To inject successfully you have to have:
1. Access to the primary vessel[S] that supply the muscle mass that you
are trying to cure with the brine.
Injecting the muscle doesn't work. It's too spotty.
2. Exactly the correct amount of salt in your brine, along with
nitrates, depending on what you are trying to accomplish.
3. With turkey it just doesn't work. With leg of pork, maybe.
Happy Holidaze

Steve Wertz wrote:

Now I know y'all love to brine with a ton of spices and ingredients,
but I just don't think it's worth using anything but salt, optional
sugar, and water in a brine. I really don't get any worthwhile flavor
penetration, IMO.

So I'm gonna mainline the turkey(s) this year (for those not into
slamming speedballs or strait heroin, I'm going to inject the
turkeys).

I plan on using what you'd usually use in a brine, plus butter. Some
sort of cajun spice thang. I bought some Tony Cachere's Cajun Butter
marinade so I could get the syringe that came with it (sheaper than
buying the stringe alone), but don't plan on using it. Or should I?
It really doesn't taste bad, but I need some *real* butter in the mix
- not that artifical butter flavoring crap.

So should I let the turkey sit overnight after injecting to get a
brining effect from the salt mixture? And then inject again in the
morning? Should I expect a lot of leakage from the turkey? And will
this effect the stuffing? Should I drink bourbon or scotch?

So how does brining compare to injecting, for those of you who have
done both?

-sw

"Kent H." top posted and said something like-
Steve Wertz wrote:
So I'm gonna mainline the turkey(s) this year (for those not into
slamming speedballs or strait heroin, I'm going to inject the
turkeys).

I accidently sent my reply before I had in fact, replied.

"Kent H." top posted and said something like-

Steve Wertz said
So I'm gonna mainline the turkey(s) this year (for those not into
slamming speedballs or strait heroin, I'm going to inject the
turkeys).

bought some Tony Cachere's Cajun Butter
marinade so I could get the syringe that came with it (sheaper than
..buying the stringe alone),

I'm not familiar with that injector, but if it only has one orifice, it will
be difficult to get even distribution in the meat. There are syringes available
that come with a needle that have multiple holes along the shaft, which allows
for better distribution.
So should I let the turkey sit overnight after injecting to get a
brining effect from the salt mixture? And then inject again in the
morning?

I'd inject the night before, but I don't think a second injection would provide
much benefit.
Should I expect a lot of leakage from the turkey?

The times that I have tried injection, I experienced a fair amount of leakage.
You have poked the meat full of holes, after all.
Should I drink bourbon or scotch?

Follow your heart :-).

"Kent H." saw fit to reply with-

To inject successfully you have to have:
1. Access to the primary vessel[S] that supply the muscle mass that you
are trying to cure with the brine.
Injecting the muscle doesn't work. It's too spotty.

More whizdumb from Kent.
Kent, you've referred to the wisdom of Rytek Kutas in the past ; have you
bothered to read the book? If you had, you would know that arterial injection
is one method, (usually for the curing of a bone-in pork leg, as it prevents
bone sour) but not the only one. One can sucessfully inject muscle cuts with
the proper technique and tools.
We've been through this before, but you refuse to admit when you are wrong.
And you are wrong.

2. Exactly the correct amount of salt in your brine, along with
nitrates, depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Dear God......
You are hopeless. And clueless.

Jim

Jim wrote:

I accidently sent my reply before I had in fact, replied.

"Kent H." top posted and said something like-

Steve Wertz said
So I'm gonna mainline the turkey(s) this year (for those not into
slamming speedballs or strait heroin, I'm going to inject the
turkeys).

bought some Tony Cachere's Cajun Butter
marinade so I could get the syringe that came with it (sheaper than
.buying the stringe alone),

I'm not familiar with that injector, but if it only has one orifice, it will
be difficult to get even distribution in the meat. There are syringes available
that come with a needle that have multiple holes along the shaft, which allows
for better distribution.
So should I let the turkey sit overnight after injecting to get a
brining effect from the salt mixture? And then inject again in the
morning?

I'd inject the night before, but I don't think a second injection would provide
much benefit.
Should I expect a lot of leakage from the turkey?

The times that I have tried injection, I experienced a fair amount of leakage.
You have poked the meat full of holes, after all.
Should I drink bourbon or scotch?

Follow your heart :-).

"Kent H." saw fit to reply with-

To inject successfully you have to have:
1. Access to the primary vessel[S] that supply the muscle mass that you
are trying to cure with the brine.
Injecting the muscle doesn't work. It's too spotty.

More whizdumb from Kent.
Kent, you've referred to the wisdom of Rytek Kutas in the past ; have you
bothered to read the book? If you had, you would know that arterial injection
is one method, (usually for the curing of a bone-in pork leg, as it prevents
bone sour) but not the only one. One can sucessfully inject muscle cuts with
the proper technique and tools.
It's hard to get uniform curing effect, as I said.
We've been through this before, but you refuse to admit when you are wrong.
And you are wrong.

2. Exactly the correct amount of salt in your brine, along with
nitrates, depending on what you are trying to accomplish.
Please God, what salt concentration do you use in your injection cure?
Dear God......
You are hopeless. And clueless.


Jim

Steve Wertz wrote:

...

I'm gonna smoke one turkey, and stuff and bake the other one.

A caveat:

Stuffing a turkey is dangerous on a couple of levels:
1. WRT bacteria. You must be careful to get the temp up quickly, lest
dangerous little buggers have time to screw their icky little brains out
and multiply before you kill them, giving them the opportunity to kill you.
2. WRT your heart. Think about it. All those juices and fat that would
normally wind up in the bottom of the pan are absorbed by the bread,
then eaten by you. Tasty, yes. Safe, no. If you listen carefully, you'll
hear your arteries snapping shut. Really. I swear. Listen.

Do yourself and your family a favor and cook your stuffing separately.

Send me $5 for the terrific advice.

--
Stan
http://www.tocquevillian.com

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message
...
Now I know y'all love to brine with a ton of spices and ingredients,
but I just don't think it's worth using anything but salt, optional
sugar, and water in a brine. I really don't get any worthwhile flavor
penetration, IMO.

So I'm gonna mainline the turkey(s) this year (for those not into
slamming speedballs or strait heroin, I'm going to inject the
turkeys).

I plan on using what you'd usually use in a brine, plus butter. Some
sort of cajun spice thang. I bought some Tony Cachere's Cajun Butter
marinade so I could get the syringe that came with it (sheaper than
buying the stringe alone), but don't plan on using it. Or should I?
It really doesn't taste bad, but I need some *real* butter in the mix
- not that artifical butter flavoring crap.

So should I let the turkey sit overnight after injecting to get a
brining effect from the salt mixture? And then inject again in the
morning? Should I expect a lot of leakage from the turkey? And will
this effect the stuffing? Should I drink bourbon or scotch?

So how does brining compare to injecting, for those of you who have
done both?

-sw

I've found that you get a more potent flavor 'hit' from injecting v. brining
only. I also found that it's better for presentation purposes to inject in
a line parallel with your slicing so as to avoid the 'mark of the asp'
injection marks (not the holes, but slight discoloration from the injected
solution). I'd guess that butter, white sugar, salt and water wouldn't pose
that problem.

Yes, inject the night before and then again in the morning (it worked for
me). Leakage? I dunno, I never watched that closely while the meat cooked.
Depending on the needle diameter, dontcha think those piercings would
cauterize? I just don't picture this 'fire hose' effect happening.

Jack

PS Bourbon, it IS Thanksgiving. Oh, I know you didn't ask, but go with the
boxers.

Jack, what is the formula for your injected brine?
Thanks
Kent

"Jack Schidt®" wrote:

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message
...
Now I know y'all love to brine with a ton of spices and ingredients,
but I just don't think it's worth using anything but salt, optional
sugar, and water in a brine. I really don't get any worthwhile flavor
penetration, IMO.

So I'm gonna mainline the turkey(s) this year (for those not into
slamming speedballs or strait heroin, I'm going to inject the
turkeys).

I plan on using what you'd usually use in a brine, plus butter. Some
sort of cajun spice thang. I bought some Tony Cachere's Cajun Butter
marinade so I could get the syringe that came with it (sheaper than
buying the stringe alone), but don't plan on using it. Or should I?
It really doesn't taste bad, but I need some *real* butter in the mix
- not that artifical butter flavoring crap.

So should I let the turkey sit overnight after injecting to get a
brining effect from the salt mixture? And then inject again in the
morning? Should I expect a lot of leakage from the turkey? And will
this effect the stuffing? Should I drink bourbon or scotch?

So how does brining compare to injecting, for those of you who have
done both?

-sw

I've found that you get a more potent flavor 'hit' from injecting v. brining
only. I also found that it's better for presentation purposes to inject in
a line parallel with your slicing so as to avoid the 'mark of the asp'
injection marks (not the holes, but slight discoloration from the injected
solution). I'd guess that butter, white sugar, salt and water wouldn't pose
that problem.

Yes, inject the night before and then again in the morning (it worked for
me). Leakage? I dunno, I never watched that closely while the meat cooked.
Depending on the needle diameter, dontcha think those piercings would
cauterize? I just don't picture this 'fire hose' effect happening.

Jack

PS Bourbon, it IS Thanksgiving. Oh, I know you didn't ask, but go with the
boxers.

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message
...
Now I know y'all love to brine with a ton of spices and ingredients,
but I just don't think it's worth using anything but salt, optional
sugar, and water in a brine. I really don't get any worthwhile flavor

I'm gonna cook it in a ... gasp...plastic bag ...in the ....gasp....oven. I
s'pose it's ok 'cause I've already smoked a wild hog ham and a boston butt
in Posco the GD. Pulled the butt and gonna slice the ham. they're in the
freezer in vacc'd bags just waiting to go into boilin' water. QUESTION...do
you defrost the meat before waming it , or just toss it in from the freezer?
Haven't had the foodsaver long enough to know that one yet. BTW the turk
will get lovingly rubbed in herbs and butter, filled with apples ,oranges,
onions and carrots before going in the steambath. (Wife doesn't like the
taste of smoked turk.) She's never complained about any of many turks in a
bag though. Gonna have all the kids and grandkids ,cousins and inlaws as
well as a bunch of neighbors...they all better bring something good to
eat.I've got a case of Yellowtail Shiraz cab..which ain't too bad for a
cheap wine, and a coupla cases of beer.
Doing the smokin' beforehand leaves me more concentrated beer drinkin' time
with less stress.( More time to swing the grandkids around in a circle 'til
they throw up too. Don't know why but some of 'em seem to like that.
Hooray for Turkey Day.
Jack

"Kent H." once again favored us with his wisdom and said:


Jim wrote:
snip
One can sucessfully inject muscle cuts with
the proper technique and tools.

It's hard to get uniform curing effect, as I said.

Read carefully, Kent. This particular thread is about injecting for flavor, not
for curing.
We're not talking about cold smoking.

We've been through this before, but you refuse to admit when you are
wrong.
And you are wrong.
Again.
Regarding curing; one can achieve a good cure by injection w/o going the
arterial route.
Go and read Kutas' book, don't just look at the pictures this time.
Just because *you* haven't been able to achieve desired results, doesn't mean
that someone with a modicum of intelligence and skill will have the same
problem.
Back to the bozo bin you go.
Jim

Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people, most are idiots.

I own and read Kutas book. It doesn't have any pictures.
When you inject, you get a lot of salt in one place and none in another
place. For most home users, vat curing is far easier and more effective,
especially for fowl, which is almost impossible to inject uniformly.
When you smoke, the smoking temp. is invariable warmer than the raw
brined meat that goes into the smokehouse. During that time it warms up
slightly, but especially with turkey, it is not cooked. One must cook it
following smoking.

Jim wrote:

"Kent H." once again favored us with his wisdom and said:

Jim wrote:
snip
One can sucessfully inject muscle cuts with
the proper technique and tools.

It's hard to get uniform curing effect, as I said.

Read carefully, Kent. This particular thread is about injecting for flavor, not
for curing.
We're not talking about cold smoking.

We've been through this before, but you refuse to admit when you are
wrong.
And you are wrong.
Again.
Regarding curing; one can achieve a good cure by injection w/o going the
arterial route.
Go and read Kutas' book, don't just look at the pictures this time.
Just because *you* haven't been able to achieve desired results, doesn't mean
that someone with a modicum of intelligence and skill will have the same
problem.
Back to the bozo bin you go.
Jim

Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people, most are idiots.

Swertz it would nice and courteous if you at least spelled Tony
Chachere's name correctly.

Steve Wertz wrote:

On 22 Nov 2003 09:02:49 GMT, tose (Jim) wrote:

bought some Tony Cachere's Cajun Butter
marinade so I could get the syringe that came with it (sheaper than
.buying the stringe alone),

I'm not familiar with that injector, but if it only has one orifice, it will
be difficult to get even distribution in the meat. There are syringes available
that come with a needle that have multiple holes along the shaft, which allows
for better distribution.

It has two openings - one on each side, and slightly staggered
vertically. I figure I'll twist it as I push/pull. The instructings
give injection points, and specify to use three different angles of
injection, about 38-degress apart, in each puncture.

Should I drink bourbon or scotch?

Follow your heart :-).

Both it is, then.

I'm gonna smoke one turkey, and stuff and bake the other one.

"Kent H." saw fit to reply with

I didn't even pay attention.

-sw

Jimmy Boy, when you brine, or marinade, you are altering the salt
concentration of what you end up with. Tony Chachere's products,
including his so called injectable marinades all contain a certain
amount of salt, which adds to what you ultimately taste.

Jim wrote:

"Kent H." once again favored us with his wisdom and said:

Jim wrote:
snip
One can sucessfully inject muscle cuts with
the proper technique and tools.

It's hard to get uniform curing effect, as I said.

Read carefully, Kent. This particular thread is about injecting for flavor, not
for curing.
We're not talking about cold smoking.

We've been through this before, but you refuse to admit when you are
wrong.
And you are wrong.
Again.
Regarding curing; one can achieve a good cure by injection w/o going the
arterial route.
Go and read Kutas' book, don't just look at the pictures this time.
Just because *you* haven't been able to achieve desired results, doesn't mean
that someone with a modicum of intelligence and skill will have the same
problem.
Back to the bozo bin you go.
Jim

Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people, most are idiots.

"Jack Sloan" wrote

snip everything but the question

QUESTION...do
you defrost the meat before waming it , or just toss it in from the
freezer?
Haven't had the foodsaver long enough to know that one yet.

snip some more

I take them straight from the freezer to the pot of water Jack. Works
perfectly for me.

Brick (who buys 400 vac bags at a time, but not Foodsaver)

In article , Steve Wertz
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:51:03 GMT, "Kent H."
wrote:

Swertz it would nice and courteous if you at least spelled Tony
Chachere's name correctly.

Hey Kent! Blow me.

Hey KuntH - blow him again after that!

monroe(then blow it outcher @$$)

Kent H. wrote:

When you inject, you get a lot of salt in one place and none in another
place.

Not if you use proper technique. You need to avoid creating pockets by
drawing the needle out as you inject. You want to create well
distributed, uniform "veins" of injection as opposed to big pockets.
Improperly injecting can be worse than not injecting at all.

I like to inject to speed up the curing/brining process, especially
on larger cuts where I'm short on time.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com