"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
news:g9Mjj.10698$ac7.7083@trndny03...
Craig Winchell wrote:
I'm assuming that there must be some BBQ professionals
associated with this group, who have used Southern Prides, ...

Which model are you using, Craig?

SC-600. I can get it though doors that other smokers can't, and it
positions easily, which makes it a potentially reasonable first commercial
unit. Of course, I want an Oyler, but that will have to wait. This unit
was cheap, too, for the amount it can do. Literature says it can do 48
briskets at a time, though I think it's more like 32.

Craig Winchell

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Craig Winchell wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
news:g9Mjj.10698$ac7.7083@trndny03...
Craig Winchell wrote:
I'm assuming that there must be some BBQ professionals
associated with this group, who have used Southern Prides, ...

Which model are you using, Craig?

SC-600. I can get it though doors that other smokers can't, and it
positions easily, which makes it a potentially reasonable first
commercial unit. Of course, I want an Oyler, but that will have to
wait. This unit was cheap, too, for the amount it can do. Literature says
it can do 48 briskets at a time, though I think it's
more like 32.

I'm not familiar with this model. Is it an electric?

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
news:vrQjj.8786$ib7.5179@trndny04...
Craig Winchell wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
news:g9Mjj.10698$ac7.7083@trndny03...
Craig Winchell wrote:
I'm assuming that there must be some BBQ professionals
associated with this group, who have used Southern Prides, ...

Which model are you using, Craig?

SC-600. I can get it though doors that other smokers can't, and it
positions easily, which makes it a potentially reasonable first
commercial unit. Of course, I want an Oyler, but that will have to
wait. This unit was cheap, too, for the amount it can do. Literature
says it can do 48 briskets at a time, though I think it's
more like 32.

I'm not familiar with this model. Is it an electric?

Yes, it's the big brother of the SC-200 convection smoker, but it's quite a
bit bigger. Weighs 1000 lbs, but it's just a rectangular cross section
around 33" deep and 55" across, with double doors and the ability to smoke
600 lbs., runs on 240 single phase, but has a nice sized firebox which can
burn logs, chips or sawdust, and 8 grate racks each with about 8 sq. ft. of
surface area. It's a nice little unit, and far smaller than the gas
rotisserie units for the amount of meat it can smoke, but as it's a
convection unit, it might dry out some cuts of meat more than the
rotisseries, and probably costs more to run because the heat, at least
initially is electric (until a fire gets going). On the other hand, it's
compact enough to fit through a door and make vast amounts of Q, and it's
insulated, so it does a good job outdoors (can't fit it in my house). I
just pulled 220V single from the power to my air conditioning unit, so the
downside is that I can't use it at the same time I use my air conditioner,
without putting it on a second circuit and gettin a new main breaker and
panel. But it's winter now, so I don't need to worry about that. In any
case, I got it for $3000, which I consider a great price. I think Southern
Pride sells them for about $12,000.

Craig Winchell


--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Tutall" wrote in message
...
On Jan 17, 6:11 am, "Craig Winchell" wrote:

It's your preference and all, but if the taste and texture results are
fine, I don't understand why the lack visuals is such a killer that
you'd return the unit. Just the perfectionist in you coming out? Not
criticizing mind you, just wondering why.

I understand it looks nice and all, did 40 lbs of butt last weekend
using oak wood and you'll never see a better smoke ring than when
using wood. But I'm just as happy eating the stuff cooked over lump
with less of a ring.

FWIW, in competition they teach the judges (at least in KCBS sanctioned
judging) that the smoke ring is a "don't care" feature, not nearly as
important as the appearance (presentation), taste, and tenderness.
Nevertheless many competitors believe it helps them score better in the
appearance column. However, at competitions where the majority of the judges
have been to the judging classes, that is far less likely to hold true since
the judges have basically been taught to ignore it for scoring purposes.

I like the way it looks, but have never found smoke rings to be important to
the flavor. Nevertheless I wouldn't dispute that it improves the enjoyment
of the barbecue for many, since we do eat with our eyes too.

MartyB in KC

"Craig Winchell" wrote in message
...
Tutall, I said I *wasn't* going to get rid of the unit. I just want to
learn how to tweak it to get a broad ring. It's an electric unit, and
I've
been using hickory, oak and applewood, all logs, to produce some really
fine
Q, except for the lack of the rings. I tried with unlit lump the last
time, just thinking that it will get make higher nitrate/nitrite smoke
because it burns where the wood just smolders, and should make for hotter
smoke. And I got some ring, but it was thin. I guess the problem is in
getting a good wood fire going initially in a firebox designed to make
wood
smolder rather than burn cleanly. The smoke is copious and thick rather
than being thin blue smoke, which only seems to occur several hours later
after a fire actually gets going in there.

"Electric". Perhaps that's the problem.

Anyway FWIW, and I am not saying this is true or not, but there is a school
of thought which maintains that meat only takes on smoke flavor while its
cool, and as it warms up, the surface seals up, and no further smoke flavor
can actually get into the meat. So if you assume for a moment that this
theory is true, and you only get smoke comparable to your wood only smoker
after quite some time, then maybe, according to the theory, the meat is
getting sealed up by the heat before the right kind of smoke is produced to
create the chemical reaction that makes the smoke ring.

I'm just theorizing here, I can't say this from experience.

MartyB in KC

"Gil Faver" wrote in message
...

what the heck is a smoke ring?

It the ring a guy promises his girl when proposing if he has no money.

(ducking)

MartyB in KC

Craig Winchell wrote:

Yes, it's the big brother of the SC-200 convection smoker, but it's
quite a bit bigger.

I have two pits, a Cookshack 250 and an Ole Hickory EL. The Cookshack uses
an electric element and is about 3/4 the capacity of your SP. I don't know
why, but I don't get much of a smoke ring with the Cookshack. I learned from
other users of various electrics that this is typical; electrics don't do
well with smoke-ring production.

My Ole Hickory has a bit larger capacity than your SP, and burns logs. I has
a propane log-lighter that gets things going. The Ole hickory only has to
glance at a hunk-o-meat and it produces gorgeous smoke rings.

The best results for a smoke ring in my Cookshack comes from burning lump
with wood, but it is never close to what a non-electric pit produces.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
news:sOTjj.9622$s67.5893@trndny05...
Craig Winchell wrote:

Yes, it's the big brother of the SC-200 convection smoker, but it's
quite a bit bigger.

I have two pits, a Cookshack 250 and an Ole Hickory EL. The Cookshack uses
an electric element and is about 3/4 the capacity of your SP. I don't know
why, but I don't get much of a smoke ring with the Cookshack. I learned
from other users of various electrics that this is typical; electrics
don't do well with smoke-ring production.

My Ole Hickory has a bit larger capacity than your SP, and burns logs. I
has a propane log-lighter that gets things going. The Ole hickory only has
to glance at a hunk-o-meat and it produces gorgeous smoke rings.

The best results for a smoke ring in my Cookshack comes from burning lump
with wood, but it is never close to what a non-electric pit produces.

Thanks. I guess I"ll just learn to live with it, but I'll still try to
figure out why the smoke ring is so elusive. I got a gorgeous one on a lamb
shoulder that I put on about halfway through the smoking of some briskets,
maybe 6 hours in, The next week, I did 2 lamb shoulders about 3 hours after
I stuck a brisket on, I got no smoke ring. So I'm stymied. I guess it's
time for experimentation. When I finally get a location, I"d like to get
another smoker as well. As I say, I'm fantasizing about an Oyler, but Ebay
and BBQ Forum have Old Hickories and Southern Prides pretty inexpensively.

Craig Winchell
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

I have two pits, a Cookshack 250 and an Ole Hickory EL. The Cookshack
uses
an electric element and is about 3/4 the capacity of your SP. I don't
know why, but I don't get much of a smoke ring with the Cookshack. I
learned from other users of various electrics that this is typical;
electrics don't do well with smoke-ring production.

There is a reaction between wood smoke (and the nitrites and nitrates in it)
and the chemicals in the meat that makes the smoke ring. Lack of wood smoke
= no smoke ring.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...

I have two pits, a Cookshack 250 and an Ole Hickory EL. The Cookshack
uses
an electric element and is about 3/4 the capacity of your SP. I don't
know why, but I don't get much of a smoke ring with the Cookshack. I
learned from other users of various electrics that this is typical;
electrics don't do well with smoke-ring production.

There is a reaction between wood smoke (and the nitrites and nitrates in
it) and the chemicals in the meat that makes the smoke ring. Lack of wood
smoke = no smoke ring.

Of course, it's the reduction of myoglobin that causes the color. The
question was how to produce enough Nitric -and- Nitrous- oxide-rich=smoke to
get the job done. Because when I stick the meat into the smoker an hour or
2 after I start the smoker up, there's plenty of smoke coming from the
exhaust, but I can't get a smoke ring. I'm thinking it's because the smoke
is from wood smoldering on an electric cal-rod rather than from a fire, and
maybe the smoke isn't rich enough in nitrates and nitrites to make it happen
to an appreciable extent. So maybe the next step is to build a good fire in
the firebox prior to placing the wood in, which means making a bed of live
coals and sticking a log or 2 on top. So that's gonna be the next iteration
of experimentation, and see whether that will promote development of a ring.
And if not, I'll just live with it. Because maybe the ca-rod thing is just
not hot enough to oxidize nitrogen.

Craig Winchell

"Craig Winchell" wrote in message
...
I have a little Char-griller offset smoker (approx 500 sq. in + warming
rack) and have never had a problem getting 1/2"-3/4" smoke rings on any of
my meat. I've been having so much fun that I thought I'd go to the next
level and I got a used Southern Pride convection smoker off Ebay (will
theoretically do 600 lbs of meat on 8 racks, though up to now, I"ve never
used more than 2 racks). Problem: no smoke ring when I start unit with
meat in it, barely any smoke ring when I allow it to generate smoke for an
hour or so prior to putting the meat in. Once, I got a nice smoke ring on
a lamb shoulder, but couldn't identify what I had done to accomplish it.
Last time I started with some lump charcoal just to get a fire going in
there, and ended up with a couple millimeter smoke ring. Any suggestions,
other than to get rid of the unit? Because I'm not gonna do that, the
results, aside from the smoke ring, are excellent, and I can leave it and
forget about it for several hours at a time, which I like, rather than
being up all night trying to control a brisket smoke. any help
appreciated. I have lots of tenderquick I bought to make corned beef and
pastrami, but I don't wanna use artificial methods of getting a ring.

Thanks,
Craig Winchell


Electric smokers won't produce a smoke ring, but who cares?!? You can't
taste the smoke ring.

"Matt" wrote in message
...

"Craig Winchell" wrote in message
...
I have a little Char-griller offset smoker (approx 500 sq. in + warming
rack) and have never had a problem getting 1/2"-3/4" smoke rings on any of
my meat. I've been having so much fun that I thought I'd go to the next
level and I got a used Southern Pride convection smoker off Ebay (will
theoretically do 600 lbs of meat on 8 racks, though up to now, I"ve never
used more than 2 racks). Problem: no smoke ring when I start unit with
meat in it, barely any smoke ring when I allow it to generate smoke for an
hour or so prior to putting the meat in. Once, I got a nice smoke ring on
a lamb shoulder, but couldn't identify what I had done to accomplish it.
Last time I started with some lump charcoal just to get a fire going in
there, and ended up with a couple millimeter smoke ring. Any suggestions,
other than to get rid of the unit? Because I'm not gonna do that, the
results, aside from the smoke ring, are excellent, and I can leave it and
forget about it for several hours at a time, which I like, rather than
being up all night trying to control a brisket smoke. any help
appreciated. I have lots of tenderquick I bought to make corned beef and
pastrami, but I don't wanna use artificial methods of getting a ring.

Thanks,
Craig Winchell


Electric smokers won't produce a smoke ring, but who cares?!? You can't
taste the smoke ring.

As I say, it's just for aesthetics. First of all, I love the color, and to
me, all other things being equal, it makes the meat look more inviting.
Secondly, I really believe that in a commercial venture, with so many
options out there in the marketplace, every effort must be made to create in
the consumer a sense that he's eating something different and distinct from
the norm, and I think the ring helps to create a positive perception in that
regard. As an established BBQ connoiseur, you (and I ) know that it doesn't
make a difference in the flavor of the product. For a novice, though,
perceptions and impressions can mean a great deal. Of course, the bottom
line is that the consumer enjoys the food and the experience, so the quality
and flavor of the food is the primary concern. But secondarily, anything
the proprietor can do to create a positive perception that the food is
different, and that the difference makes it better, can positively affect
the bottom line.

Craig Winchell

Hello Craig,

Have you considered cold-smoking the meat to develop an
extended smoke ring? Something like a Bradley smoke
generator into a refrigerator might work, though I
wonder about the chance of getting too much smoke into
the meat this way; you'd have to go easy when actually
cooking the meat. I've never tried this myself, though,
and it would require some experimentation to get the
effect you want - if it is possible at all :-).

There are probably also additional food safety issues to
think about, especially for a commercial operation. Our
resident expert on that topic is none other than Dave Bugg.

Cheers,
Dana

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
I have two pits, a Cookshack 250 and an Ole Hickory EL. The
Cookshack uses
an electric element and is about 3/4 the capacity of your SP. I
don't know why, but I don't get much of a smoke ring with the
Cookshack. I learned from other users of various electrics that
this is typical; electrics don't do well with smoke-ring production.

There is a reaction between wood smoke (and the nitrites and nitrates
in it) and the chemicals in the meat that makes the smoke ring. Lack
of wood smoke = no smoke ring.

grin I know that, Ed. The thing that is baffeling is that the Cookshack
produces plenty of wood smoke in the combustion chamber, but it still
produces a minimum smoke ring. Personally, I don't care a bit 'cause the
product it produces is decent, although not quite as good as what my Ole
Hickory produces. But it is a puzzle. If one were to read through the
Cookshack forum it would be seen that a lack of smoke ring is accepted as
part-n-parcel of using an electric pit.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Craig Winchell wrote:

As I say, it's just for aesthetics. First of all, I love the color,
and to me, all other things being equal, it makes the meat look more
inviting.

If you plan on doing chickens, a smoke ring can be a big headache with
customers. Chickens in the Ole Hickory always gained a pink/red coloring
which anyone familiar with smoke-roasted chickens knows is normal. But for
customers in general there is a fear of ANY reddish coloring in chickens or
turkey. I can't count the times that customers wanted to return
"undercooked" chicken EVEN with large-point and bold print on the menu
explaning the smoke-ring phenomenom. I've even have had new customers loudly
and irrationally shout at me about the uncooked chicken, threatening to sue
if they became ill and vow to "tell their friends and co-workers" about the
unsafe food.

This is never a problem with chickens done in the Cookshack, which is why I
only do my chickens in the CS. My Ole Hickory does everything else, but not
chicken anymore.


Secondly, I really believe that in a commercial venture,
with so many options out there in the marketplace, every effort must
be made to create in the consumer a sense that he's eating something
different and distinct from the norm, and I think the ring helps to
create a positive perception in that regard.

See my comment above. I've used the smoke-ring to educate my customers to
understand it's value in real barbecue. But there are so many more important
criteria of what good bbq is, that you'll have a bunch of other marketing
points to make to the consumers in your area.

As an established BBQ
connoiseur, you (and I ) know that it doesn't make a difference in
the flavor of the product. For a novice, though, perceptions and
impressions can mean a great deal.

If I may, I would like to point out that you're concern is backwards :-)
the novices are pretty ignorant about the smoke ring and don't know what it
means. It is the connoiseur that may wonder whre the ring is :-)

Of course, the bottom line is
that the consumer enjoys the food and the experience, so the quality
and flavor of the food is the primary concern. But secondarily,
anything the proprietor can do to create a positive perception that
the food is different, and that the difference makes it better, can
positively affect the bottom line.

grin I was a lot like you, Craig, and thought it would be a big deal for
customers who, in my area, didn't know bbq from marmot hole. Guess what?
When told about the 'sign of the smoke ring' the response was more like,
"Uh, ok. This stuff's great, give me another pulled-pork sandwich to go"

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com