"Dave Bugg" wrote in message

grin I know that, Ed. The thing that is baffeling is that the
Cookshack produces plenty of wood smoke in the combustion chamber, but it
still produces a minimum smoke ring. Personally, I don't care a bit
'cause the product it produces is decent, although not quite as good as
what my Ole Hickory produces. But it is a puzzle. If one were to read
through the Cookshack forum it would be seen that a lack of smoke ring is
accepted as part-n-parcel of using an electric pit.

Could be a temperature thing. Burning wood at different temperatures
produces different mixes of chemicals in the smoke. It may have to be
hotter to get the nitrates flowing. The electric element may be making it
smolder more than burn. Any way to get the wood going better?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in message

grin I know that, Ed. The thing that is baffeling is that the
Cookshack produces plenty of wood smoke in the combustion chamber,
but it still produces a minimum smoke ring. Personally, I don't
care a bit 'cause the product it produces is decent, although not
quite as good as what my Ole Hickory produces. But it is a puzzle.
If one were to read through the Cookshack forum it would be seen
that a lack of smoke ring is accepted as part-n-parcel of using an
electric pit.

Could be a temperature thing. Burning wood at different temperatures
produces different mixes of chemicals in the smoke. It may have to be
hotter to get the nitrates flowing. The electric element may be
making it smolder more than burn. Any way to get the wood going
better?

You might be onto something, Ed.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On 18-Jan-2008, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message

grin I know that, Ed. The thing that is baffeling is that the
Cookshack produces plenty of wood smoke in the combustion chamber, but
it
still produces a minimum smoke ring. Personally, I don't care a bit
'cause the product it produces is decent, although not quite as good as
what my Ole Hickory produces. But it is a puzzle. If one were to read
through the Cookshack forum it would be seen that a lack of smoke ring
is
accepted as part-n-parcel of using an electric pit.

Could be a temperature thing. Burning wood at different temperatures
produces different mixes of chemicals in the smoke. It may have to be
hotter to get the nitrates flowing. The electric element may be making it

smolder more than burn. Any way to get the wood going better?

I hate theories and speculation about cooking but I think Ed is tracking in
the right direction. I would sum it up like this; cooking wood to make it
smoke is not the same as burning wood to get smoke. When I throw
logs on my lump fire, they burn and produce a nice ring. When I wrap
chips and put them on the burner in my gas bullet they don't make a ring
for shit. Same with using foil pouches in my grill. Lots of smoke, but no
smoke ring. I have to consider that the gasses produced by cooking vs
burning are entirely different.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 04:52:52 GMT, "Brick"
wrote:


On 18-Jan-2008, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message

grin I know that, Ed. The thing that is baffeling is that the
Cookshack produces plenty of wood smoke in the combustion chamber, but
it
still produces a minimum smoke ring. Personally, I don't care a bit
'cause the product it produces is decent, although not quite as good as
what my Ole Hickory produces. But it is a puzzle. If one were to read
through the Cookshack forum it would be seen that a lack of smoke ring
is
accepted as part-n-parcel of using an electric pit.

Could be a temperature thing. Burning wood at different temperatures
produces different mixes of chemicals in the smoke. It may have to be
hotter to get the nitrates flowing. The electric element may be making it

smolder more than burn. Any way to get the wood going better?

I hate theories and speculation about cooking but I think Ed is tracking in
the right direction. I would sum it up like this; cooking wood to make it
smoke is not the same as burning wood to get smoke. When I throw
logs on my lump fire, they burn and produce a nice ring. When I wrap
chips and put them on the burner in my gas bullet they don't make a ring
for shit. Same with using foil pouches in my grill. Lots of smoke, but no
smoke ring. I have to consider that the gasses produced by cooking vs
burning are entirely different.

No arguments there, but a question: do you notice a difference in
flavor and/or texture between what you get from the lump & log combo
vs what you get from the gas bullet with chips?
My bullet's gas-fired, but I can run it with lump, though the
(sand-filled) water pan sits awfully close to what would be the fire
pan in that case. Thus far, I've used lump with it only for grilling.

Still doing the mental "WSM or some variant of offset" debate, here.
(and not discarding the idea of a BGE or other kamado-type unit)

"Every single religion that has a monotheistic god
winds up persecuting someone else."
-Philip Pullman
--
-denny-
(not as curmudgeonly as I useta be)

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:34:59 GMT, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:

Craig Winchell wrote:

As I say, it's just for aesthetics. First of all, I love the color,
and to me, all other things being equal, it makes the meat look more
inviting.

If you plan on doing chickens, a smoke ring can be a big headache with
customers. Chickens in the Ole Hickory always gained a pink/red coloring
which anyone familiar with smoke-roasted chickens knows is normal. But for
customers in general there is a fear of ANY reddish coloring in chickens or
turkey. I can't count the times that customers wanted to return
"undercooked" chicken EVEN with large-point and bold print on the menu
explaning the smoke-ring phenomenom. I've even have had new customers loudly
and irrationally shout at me about the uncooked chicken, threatening to sue
if they became ill and vow to "tell their friends and co-workers" about the
unsafe food.

This is never a problem with chickens done in the Cookshack, which is why I
only do my chickens in the CS. My Ole Hickory does everything else, but not
chicken anymore.


Secondly, I really believe that in a commercial venture,
with so many options out there in the marketplace, every effort must
be made to create in the consumer a sense that he's eating something
different and distinct from the norm, and I think the ring helps to
create a positive perception in that regard.

See my comment above. I've used the smoke-ring to educate my customers to
understand it's value in real barbecue. But there are so many more important
criteria of what good bbq is, that you'll have a bunch of other marketing
points to make to the consumers in your area.

As an established BBQ
connoiseur, you (and I ) know that it doesn't make a difference in
the flavor of the product. For a novice, though, perceptions and
impressions can mean a great deal.

If I may, I would like to point out that you're concern is backwards :-)
the novices are pretty ignorant about the smoke ring and don't know what it
means. It is the connoiseur that may wonder whre the ring is :-)

Of course, the bottom line is
that the consumer enjoys the food and the experience, so the quality
and flavor of the food is the primary concern. But secondarily,
anything the proprietor can do to create a positive perception that
the food is different, and that the difference makes it better, can
positively affect the bottom line.

grin I was a lot like you, Craig, and thought it would be a big deal for
customers who, in my area, didn't know bbq from marmot hole. Guess what?
When told about the 'sign of the smoke ring' the response was more like,
"Uh, ok. This stuff's great, give me another pulled-pork sandwich to go"

Cming in late on this thread but Dave has already made the point I was
gonna make after reading the first few posts.

Folks who know little about the nature of barbecue will likely be any
Barbecue restaurant/caterers main clientele and they will not likely
know or care about the riing. Folks who do know Barbecue really well,
will know, but not have to high expectations from ANY BBQ restaurant
(ask anyone in this newsgroup where the best barbecue is in their
hometown and they will all likely answer "My House" rather than any
restaurant). Finally, you will have the folks in the middle...once
who know just enough to be dangerous (or, more likely, to make an ass
of themselves). You will likely get a handful of these gourmands, but
I don't really think there will be enough of them to make much of a
differnce in how you and your 'q are received.

Focus on flavor, texture, location, marketing, location, more
marketing, startup capital, location and then find a good location.
Don't worry too much about the smoke ring, or lack thereof.

;-)

-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
http://www.chefjuke.com

On 19-Jan-2008, Denny Wheeler wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 04:52:52 GMT, "Brick"
wrote:


On 18-Jan-2008, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message

snip

I hate theories and speculation about cooking but I think Ed is tracking
in
the right direction. I would sum it up like this; cooking wood to make it
smoke is not the same as burning wood to get smoke. When I throw
logs on my lump fire, they burn and produce a nice ring. When I wrap
chips and put them on the burner in my gas bullet they don't make a ring
for shit. Same with using foil pouches in my grill. Lots of smoke, but no
smoke ring. I have to consider that the gasses produced by cooking vs
burning are entirely different.

No arguments there, but a question: do you notice a difference in
flavor and/or texture between what you get from the lump & log combo
vs what you get from the gas bullet with chips?

I don't know just how to answer that question. Yes there is a significant
difference. The smoke taste from my offset is very assertive. The difference
between one wood type and another is quite evident. Wheras the smoke
taste from the gas bullet is kind of wimpy. Consider the comparison of
the smell of hot burning leaves carried on clear autumn air versus a
smoldering, nearly burned out campfire close by with calm air.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 03:36:28 GMT, "Brick"
wrote:

No arguments there, but a question: do you notice a difference in
flavor and/or texture between what you get from the lump & log combo
vs what you get from the gas bullet with chips?

I don't know just how to answer that question. Yes there is a significant
difference. The smoke taste from my offset is very assertive. The difference
between one wood type and another is quite evident. Wheras the smoke
taste from the gas bullet is kind of wimpy. Consider the comparison of
the smell of hot burning leaves carried on clear autumn air versus a
smoldering, nearly burned out campfire close by with calm air.

Brick, for a guy who didn't know how to answer, you gave a damn' fine
one.

"Every single religion that has a monotheistic god
winds up persecuting someone else."
-Philip Pullman
--
-denny-
(not as curmudgeonly as I useta be)