 Deg.

Now....according to the book, the butt is supposed to be super tender and
be easy to literally pull apart. While the result was delicious, that
sucker was firm and juicy and there was no way it could be 'pulled'.

My first instinct was that well, it just didn't cook long enough but a) I
was only about 1/2 hr off the mark b) my best attempts at temperature
regulation saw the WSM temp run closer to 250 deg. than 200 (it was
windy) so overall, I should have been MORE cooked, rather than less.

Could I trouble a more experienced Q'er for some pointers on what I may
be doing 'wrong' ?

Thanks.

--
Mark

Mark,

Certainly not a more experienced Q'er, but I think I can diagnose the
problem.

Time baby, time :-) ...and temperature. You metioned bringing the butt up
to 160F in the oven. While 160's a great sliceable temperature, it ain't
gonna pull. Target temp for pulled pork is 190 minimum, and most folks
shoot for 195-200.

As for the 1.5 hours per pound...every piece of Q is different. Some cooks
fast, some cooks slow, and some follow the chart to a tee. Ignore your
watch, let your thermo be your guide. If you're going to be time crunched
in terms of when you need to be done, cut yourself plenty of slack. A
cooked pork butt will hold just fine in a cooler. Saran it, foil it, and
then wrap in some towels. It'll keep hot just fine.

And while you're watching that thermo, don't panic when it hits 160 and
stays there...and stays there....and stays there. It'll move when it's
ready. Relax and enjoy another cold one of your preference.

Jason - Q novice, but well taught by this group

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:04:27 GMT, Nathan Lau
wrote:

Don't cook by time; cook by temperature of the meat. Pork butt is
pullable from between 185-200 internal. 160 is cooked but only sliceable.

You could have raised the WSM temp to 300 to shorten the cook time.

What he said.

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Anything, when cooked in large enough batches, will be vile."
--Dag Right-square-bracket-gren, in alt.religion.kibology

Jason Tinling wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message
...

snip
Mark,

Certainly not a more experienced Q'er, but I think I can diagnose the
problem.

Time baby, time :-) ...and temperature. You metioned bringing the
butt up to 160F in the oven. While 160's a great sliceable
temperature, it ain't gonna pull. Target temp for pulled pork is 190
minimum, and most folks shoot for 195-200.

As for the 1.5 hours per pound...every piece of Q is different. Some
cooks fast, some cooks slow, and some follow the chart to a tee.
Ignore your watch, let your thermo be your guide. If you're going to
be time crunched in terms of when you need to be done, cut yourself
plenty of slack. A cooked pork butt will hold just fine in a cooler.
Saran it, foil it, and then wrap in some towels. It'll keep hot just
fine.

And while you're watching that thermo, don't panic when it hits 160
and stays there...and stays there....and stays there. It'll move
when it's ready. Relax and enjoy another cold one of your preference.

Jason -

So, you want to cook a pork to a temp of 200F and are only cooking it at
200? Something not seem right with that?

I'd add only one thing, don't be afraid to cook it between 250-300, 200F is
plain silly, heck anything less than 225 is strange. Try for 250-275 and
see for yourself.

--

"Duwop" wrote in message
...
Jason Tinling wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message
...

snip
Mark,

Certainly not a more experienced Q'er, but I think I can
diagnose the
problem.

Time baby, time :-) ...and temperature. You metioned
bringing the
butt up to 160F in the oven. While 160's a great sliceable
temperature, it ain't gonna pull. Target temp for pulled
pork is 190
minimum, and most folks shoot for 195-200.

As for the 1.5 hours per pound...every piece of Q is
different. Some
cooks fast, some cooks slow, and some follow the chart to a
tee.
Ignore your watch, let your thermo be your guide. If you're
going to
be time crunched in terms of when you need to be done, cut
yourself
plenty of slack. A cooked pork butt will hold just fine in a
cooler.
Saran it, foil it, and then wrap in some towels. It'll keep
hot just
fine.

And while you're watching that thermo, don't panic when it
hits 160
and stays there...and stays there....and stays there. It'll
move
when it's ready. Relax and enjoy another cold one of your
preference.

Jason -

So, you want to cook a pork to a temp of 200F and are only
cooking it at
200? Something not seem right with that?

I'd add only one thing, don't be afraid to cook it between
250-300, 200F is
plain silly, heck anything less than 225 is strange. Try for
250-275 and
see for yourself.

I agree. While I try to stay around 225 for spareribs. I think
that pulled pork is more forgiving, so a slightly higher temp
shouldn't hurt things at all. I probably wouldn't go much past
275 unless you're cooking it in pottery.

Mark wrote:
Tried doing my first 'butt' on the WSM this weekend. I followed the
"renowned Mr. Brown" recipie in Smoke & Spice.

G Throw away the book, Mark; it obviously messed you up. Go to the BBQ FAQ
at:
http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/toc.html

You need a pit temp that's closer to 250F. Even slightly higher won't hurt a
thing. Big Jim hits temps well above 300F, and his pork is, well, darn it
I'm drooling now. Aim to get your internal meat temp to 190F: NOT because
of safety, but because of pullability due to collagen and fiber breakdown in
the muscle.

Don't fret about not getting where you wanted to go... it gives you an
excuse to try again. And again. And ad infinitum. You still get a good
dinner out of the attempts that aren't exactly where you want to be. Hang in
there, buddy, and ask all the questions you wish.
Dave

In article , "Duwop"
wrote:

So, you want to cook a pork to a temp of 200F and are only cooking it at
200? Something not seem right with that?

I start butts at 200F. I want maximum time with the meat in the smoke
until it hits the 'CBP' (collagen breakdown plateau).

I'd add only one thing, don't be afraid to cook it between 250-300, 200F is
plain silly, heck anything less than 225 is strange. Try for 250-275 and
see for yourself.

Post CBP i jack 'er on up to 250F. I want lotsa smoke -especially in a
pork butt-that bark has to flavor the whole lump of pigmeat.
To each they own, tho....

monroe(plainly silly, I guess)

Mark wrote:
Tried doing my first 'butt' on the WSM this weekend. I followed the
"renowned Mr. Brown" recipie in Smoke & Spice.

My butt was 5 lbs which, according to the recipie, should have taken 7.5
hrs at 200 deg. F.

Due to time constraints (people arriving for dinner) I only got about 7
hrs when I had to put it into the oven to get the internal temp up to 160
so it was safe to eat. It only spent about 25 mins in the oven @ 300 Deg.

Now....according to the book, the butt is supposed to be super tender and
be easy to literally pull apart. While the result was delicious, that
sucker was firm and juicy and there was no way it could be 'pulled'.

My first instinct was that well, it just didn't cook long enough but a) I
was only about 1/2 hr off the mark b) my best attempts at temperature
regulation saw the WSM temp run closer to 250 deg. than 200 (it was
windy) so overall, I should have been MORE cooked, rather than less.

Could I trouble a more experienced Q'er for some pointers on what I may
be doing 'wrong' ?


It is hard to determine how long it will take a butt to cook. As a
guide, you had 7.5 hours. It could have been done in less time or it
could have taken 10 hours. Matthew, a poster in this NG, had 2 butts
cooking on the same day, same distance from heat source and weighing the
same(within in a couple OZ.) One took about 3 hours longer than the other.

You didn't get pulled pork as you wanted, but as you found out butts can
be forgiving in that you were able to have sliced pork and still
delicious. For pulled pork you need to cook to an internal temperature
of 190 - 195°. At 160°, it really is beginning to cook because that is
when the collagen starts to break down. Once broken down the meat
starts to get tender. Meat can appear to be 'hanging' at this
temperature for quite sometime and many people think it is no longer
cooking. But it is. Let it go, don't worry. After it gets through
this barrier, I suspect it will than reach 190 or so in short order.

Some books recommend 200° smoking temperature and though you can smoke
at that it takes a long time to cook. Many around here cook as high as
300° and find their results excellent. You need to experiment and find
what is acceptable for you.

If your spouse asks when it will be done just say 'it's done when it's done'

Brisket has many of the same characteristics as a butt in that you can't
identify a time it will be done with much accuracy. It's done when it's
done. :-) People have been known to cook a 15 lb. brisket and put it on
the night before(10 pm or so) and let it cook all night. 16 hours is not
uncommon.

Happy Q'en,
BBQ

Dave Bugg wrote:

Mark wrote:
Tried doing my first 'butt' on the WSM this weekend. I followed the
"renowned Mr. Brown" recipie in Smoke & Spice.

G Throw away the book, Mark; it obviously messed you up. Go to the BBQ FAQ
at:
http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/toc.html

The first butt I did was following Smoke & Spice, and it turned out
terrific. I don't recall anything in there about slavishly following the
timetable.

It's an excellent book.


Brian Rodenborn

Monroe, of course... wrote:
In article , "Duwop"
wrote:

So, you want to cook a pork to a temp of 200F and are only cooking
it at 200? Something not seem right with that?

I start butts at 200F. I want maximum time with the meat in the smoke
until it hits the 'CBP' (collagen breakdown plateau).

Ahh I see, hadnt read that approach to getting more smoke in. Damn, that
sounds like it'd work. But I'm thinking more because of the meat being at a
lower temperature for a longer time than simply "on the smoke longer". But
I'm just guessin'.
Yeah, it'd be hard NOT to cook at lower temps and the meat be on for less
time, but if you reversed your procedure, I suppose you wouldnt expect as
good a results, right?

Now I'm pretty sure I've read a few times how smoke absorption reduces
pretty drastically after the first couple of hours. Do you think that's more
dependant on the meat temp then? Sounds right.

I'd add only one thing, don't be afraid to cook it between 250-300,
200F is plain silly, heck anything less than 225 is strange. Try for
250-275 and see for yourself.

Post CBP i jack 'er on up to 250F. I want lotsa smoke -especially in a
pork butt-that bark has to flavor the whole lump of pigmeat.
To each they own, tho....

monroe(plainly silly, I guess)

Agreed! glad I didnt say something really disparaging.

Can you use raw wood in your cooker? I use oak logs to get that extra smoke,
most of which ends up on or as part of the bark really, not in the meat. Or
not much thicker a smoke ring than when I use lump anyway. But the bark is
much thicker and smokier with raw wood so when the meats chopped up the
result is good.

OK, you caught me making a KuntH type statement. Thanks for the thoughts.

Dale
--

Mark wrote:
Tried doing my first 'butt' on the WSM this weekend. I followed the
"renowned Mr. Brown" recipie in Smoke & Spice.
My butt was 5 lbs which, according to the recipie, should have taken
7.5 hrs at 200 deg. F.
Due to time constraints (people arriving for dinner) I only got about
7 hrs when I had to put it into the oven to get the internal temp up
to 160 so it was safe to eat. It only spent about 25 mins in the oven
@ 300 Deg.
Now....according to the book, the butt is supposed to be super tender
and be easy to literally pull apart. While the result was delicious,
that sucker was firm and juicy and there was no way it could be
'pulled'.
My first instinct was that well, it just didn't cook long enough but
a) I was only about 1/2 hr off the mark b) my best attempts at
temperature regulation saw the WSM temp run closer to 250 deg. than
200 (it was windy) so overall, I should have been MORE cooked, rather
than less.

First thing, toss the book since they want you to believe there's a set
formula for temp and time. Just ain't so.

I cook my butts in the 250-275°F range but don't get too excited neither if
the silly thing creeps up to 300°F. Cookin anything below 250°F just don't
make sense to me.

160°F is the meat temp you want for Q'd pork that's slicable. If ya want it
pulled, run that puppy up to 198-205°F at a minimum.
--
-frohe
Life is too short to be in a hurry

Mark wrote in message .. .
Tried doing my first 'butt' on the WSM this weekend. I followed the
"renowned Mr. Brown" recipie in Smoke & Spice.

My butt was 5 lbs which, according to the recipie, should have taken 7.5
hrs at 200 deg. F.

I have the same book, and I have no idea how they come up with their
cooking times. I cook butts at 225-250, and it takes 2 hours per pound
everytime. But, the bottom line, it's done when it's done regardless
of
the hours per pound of any recipe.

Due to time constraints (people arriving for dinner) I only got about 7
hrs when I had to put it into the oven to get the internal temp up to 160
so it was safe to eat. It only spent about 25 mins in the oven @ 300 Deg.

Ugh, that's gonna be one nasty piece of pork.

Now....according to the book, the butt is supposed to be super tender and
be easy to literally pull apart. While the result was delicious, that
sucker was firm and juicy and there was no way it could be 'pulled'

'Cause it was hours away from being done.

My first instinct was that well, it just didn't cook long enough but a) I
was only about 1/2 hr off the mark

Nope. You were off by several hours.

b) my best attempts at temperature
regulation saw the WSM temp run closer to 250 deg. than 200 (it was
windy) so overall, I should have been MORE cooked, rather than less.

It was "cooked" but not cooked long enough.

Could I trouble a more experienced Q'er for some pointers on what I may
be doing 'wrong' ?

When a butt hits the dreaded 160 point, it's gonna sit there, for
hours until it moves into the 170 range. While it's "safe to eat" at
160, it's not pulled pork. You need to cook to an internal temp of
190-200.

Next time, allow much more time, and if it's done early wrap in in
foil and rest it in an ice chest.

Duwop wrote:

Now I'm pretty sure I've read a few times how smoke absorption reduces
pretty drastically after the first couple of hours. Do you think that's more
dependant on the meat temp then? Sounds right.

Sounds right, up to a point. It's after the meat temperature reaches a certain
point (different for different meats), 130 or so for pork (IIRC, the exact temp
doesn't matter to me any more, just the concept)


I'd add only one thing, don't be afraid to cook it between 250-300,
200F is plain silly, heck anything less than 225 is strange. Try for
250-275 and see for yourself.

Post CBP i jack 'er on up to 250F. I want lotsa smoke -especially in a
pork butt-that bark has to flavor the whole lump of pigmeat.
To each they own, tho....

I've been known to raise it up to 300-350 with no ill-effects.


monroe(plainly silly, I guess)
But are we talkin' personalities here? I didn't think so. ')

Agreed! glad I didnt say something really disparaging.

Can you use raw wood in your cooker? I use oak logs to get that extra smoke,
most of which ends up on or as part of the bark really, not in the meat. Or
not much thicker a smoke ring than when I use lump anyway. But the bark is
much thicker and smokier with raw wood so when the meats chopped up the
result is good.

To us "potteryheads" just a chunk or two is plenty of wood for smoke. Much more
causes and the resulting bitterness. Think lots of that bottled smoke stuff.

OK, you caught me making a KuntH type statement. Thanks for the thoughts.

Oh, NO! You must do your penance for that one! ')

Dale
--


BOB

Jason Tinling wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message
...

snip
My butt was 5 lbs which, according to the recipie, should have taken 7.5
hrs at 200 deg. F.

Due to time constraints (people arriving for dinner) I only got about 7
hrs when I had to put it into the oven to get the internal temp up to 160
so it was safe to eat. It only spent about 25 mins in the oven @ 300 Deg.

Now....according to the book, the butt is supposed to be super tender and
be easy to literally pull apart. While the result was delicious, that
sucker was firm and juicy and there was no way it could be 'pulled'.

My first instinct was that well, it just didn't cook long enough but a) I
was only about 1/2 hr off the mark b) my best attempts at temperature
regulation saw the WSM temp run closer to 250 deg. than 200 (it was
windy) so overall, I should have been MORE cooked, rather than less.

Could I trouble a more experienced Q'er for some pointers on what I may
be doing 'wrong' ?

Thanks.

--
Mark

Mark,

Certainly not a more experienced Q'er, but I think I can diagnose the
problem.

Well, Jason, with this answer, you've just lost the "not a more experienced
Q'er" title.
You've got down the technique, all you need is practice.


Time baby, time :-) ...and temperature. You metioned bringing the butt up
to 160F in the oven. While 160's a great sliceable temperature, it ain't
gonna pull. Target temp for pulled pork is 190 minimum, and most folks
shoot for 195-200.

As for the 1.5 hours per pound...every piece of Q is different. Some cooks
fast, some cooks slow, and some follow the chart to a tee. Ignore your
watch, let your thermo be your guide. If you're going to be time crunched
in terms of when you need to be done, cut yourself plenty of slack. A
cooked pork butt will hold just fine in a cooler. Saran it, foil it, and
then wrap in some towels. It'll keep hot just fine.

And while you're watching that thermo, don't panic when it hits 160 and
stays there...and stays there....and stays there. It'll move when it's
ready. Relax and enjoy another cold one of your preference.

Jason - Q novice, but well taught by this group

Everything you say is right on track.
I will add that if you forgot and told the gang to come over too soon, crank
that WSM up a little, 350 won't hurt, the butt is very forgiving. Just start
earlier next time.

BOB
but BOB don't use no saran wrap and towels (personal preference)