Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with the
idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my problem: I'm
an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue, so I don't know what
it's supposed to be like. All I know is that there was nothing compelling
about my first attempt. I know, however, that this must be because mine was
not what it's supposed to be. Not that it wasn't good, mind you, it just
wasn't addictive in the way that barbecue theoretically should be. Since
I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher animals- beef,
lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and bison. So I'm
embarking upon a journey here, to create memorable BBQ, and I need to know
what it's supposed to be. And there are no kosher restaurants I can go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Craig

Craig Winchell wrote:

Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with the
idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my problem: I'm
an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue, so I don't know what
it's supposed to be like. All I know is that there was nothing compelling
about my first attempt. I know, however, that this must be because mine was
not what it's supposed to be. Not that it wasn't good, mind you, it just
wasn't addictive in the way that barbecue theoretically should be. Since
I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher animals- beef,
lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and bison. So I'm
embarking upon a journey here, to create memorable BBQ, and I need to know
what it's supposed to be. And there are no kosher restaurants I can go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?


No worries. Beef, lamb, sheep, goat, venison and bison
is quite a large canvas. A whole lot of possibilities
there.

We can't really diagnose your first try without seeing
the recipe, or at least a reasonable description of
what you did.

Here's a few ideas to consider. Using a thermometer
to check the internal temperature is key, especially
when you're learning.

Roast beef

Using a whole eye of round, sirloin tip, etc, salt
and pepper the outside then smoke at 250 F until 130 F
in the center. I like to brown the roast in a cast iron
skillet or on the grill first but that's not required.
Slice thinly across the grain. Best roast beef you'll
ever eat.

Smoked leg of lamb

Bone, roll and tie it (or buy it that way), salt and pepper
the outside, then smoke at 250 F until 135 F in the center.
You can brown this first too if you want. Makes killer
sandwiches. You can also save a few bucks by using a
shoulder roast instead of leg.

Beef ribs (a personal favorite)

Smoke at 250 F until tender. It usually takes about
4-5 hours, but go by tenderness instead of time. Cut
a rib off and take a bite. If it's tender enough for you,
it's done. I like a rub of salt, black pepper, and
garlic powder here. Nothing complicated.

--
Reg

Craig Winchell wrote:
Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with
the idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my
problem: I'm an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue,
so I don't know what it's supposed to be like. All I know is that
there was nothing compelling about my first attempt. I know,
however, that this must be because mine was not what it's supposed to
be. Not that it wasn't good, mind you, it just wasn't addictive in
the way that barbecue theoretically should be. Since I'm an orthodox
Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher animals- beef, lamb or
sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and bison. So I'm
embarking upon a journey here, to create memorable BBQ, and I need to
know what it's supposed to be. And there are no kosher restaurants I
can go to to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Might ask your Rabbi if he knows anyone that does bbq. That way you
have someone to compare notes with, and you don't have to worry
about taste-testing what they have made.

BBQ is a different way of preparing food. Much like baked, fried,
or bbq chicken. The smoke gives it a different flavor and slowly
cooking a tough cut of meat (brisket) makes it more tender.
Can't turkey and chicken also be kosher?

Guess bbq is more a journey than a destination.

Google came up with this. http://www.kosherbbq.com/

--
DougW

Craig Winchell wrote:
Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with the
idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my problem: I'm
an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue, so I don't know what
it's supposed to be like. All I know is that there was nothing compelling
about my first attempt. I know, however, that this must be because mine was
not what it's supposed to be. Not that it wasn't good, mind you, it just
wasn't addictive in the way that barbecue theoretically should be. Since
I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher animals- beef,
lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and bison. So I'm
embarking upon a journey here, to create memorable BBQ, and I need to know
what it's supposed to be. And there are no kosher restaurants I can go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Craig

BBQ isn't completely foreign to your Jewish heritage; pastrami is
essentially a smoked corned beef covered in crushed coriander and pepper.

JD

Montreal smoked meat is extremely Jewish, just like bagels.

Most dry curing of meats prior to smoking uses the Kosher method, even for us non jews.

Dig a bit deeper and all will be revealed. Good luck.


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"DougW" wrote in message
...
BBQ is a different way of preparing food. Much like baked, fried,
or bbq chicken. The smoke gives it a different flavor and slowly
cooking a tough cut of meat (brisket) makes it more tender.
Can't turkey and chicken also be kosher?

Guess bbq is more a journey than a destination.

Google came up with this. http://www.kosherbbq.com/

Unfortunately, this web site is not real BBQ- no smoker.

Craig

--
DougW

In article . net,
says...
Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with the
idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my problem: I'm
an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue, so I don't know what
it's supposed to be like. All I know is that there was nothing compelling
about my first attempt. I know, however, that this must be because mine was
not what it's supposed to be. Not that it wasn't good, mind you, it just
wasn't addictive in the way that barbecue theoretically should be. Since
I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher animals- beef,
lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and bison. So I'm
embarking upon a journey here, to create memorable BBQ, and I need to know
what it's supposed to be. And there are no kosher restaurants I can go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Craig



Hi Craig, long time no see. Three words, beef back ribs.

Get the ones they've removed from a rib roast to make rib eye steaks.

Salt, pepper, smoke at 250F 'till they're about to fall off the bone.

Bill Still herfin' to the oldies.
--
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.

"Bill" wrote in message
news:MPG.1fe15cfb19383e94989758@localhost...
In article . net,
says...
Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with the
idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my problem:
I'm
an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue, so I don't know
what
it's supposed to be like. All I know is that there was nothing
compelling
about my first attempt. I know, however, that this must be because mine
was
not what it's supposed to be. Not that it wasn't good, mind you, it just
wasn't addictive in the way that barbecue theoretically should be. Since
I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher animals-
beef,
lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and bison. So I'm
embarking upon a journey here, to create memorable BBQ, and I need to
know
what it's supposed to be. And there are no kosher restaurants I can go
to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Craig



Hi Craig, long time no see. Three words, beef back ribs.

Get the ones they've removed from a rib roast to make rib eye steaks.

Salt, pepper, smoke at 250F 'till they're about to fall off the bone.

OK, I'll try that. I'm still herfin' myself, but haven't had time for ASC
in a long time. Still selling my wine, though I sold the winery facility
last year. Where you located now? I'm in the LA area. If you send me your
email, we can take this off-line. Good to hear from an old friend.

Craig

Bill Still herfin' to the oldies.
--
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.

"Craig Winchell" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
says...
[ . . . ] And there are no kosher restaurants I can
go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?
[]
I'm in the LA area. If you
send me your email, we can take this off-line. Good to hear from an old
friend.

Craig, you're in the LA area and you don't know of any Kosher restaurants?
Surely you jest! I'm a Bronx goy in N. Hollywood and I can steer ya to
several.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
~Semper Fi~

wrote in message
...
"Craig Winchell" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
says...
[ . . . ] And there are no kosher restaurants I can
go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?
[]
I'm in the LA area. If you
send me your email, we can take this off-line. Good to hear from an old
friend.

Craig, you're in the LA area and you don't know of any Kosher restaurants?
Surely you jest! I'm a Bronx goy in N. Hollywood and I can steer ya to
several.

NO. I know a low of kosher restaurants, and all across the country, too.
But none are BBQ restaurants, none serve the authentic stuff. For instance,
their idea of BBQ beef ribs is roasted ribs slathered with bottled sauce,
rather than carefully smoked brisket or ribs lovingly rubbed with spices,
then smoked. There's Dougies BBQ in New York and New Jersey, but the
commercial unsmoked rib slathering is all they do as far as BBQ, and they
serve some very commercial Buffalo Wings as well as burgers, etc. Nothing
wrong with that, but it's not barbecue.

Craig

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! !
!
~Semper Fi~

"Craig Winchell" wrote:
wrote in message
"Craig Winchell" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
says...
[ . . . ] And there are no kosher restaurants I can
go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?
[]
I'm in the LA area. If you
send me your email, we can take this off-line. Good to hear from an
old friend.

Craig, you're in the LA area and you don't know of any Kosher
restaurants? Surely you jest! I'm a Bronx goy in N. Hollywood and I can
steer ya to several.

NO. I know a low of kosher restaurants, and all across the country, too.
But none are BBQ restaurants, none serve the authentic stuff. For
instance, their idea of BBQ beef ribs is roasted ribs slathered with
bottled sauce, rather than carefully smoked brisket or ribs lovingly
rubbed with spices, then smoked. There's Dougies BBQ in New York and New
Jersey, but the commercial unsmoked rib slathering is all they do as far
as BBQ, and they serve some very commercial Buffalo Wings as well as
burgers, etc. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not barbecue.

OK, Craig. Understood and no argument. You're not trying to replicate
restaurant food. You're trying to create your own BBQ style while still
making it Kosher and lecker.

Any of these should meet Orthodox Kosher requirements, if you buy Kosher
ingredients:

Cuch's Corned Beef & Pastrami (most highly recommended)

How do I make my own corned beef?

For best results, use trimmed briskets.

Start with a curing brine. This recipe makes enough
for 25 lbs of meat.

5 quarts ice water (about 38-40F)
8 oz. salt
3 oz. Prague Powder #1
3 oz. powdered dextrose

Spray pump the briskets to about 12-15% of their original weight. After
pumping, the briskets are packed in a vat, and sprinkled with whole
pickling spice. If more than one brisket is done at a time, pack them
flesh to flesh with the fat sides out. Add enough brine to cover and
allow to cure for 3-4 days at 38-40F. The meat is then ready to use (but
still requires cooking).

What is pastrami and how do I make my own?

For best results, use trimmed briskets.

Start with a curing brine. This recipe makes enough
for 25 lbs of meat.

5 quarts ice water (about 38-40F)
8 oz. salt
5 oz. Prague Powder #1
5 oz. powdered dextrose
1 Tb garlic juice

Prepare and cure as for corned beef. After curing, remove from brine and
rub liberally with cracked black pepper and coriander seeds.

Smoke at 140F until the meat is dry and then increase smoker temperature to
200-220F and hold until internal temperature of meat reaches 170-180F.

Chill overnight before using. This meat is fully cooked.

*******************************

Beef Brisket by Rev Belly
I think that beef brisket belongs to Texas like peanuts to Georgia and
pulled pork to North Carolina. But did you know, 'till about forty years
ago brisket was a worthless cut of meat that most folks would just discard
or grind into hamburger meat? Down in the hill country of Texas, ol'
brother Wolf was buying all the brisket he could get to make his chili
with. Then about 1950 two German brothers who had a meat market began
cooking BBQ in their market to use up left over meat. One got the idea to
smoke a brisket as he was smoking sausage one weekend. He left it all
weekend in his smokehouse and on Monday as they were serving their que,
pork, sausage & chicken, he cut a slice & put on each lunch.. Everyone
began telling him how good and tender it was. With that they began to cook
beef brisket for BBQ. So Texas owes the two German meat market brothers
from the hills of Texas for our Beef Brisket BBQ. Now_a_days, like lots of
things, the briskets of today are so much improved over time. The brisket
of old time was over half fat, but with the better cows of these days we
get lots better beef brisket. Still, the only way to make them good &
tender is good, slow cooking over hardwood smoke. Here's the way this ol'
Texan tries to cook good beef brisket.

Cooking Beef Brisket

1) Fat and marbling: Choose a brisket which has most of the fat down in the
meat and not all fat on the outside. You do need a layer of fat on the
outside too. Fat inside the meat will help keep it moist, so you still need
some fat both on inside & outside, But remember selecting a good brisket is
half the technique of good Que.

2) Size: A real good size is a brisket from 6 to 10 pounds, big or small
will be more of a personal choice. Just remember that slow cooking for 1
1/2 to 2 hours per pound is a pretty fair time table for cooking a brisket
at 225 dez (degrees F.)

3) Seasoning: There are as many ideas on the best way to season a brisket
as there are brisket cooks. No two will do the same and very few will do it
the same way two times in a row: You can Marinate, dry rub or both; or
sprinkle it with spices; or do all three. I, myself do a little of it all.

3A) Marinate: May be a store bought marinade or maybe your own. I use a mix
of Beer, Dr. Waco (similar to Dr. Pepper) and Willingham's marinade & let
marinate overnight. Dry it off next morning & let it set for about half
hour.

3B) Dry Rub: I use a mix of Garlic power, black pepper, salt, cumin, red
pepper & a little brown sugar. There are lots of good dry rub out there on
the market. Try them.

4) Fi It don't make a big difference what or how you are cooking as long
as you have a good low long_time steady heat; may it be wood, electric or
gas. I, my_self, have for the last twenty_five years used a wood fire in
everything from a barrel, to a washpot, to a high dollar pit. I still say
you can cook as good of que in anything as long as you watch your fire.
What you want is a good stead low fire with a temperature of 200 to 225
dez.

5) Cooking: Well, I have found that I do better with my brisket if I cook
it about an hour per pound [Nick's note: go for about 190°F internal -
practice, practice, practice] on a good low fire of hardwood and then wrap
it in foil and put it in a dry ice chest for up to eight hours. If I slow
cook my brisket for 18 to 20 hours, they are always too dry for me. But
remember, any ol' boy can be like the blind dog an find a better way to do
it. Good smoke will have a sweet flavor & that's what you want; not a
bitter flavor. You will get a (smoke) ring of 1/32 to 1/2 inch most time.
The smoke ring is the result of a chemical reaction between smoke & Air
(nitrogen). This don't make a big different in the taste of your brisket
but do make a better looking brisket, different seasoning will make a
difference in the size of your ring.

6) Presentation: Last, but not to be overlooked, is the presentation of
your brisket. I don't care if it is just for your wife & kids or your
mother_in_law or your boss or if you are in a million dollar cook_off, A
brisket that is half bad, will be come extra good if it is sliced and
presented right. Always slice your brisket across the grain of the meat
(start on a corner of the flat part). This is very important as it makes it
a more palatable & tender slice of meat. Remember, a good BBQ brisket don't
need a sauce poured over it, serve it on the side.
Adios: Now that's way we do it up the Paluxy River in the hills of Texas.
Think I'll cook some BBQ: Beef that is. Billy W (Belly) Maynard

**************************

Prime Rib Recipe
Ingredients:
- 4 lb Prime Rib Roast
- Kosher Salt - 3 Tbsp
- Granulated Garlic - 1 Tbsp
- Sugar - 1 Tbsp
- Black Pepper - 1 Tbsp
- Onion Power - 1 Tbsp
Instructions:
Roasting - Per 4 lb Roast
1. Moderately rub all of roast with combined seasoning. Season Rib Roast
moderately on all sides and ends. 2. Place Rib Roast fat side up, in a 2"
tall roasting pan. 3. Smoke at 325 degrees - Probe with calibrated
Thermometer: ! Rare 135 to 140 degrees, approximately 2.0 hours
! Med Rare 140 to 145 degrees, approximately 2.5 hours
! Medium - 155 to 160 degrees, approximately 3.0 hours
! Well - above 170 degrees, approximately 3.25 hours
4. Once cooked, let stand for 10 minutes before carving.
5. Keep juices for Au Jus. For home use you can purchase Lawry's Beef au
Jus in almost any super market. Follow directions on pouch adding your own
meat dripping to Au Jus.

******************************************

Mushroom Stuffed Eye of Round Roast

2 to 2½ lb. eye of round roast, butterflied*

Marinade

½ cup red wine
2 teaspoons beef bouillon
2 cups water

Stuffing:

1 Tbs. EVOO
2 to 8 cloves garlic, minced
½ cup minced onion
8 oz. sliced mushrooms
½ cup red wine
¼ cup minced fresh parsley
2 slices bread, torn into small pieces

Place roast in a zipper locking plastic bag. Combine the marinade
ingredients and pour over meat. Close bag and marinate 6-24 hours in the
refrigerator, turning occasionally.

Saute garlic, onions and mushrooms in EVOO over medium heat until onions
are transparent, about 5 minutes. Add wine and simmer until well reduced.
You want a little more moisture than will be absorbed by the bread. Remove
from heat and add parsley and bread.

Remove meat from marinade; pat dry. Spread stuffing evenly over meat. Roll
into a cylinder lengthwise and tie with string. Place on a rack in the
smoker and cook at 350E F for about 40-60 minutes (20 minutes per pound).
Remove from oven; allow meat to rest for 10-15 minutes before carving.

*Butterfly roast by measuring in ¼ of the way on the left side on the long
part of the roast and slice the roast leaving about ½ inch from the top to
the bottom down the length of the roast intact. Repeat the procedure ¼ of
the way in on the right side. Turn the meat over and follow the same
procedure on the other side. Flatten out both sides of the meat with a meat
mallet until fairly smooth.

Total preparation time: 1½ hours Serves 6-8

That should at least give you some ideas.

18

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
~Semper Fi~

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:12:13 GMT, "Craig Winchell"
wrote:

Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with the
idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my problem: I'm
an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue, so I don't know what
it's supposed to be like.

Do a Google Groups search in AFB for "kosher -salt" (without the
quotes). You'll find more recipes, suggestions, tips, and techniques.
The "-salt" will enable you to omit from your search most of the
discussions about kosher salt.

--
The mark of a good writer is the ability to use the verbiage those
reading your comments might readily understand without any
misperception and not use language that might obscure the intended
meaning and might even depend on the context it is used so as to not
obfuscate the true and exact meaning you are attempting to convey.
--Mark Ferguson lectures NANAE on how to write goodly.

Steve Wertz wrote:
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 23:08:06 -0600, DougW wrote:

Google came up with this. http://www.kosherbbq.com/

From the website:

STEP THREE:
Spray inside of the CrockPotT type cooker with cooking spray.
Preheat the CrockPotT type cooker on high for ½ hour covered.

I didn't say it was a good link.

--
DougW

Craig Winchell wrote:
Since I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher animals- beef,
lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and bison.
I would think chicken and turkey would also be options. And both are
marvelous barbecued, although some would argue they are smoked rather
than barbecued. Fish are also an option, and a nice smoked salmon is so
good it makes your toes curl.
And there are no kosher restaurants I can go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Hmmm. Not knowing where you are, it's hard to make restaurant
recommendations. And eating decent Q that someone else made can be
instructive. One of my favorite BBQ joints in Austin many, many moons
ago was owned and operated by a Jew. I don't know if he kept Kosher,
though he did keep the holidays and he didn't serve pork, which is
suggestive but not conclusive. He had the best barbecued chicken I have
ever sunk my teeth into. But, ask around, if there is barbecue in your
area, perhaps there is a Kosher barbecue joint in the area as well.

Mike


--
....The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world...

Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Try this...
buy a roast of any kind, fair sized.
get a bottle or two of your favorite BBQ sauce and empty it into a pot.
Add an equal amount of water. Bring to a boil and turn down to simmer
Trim the fat off and slice the roast across the grain into 1/8 inch
thick slices. put them into the sauce, cover and cook for 3-4 hours.
Stir frequently. During the last hour the meat will tend to stick.
Stir more frequently. When done you can cut the meat with a toothpick.
Also works great with sausage, chicken, etc. Any meat.
serve with bread or rolls, beans, jalapeno peppers, corn on the cob.
goes well over thick bread.

Craig Winchell wrote:
Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with the
idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my problem: I'm
an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue, so I don't know what
it's supposed to be like. All I know is that there was nothing compelling
about my first attempt. I know, however, that this must be because mine was
not what it's supposed to be. Not that it wasn't good, mind you, it just
wasn't addictive in the way that barbecue theoretically should be. Since
I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher animals- beef,
lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and bison. So I'm
embarking upon a journey here, to create memorable BBQ, and I need to know
what it's supposed to be. And there are no kosher restaurants I can go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Craig