In the Bradley forum, there's been a small discussion that might be of
general interest to this newsgroup. It centered around the soft skin of
wings that have only been smoked "low and slow," compared to being
grilled. There were comments about using maximum airflow to aid in
drying the outside of the wings, but also some discussion about other
ways to handle it. IMHO, drying the wings to get the skin harder is
counterproductive to moist meat inside the skin.

In my own case, the wings I recently did were very satisfactory to me.
I first marinated them under vacuum in apple juice, garlic and salt,
then smoked them with apple wood in the Bradley "low and slow." The
moisture literally dripped from them, but the skin had the look and feel
of baked or steamed chicken, rather than the crispy skin most of us
prefer.

In my own case, I then finished the wings off on the IR cooker I built.
The result of the combination of marinating, smoking and then grilling
was the best wings I've produced. The meat was soft, and sweet juice
would literally drip out when you'd bite into the wings, However, the
skin was nicely charred/crisped up, giving them a great texture and was
not rubbery at all.

This morning, for breakfast, I had some of the leftover wings, straight
from the Bradley smoker. I microwaved them to get them warm, then gave
them 45 SECONDS on the IR grill before digging in. The leftovers were
virtually identical to the initial product a couple days back, very
crisp on the outside and dripping with juice inside.

To be honest, I also keep an LP torch out in the drawer of my main grill
and use it frequently. Actually, I use it less frequently than before I
built the IR grill, but still use it a lot. For instance, when grilling
skewered shrimp or scallops, I cook them under moderate heat on the
grill, then flame the outside with the torch before taking them off.
The torch gives the corners and little pieces a blackened, charred, look
and flavor without any drying of the meat itself. It looks great and
adds tremendously to the flavor. I've also used the same torch on the
fat on the outside of steaks and chops with great success.

So often, some of us fall into a groove where we only consider one way
of cooking at a time. I sure as heck do. However, by combining
different techniques and equipment, you can frequently get the best of
several different worlds.
--
---Nonnymus---
In the periodic table, as in politics,
the unstable elements tend to hang out on
the far left, with some to the right as well.

Interesting observations. Thanks for your insights.

On the subject of infrared grills, I've been seeing a new grill at
Costco that features an IR grill burner (the rightmost of four on the
grill proper), an IR rotisserie burner, and what looks to be an IR or
possibly catalytic pot burner on the right wing of the grill.

Overall, it's a pretty attractive package, at a pretty attractive price
($399 if I recall correctly), with lots of SS glitz, a number of
included accessories, and a fairly compact footprint.

I'm wondering whether anyone else has seen one / own one / have an
opinion on one? With your comments on the benefits of your IR grill, it
does look tempting.

Bob
==================================
In article ,
says...
In the Bradley forum, there's been a small discussion that might be of
general interest to this newsgroup. It centered around the soft skin of
wings that have only been smoked "low and slow," compared to being
grilled. There were comments about using maximum airflow to aid in
drying the outside of the wings, but also some discussion about other
ways to handle it. IMHO, drying the wings to get the skin harder is
counterproductive to moist meat inside the skin.

In my own case, the wings I recently did were very satisfactory to me.
I first marinated them under vacuum in apple juice, garlic and salt,
then smoked them with apple wood in the Bradley "low and slow." The
moisture literally dripped from them, but the skin had the look and feel
of baked or steamed chicken, rather than the crispy skin most of us
prefer.

In my own case, I then finished the wings off on the IR cooker I built.
The result of the combination of marinating, smoking and then grilling
was the best wings I've produced. The meat was soft, and sweet juice
would literally drip out when you'd bite into the wings, However, the
skin was nicely charred/crisped up, giving them a great texture and was
not rubbery at all.

This morning, for breakfast, I had some of the leftover wings, straight
from the Bradley smoker. I microwaved them to get them warm, then gave
them 45 SECONDS on the IR grill before digging in. The leftovers were
virtually identical to the initial product a couple days back, very
crisp on the outside and dripping with juice inside.

To be honest, I also keep an LP torch out in the drawer of my main grill
and use it frequently. Actually, I use it less frequently than before I
built the IR grill, but still use it a lot. For instance, when grilling
skewered shrimp or scallops, I cook them under moderate heat on the
grill, then flame the outside with the torch before taking them off.
The torch gives the corners and little pieces a blackened, charred, look
and flavor without any drying of the meat itself. It looks great and
adds tremendously to the flavor. I've also used the same torch on the
fat on the outside of steaks and chops with great success.

So often, some of us fall into a groove where we only consider one way
of cooking at a time. I sure as heck do. However, by combining
different techniques and equipment, you can frequently get the best of
several different worlds.

On 13-Dec-2006, Nonnymus wrote:

In the Bradley forum, there's been a small discussion that might be of
general interest to this newsgroup.

snip

So often, some of us fall into a groove where we only consider one way
of cooking at a time. I sure as heck do. However, by combining
different techniques and equipment, you can frequently get the best of
several different worlds.
--
---Nonnymus---

I didn't want to quote Nonny's whole post, so I butchered it pretty badly.
I think Nonny has made a good point. It's easy to fall into a rut. I don't
have Nonny's IR rig, but I have a nice deep fryer. I'm wondering if a few
seconds in the deep fryer after smoking low and slow might crisp up
that chicken skin without ruining the overall product. I don't know when
I might get too it, but I'll try to report on it before I go toes up. Lately
I
got my grinder knife and plates back from Fosco (Thank you Fos) and
immediately ground up some pulled pork, roasted potatoes, garlic and
onions to make hash. I mixed an egg, some S & P + pepper flakes.
Today, I cooked a no name corned beef. It came without a spice packet,
so I added two tbsp of pickling spice to the water. I braised it the
recommended three hours and it wasn't done yet. I have it another
hour and then added a head of cabbage. After another 30 minutes, it
was pretty decent. I scored another two containers of planned over
lunch. Today's tip. Don't buy a no name corned beef. Buy only name
brands when the price is right. There's a big difference. Second tip,
pickling spice is like curry. They ain't all alike. The one I used today
is not my favorite.
--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

wrote:
, but I have a nice deep fryer. I'm wondering if a few
seconds in the deep fryer after smoking low and slow might crisp up
that chicken skin without ruining the overall product. I don't know when
I might get too it, but I'll try to report on it before I go toes up.

I bet that it'd be the same. Both apply a lot of heat and if you can
do it quickly, then it should work the same. The only difference would
be that the deep fat fryer at 300f to 400f might take a tad longer than
the ~2000f of the IR grill. You might think about reversing what I do
and go with the COLD chicken in the fryer, then heat up the inside
afterward to cut down on the actual cooking of the inside by the oil.


Lately
Today's tip. Don't buy a no name corned beef. Buy only name
brands when the price is right. There's a big difference. Second tip,
pickling spice is like curry. They ain't all alike. The one I used today
is not my favorite.

All I can do is shout, "Amen." What brand(s) do you favor and what
brand(s) of spices do you suggest?

We also cook the cabbage in with the corned beef. Once, and I cannot
explain why, the cabbage turned out too hot I (spicy) to eat, but it was
only once. Otherwise, it just picks up the remainder of the spice's
flavor.

--
---Nonnymus---
In the periodic table, as in politics,
the unstable elements tend to hang out on
the far left, with some to the right as well.

yetanotherBob wrote:
Interesting observations. Thanks for your insights.

On the subject of infrared grills, I've been seeing a new grill at
Costco that features an IR grill burner (the rightmost of four on the
grill proper), an IR rotisserie burner, and what looks to be an IR or
possibly catalytic pot burner on the right wing of the grill.

Overall, it's a pretty attractive package, at a pretty attractive price
($399 if I recall correctly), with lots of SS glitz, a number of
included accessories, and a fairly compact footprint.

I'm wondering whether anyone else has seen one / own one / have an
opinion on one? With your comments on the benefits of your IR grill, it
does look tempting.

Bob

I don't belong to Costco, so I've not seen the grill you're talking
about. At Barbeques Galore, I recall seeing several grills with an IR
burner(s) on one side. Maybe it's becoming popular or a fad. What
bothered me no end about those, however, was that they used the same
grate of round SS bars, clear across and including the IR section. The
IR grills that work best use V-shaped grates that trap about 2/3 of the
drippings in the V, with only 1/3 dripping onto the emitter. It's that
combination of flame and smoke that makes a difference, IMHO. The
round bars would let all the drippings fall to the emitters and I would
anticipate a lot more flame and SOOT on the meat cooked above such an
arrangement.

I also think that the IR-modified traditional grills have the emitters
too small and too far away from the grates and don't have enough emitter
area compared to a dedicated unit. Still, they're better than nothing,
or just a gas grill, I'd guess.

It's difficult to describe what it looks like cooking a steak on my home
made unit with the "V-shaped" grate. The emitters are about 4" to 5"
below the grates, cover all the area below them, and glow a light
yellowish color when heated after about a minute. Anything left on the
grates from a previous cooking turns to a white ash within a minute or
so. A steak placed on the grates almost immediately begins to drip.
The drippings that fall between the V grates are vaporized as they reach
the emitter 4"-5" below, and become almost like a glowing vapor. There
is some fire, but it's a whitish kind of fire. The juices that are
caught by the grates, gravity drain to the back, since I sloped them
that way. However, almost all are vaporized by the time they've
traveled 2"-3" down the grate and the vapors burn (frequently) above,
not below, the meat. Where the meat covers the grates, there is no
oxygen to permit burning- just where the juices pass beyond the meat.
It's very weird to watch.

The result with smoke-cooked wings, for instance, is that 45 seconds
(that includes almost continuous turning) chars the wing skin nicely and
gives it a nice bark. A room temperature ribeye takes 2 minutes per
side to get it just above rare in the middle. Shrimp on a skewer get
about 15 seconds per side maximum after being cooked over the grill to
give them a nice blackening on their edges. It's a lot of fun to play
with, and I've barely scratched the surface. It's also fantastic in the
way it removes hair from the back of your hands. grin The IR grill is
not what you'd use on anything beyond beef, IMHO, since it is too hot
and does not cook the inside. However, it's great to finish off other
food that's been already prepared.
--
---Nonnymus---
In the periodic table, as in politics,
the unstable elements tend to hang out on
the far left, with some to the right as well.

On 13-Dec-2006, Nonnymus wrote:

wrote:
, but I have a nice deep fryer. I'm wondering if a few
seconds in the deep fryer after smoking low and slow might crisp up
that chicken skin without ruining the overall product. I don't know when
I might get too it, but I'll try to report on it before I go toes up.

I bet that it'd be the same. Both apply a lot of heat and if you can
do it quickly, then it should work the same. The only difference would
be that the deep fat fryer at 300f to 400f might take a tad longer than
the ~2000f of the IR grill. You might think about reversing what I do
and go with the COLD chicken in the fryer, then heat up the inside
afterward to cut down on the actual cooking of the inside by the oil.


Lately
Today's tip. Don't buy a no name corned beef. Buy only name
brands when the price is right. There's a big difference. Second tip,
pickling spice is like curry. They ain't all alike. The one I used today
is not my favorite.

All I can do is shout, "Amen." What brand(s) do you favor and what
brand(s) of spices do you suggest?

The only two that I can remember are Hormel and Smithfield. I find both
to be acceptable.


We also cook the cabbage in with the corned beef. Once, and I cannot
explain why, the cabbage turned out too hot I (spicy) to eat, but it was
only once. Otherwise, it just picks up the remainder of the spice's
flavor.

I also cook the cabbage with the corned beef, but add it to the pot within
30 mins of the end of cooking time. My corned beef takes at least three
hours.


--
---Nonnymus---

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

Still more useful info! Thanks again. I'm going to make a trip to a
BBQ Galore to take a look at that small IR grill (I think you) mentioned
a while back.

Bob
======================
In article ,
says...

I don't belong to Costco, so I've not seen the grill you're talking
about. At Barbeques Galore, I recall seeing several grills with an IR
burner(s) on one side. Maybe it's becoming popular or a fad. What
bothered me no end about those, however, was that they used the same
grate of round SS bars, clear across and including the IR section. The
IR grills that work best use V-shaped grates that trap about 2/3 of the
drippings in the V, with only 1/3 dripping onto the emitter. It's that
combination of flame and smoke that makes a difference, IMHO. The
round bars would let all the drippings fall to the emitters and I would
anticipate a lot more flame and SOOT on the meat cooked above such an
arrangement.

I also think that the IR-modified traditional grills have the emitters
too small and too far away from the grates and don't have enough emitter
area compared to a dedicated unit. Still, they're better than nothing,
or just a gas grill, I'd guess.

It's difficult to describe what it looks like cooking a steak on my home
made unit with the "V-shaped" grate. The emitters are about 4" to 5"
below the grates, cover all the area below them, and glow a light
yellowish color when heated after about a minute. Anything left on the
grates from a previous cooking turns to a white ash within a minute or
so. A steak placed on the grates almost immediately begins to drip.
The drippings that fall between the V grates are vaporized as they reach
the emitter 4"-5" below, and become almost like a glowing vapor. There
is some fire, but it's a whitish kind of fire. The juices that are
caught by the grates, gravity drain to the back, since I sloped them
that way. However, almost all are vaporized by the time they've
traveled 2"-3" down the grate and the vapors burn (frequently) above,
not below, the meat. Where the meat covers the grates, there is no
oxygen to permit burning- just where the juices pass beyond the meat.
It's very weird to watch.

The result with smoke-cooked wings, for instance, is that 45 seconds
(that includes almost continuous turning) chars the wing skin nicely and
gives it a nice bark. A room temperature ribeye takes 2 minutes per
side to get it just above rare in the middle. Shrimp on a skewer get
about 15 seconds per side maximum after being cooked over the grill to
give them a nice blackening on their edges. It's a lot of fun to play
with, and I've barely scratched the surface. It's also fantastic in the
way it removes hair from the back of your hands. grin The IR grill is
not what you'd use on anything beyond beef, IMHO, since it is too hot
and does not cook the inside. However, it's great to finish off other
food that's been already prepared.

yetanotherBob wrote:
Still more useful info! Thanks again. I'm going to make a trip to a
BBQ Galore to take a look at that small IR grill (I think you) mentioned
a while back.

Bob

Yes, that's the one. It's top drawer, IMHO. The unit is designed with
just one IR emitter and runs on LP. Right out of the box, it does a
very good job and has the V grates. It's about $180, but I got my first
one on sale for $150 and the second one, for parts, was scratch and dent
at $120. The granddaddy of the IR cookers is the TEC line, but they're
way to proud of their product for my billfold.
--
---Nonnymus---
In the periodic table, as in politics,
the unstable elements tend to hang out on
the far left, with some to the right as well.

On 14-Dec-2006, Nonnymus wrote:

yetanotherBob wrote:
Still more useful info! Thanks again. I'm going to make a trip to a
BBQ Galore to take a look at that small IR grill (I think you) mentioned

a while back.

Bob

Yes, that's the one. It's top drawer, IMHO. The unit is designed with
just one IR emitter and runs on LP. Right out of the box, it does a
very good job and has the V grates. It's about $180, but I got my first
one on sale for $150 and the second one, for parts, was scratch and dent
at $120. The granddaddy of the IR cookers is the TEC line, but they're
way to proud of their product for my billfold.
--
---Nonnymus---

I've just reread Nonny's post about how his modified IR cooker works and
it occurred to me that one of those fish filet holder thingy's that sandwich
the filet(s) between wire grates, would be ideal in Nonny's world for
handling
a mess of chicken wings all at one time on that IR sizzler of his.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

Super idea, Brick. If I end up with one, I might remove the grates
before using it. Good idea.

Nonny

wrote:
On 14-Dec-2006, Nonnymus wrote:

yetanotherBob wrote:
Still more useful info! Thanks again. I'm going to make a trip to a
BBQ Galore to take a look at that small IR grill (I think you) mentioned

a while back.

Bob
Yes, that's the one. It's top drawer, IMHO. The unit is designed with
just one IR emitter and runs on LP. Right out of the box, it does a
very good job and has the V grates. It's about $180, but I got my first
one on sale for $150 and the second one, for parts, was scratch and dent
at $120. The granddaddy of the IR cookers is the TEC line, but they're
way to proud of their product for my billfold.
--
---Nonnymus---

I've just reread Nonny's post about how his modified IR cooker works and
it occurred to me that one of those fish filet holder thingy's that sandwich
the filet(s) between wire grates, would be ideal in Nonny's world for
handling
a mess of chicken wings all at one time on that IR sizzler of his.


--
---Nonnymus---
In the periodic table, as in politics,
the unstable elements tend to hang out on
the far left, with some to the right as well.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:21:56 GMT, wrote:

(brand name corned beef)
All I can do is shout, "Amen." What brand(s) do you favor and what
brand(s) of spices do you suggest?

The only two that I can remember are Hormel and Smithfield. I find both
to be acceptable.

If you're in the Seattle area, you can score *great* corned beef at
Market House Meats--but I'd not recommend buying there just before St.
Paddy's. That's because the line to buy goes around the block.
(also the source of the best pastrami around)

-denny-
--

The test of courage comes when we are in the minority.
The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority.