"As soon as I realized that I didn't need meat to survive or to be in
good health, I began to see how forlorn it all is. If only we had a
different mentality about the drama of the cowboy and the range and
all the rest of it. It's a very romantic notion, an entrenched part of
American culture, but I've seen, for example, pigs waiting to be
slaughtered, and their hysteria and panic was something I shall never
forget." -- Chloris Leachman

Gandhi tells a story about a wise man meditating by a river. A
scorpion in a tree repeatedly falls into the water, and the wise man
rescues him each time. And each time, the scorpion stings him. Another
man sees this drama played out several times and approaches the wise
man, asking why he continues to save the scorpion and risk being stung
every time? "It is his nature to sting," says the wise man. "I am a
human. It is my nature to save."

"I think that people should start eating less meat. In case you
haven't noticed, meat is made out of animals. How would you feel if
you were a baby pig separated from your mother and about to be turned
into bacon? We don't eat dogs and cats because they are cute. Well,
pigs can be just as cute if you give them a chance." -- Isaac Bustos,
age 9, Public School 32-Bronx NY

**************************************

They just don't get it, do they, Brian?

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:48:54 GMT, "Jack Curry" Jack-Curry deletethis
@cfl.rr.com wrote:

nothing

Jack, do you realize that your "reply" to the troll shows up in most
newsreaders as a new, empty post? How does that help?

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"

Kevin S. Wilson wrote in message
...

Jack, do you realize that your "reply" to the troll shows up in most
newsreaders as a new, empty post? How does that help?


1) Define "most newsreaders". Most by count? Most by usage? I only ask
because my newsreader (OE 5.0) handles it just fine. While OE is much
maligned, it is also fairly ubiquitous.

2) Having looked at the headers for Jack's message, it appears to have the
proper information...

References:

....to associate it with the original message.

Message-ID:

Perhaps it's the newsreader's fault.

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:48:54 GMT, "Jack Curry" Jack-Curry deletethis
@cfl.rr.com wrote:

nothing

Jack, do you realize that your "reply" to the troll shows up in most
newsreaders as a new, empty post? How does that help?

I was unaware of that, Kevin. My posts have shown up on my newsreader as
replies to the OP. Perhaps the best thing, in the long run is just to
ignore the troll, but my thought was to alert all others without offering
any gratification to the troll. Maybe adding a single message word would
solve the problem?
Are there others in the ng who see blank replies as new posts?

Jack Curry

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:04:14 GMT, "Thomas Mooney"
wrote:

I only ask
because my newsreader (OE 5.0) handles it just fine.

There's the problem. I said "newsreader," not "worm and virus
dissemination system."

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:09:13 GMT, "Jack Curry" Jack-Curry deletethis
@cfl.rr.com wrote:

Perhaps the best thing, in the long run is just to
ignore the troll,

Yep.

but my thought was to alert all others without offering
any gratification to the troll.

What exactly would you be protecting us from? If the subject line
doesn't alert me to the fact that it's flame-bait, then two seconds
glancing at the body certainly does. Since your warning appears as a
separate, empty post, it takes me just as much time to open it as it
would to open the flame bait.

I honestly don't understand what you hope to accomplish.

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"

"Jack Curry" Jack-Curry deletethis @cfl.rr.com wrote in message

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:48:54 GMT, "Jack Curry" Jack-Curry deletethis
@cfl.rr.com wrote:

nothing

Jack, do you realize that your "reply" to the troll shows up in most
newsreaders as a new, empty post? How does that help?

I was unaware of that, Kevin. My posts have shown up on my
newsreader as replies to the OP. Perhaps the best thing, in the long
run is just to ignore the troll, but my thought was to alert all
others without offering any gratification to the troll. Maybe adding
a single message word would solve the problem?
Are there others in the ng who see blank replies as new posts?

Jack Curry

Perhaps the solution is to put "Troll dickhead, was..." in front of the
original subject along with the empty message body. Everybody would know not
to waste their time.

JD

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:22:42 GMT, "JD"
wrote:

Perhaps the solution is to put "Troll dickhead, was..." in front of the
original subject along with the empty message body. Everybody would know not
to waste their time.

That's a solution in search of a problem. What exactly would it
accomplish? If your intent is to keep me from wasting my time, your
efforts would be better spent urging people not to post dumbass
one-liners such as "ROFLMAO." I certainly spend more time quickly
reading such things than I do reading the flame-bait.

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:09:13 GMT, "Jack Curry" Jack-Curry deletethis
@cfl.rr.com wrote:

Perhaps the best thing, in the long run is just to
ignore the troll,

Yep.

but my thought was to alert all others without offering
any gratification to the troll.

What exactly would you be protecting us from? If the subject line
doesn't alert me to the fact that it's flame-bait, then two seconds
glancing at the body certainly does. Since your warning appears as a
separate, empty post, it takes me just as much time to open it as it
would to open the flame bait.

I honestly don't understand what you hope to accomplish.

I started when the troll was spoofing regular poster's sigs, warning that
the posts were spoofs, which seemed appropriate to me. If I am spoofed, I
hope someone will do the same.
Many of the troll's messages have not be immediately obvious as to their
nature and that's when I started posting "Troll crap," or somesuch. My
thought was and is to alert ng readers that the post is trollbait. Some ng
readers seem to think that a quick heads up such as this is a good idea, but
as I have said, I was unaware that blank posts are appearing as new
subjects, which certainly is not helpful.
Ergo, a single word response, "troll" to make the message follow in thread
may be appreciated.
It's obvious to me that the troll has accomplished at least part of its
mission by causing us to spend time discussing remedies, and that's too bad.
If we all could recognize troll bait and not respond, that would probably
solve the problem.
While I find Brian's "Please don't feed the troll" a bit annoying and while
I have no desire to be a netcop, my objective was only to make sure that we
all, regs and newbies alike recognize the troll.
You are certainly as capable as I am at troll recognition, but others
apparently are not since we've had plenty of responses.
Defense rests.

Jack Curry

Kevin S. Wilson wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:04:14 GMT, "Thomas Mooney"
wrote:

I only ask
because my newsreader (OE 5.0) handles it just fine.

There's the problem. I said "newsreader," not "worm and virus
dissemination system."


C'mon Kevin. I really expected better from you. This is exactly the type
of response you often rail against. I mean, it's cute. But it really
didn't answer the question I posed.

How about this: Show me where Forte is RFC-compliant in this regard and OE
is not, and I'll shut my mouth on the subject. But just because you use a
newsreader you feel is superior doesn't mean it isn't technically flawed.

I presented a piece of empirical evidence (the References: / Message ID:
headers) that the thread was not broken. I've never read any of the NNTP
RFCs, so I don't know if this is the gold standard. But, if you want to
point me to the portion of the appropriate RFC that shows Forte's
behavior to be more compliant than OE's, then I'll let it slide that the
majority of the posts on this newsgroup are made with OE and the vast
majority are not made with Forte.

BTW, could someone using Mozilla (the other major player here) let us know
what they "see" regarding whether Jack's responses spawn new threads for
their newsreaders.

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:22:42 GMT, "JD"
wrote:

Perhaps the solution is to put "Troll dickhead, was..." in front of the
original subject along with the empty message body. Everybody would know not
to waste their time.

That's a solution in search of a problem. What exactly would it
accomplish? If your intent is to keep me from wasting my time, your
efforts would be better spent urging people not to post dumbass
one-liners such as "ROFLMAO." I certainly spend more time quickly
reading such things than I do reading the flame-bait.

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"


Since there is obviously (to me any way) nothing in this newsgroup that meets
*YOUR* expectations and or approval, why don't you just un-subscribe and not
read any of the posts?

BOB

" BOB" wrote in message

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:22:42 GMT, "JD"
wrote:

Perhaps the solution is to put "Troll dickhead, was..." in front of
the original subject along with the empty message body. Everybody
would know not to waste their time.

That's a solution in search of a problem. What exactly would it
accomplish? If your intent is to keep me from wasting my time, your
efforts would be better spent urging people not to post dumbass
one-liners such as "ROFLMAO." I certainly spend more time quickly
reading such things than I do reading the flame-bait.

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"


Since there is obviously (to me any way) nothing in this newsgroup
that meets *YOUR* expectations and or approval, why don't you just
un-subscribe and not read any of the posts?

BOB

Because if he spewed that crap face to face in Cowtown, Idaho, some cowgirl
would shove his teeth down his throat. He's safe here.

JD

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:46:18 GMT, "Thomas Mooney"
wrote:

Kevin S. Wilson wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:04:14 GMT, "Thomas Mooney"
wrote:

I only ask
because my newsreader (OE 5.0) handles it just fine.

There's the problem. I said "newsreader," not "worm and virus
dissemination system."


C'mon Kevin. I really expected better from you. This is exactly the type
of response you often rail against. I mean, it's cute. But it really
didn't answer the question I posed.

I didn't directly answer your question because I think the question is
fundamentally flawed, because it depends on the premise that what
works for most is automatically desireable. "Majority rules" works
fine for picking whether the 6th graders want to play dodge ball or
volleyball at recess; beyond that, it isnt much help. I try to make my
posts conveniently viewable on any newsreader. That means not breaking
threaded posts by inserting a new subject line unless it is my
intention to start a new thread.

How about this: Show me where Forte is RFC-compliant in this regard and OE
is not, and I'll shut my mouth on the subject. But just because you use a
newsreader you feel is superior doesn't mean it isn't technically flawed.

I presented a piece of empirical evidence (the References: / Message ID:
headers) that the thread was not broken. I've never read any of the NNTP
RFCs, so I don't know if this is the gold standard. But, if you want to
point me to the portion of the appropriate RFC that shows Forte's
behavior to be more compliant than OE's, then I'll let it slide that the
majority of the posts on this newsgroup are made with OE and the vast
majority are not made with Forte.

Nah, I'll pass. I have better things to do than read RFCs.



--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:46:20 -0500, " BOB"
wrote:

Since there is obviously (to me any way) nothing in this newsgroup that meets
*YOUR* expectations and or approval, why don't you just un-subscribe and not
read any of the posts?

I do it to annoy you, Bob. Let me know if it's working.

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"