On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:48:52 GMT, Glenn wrote:

Try this...
buy a roast of any kind, fair sized.
get a bottle or two of your favorite BBQ sauce and empty it into a pot.
Add an equal amount of water. Bring to a boil and turn down to simmer
Trim the fat off and slice the roast across the grain into 1/8 inch
thick slices. put them into the sauce, cover and cook for 3-4 hours.
Stir frequently. During the last hour the meat will tend to stick.
Stir more frequently. When done you can cut the meat with a toothpick.
Also works great with sausage, chicken, etc. Any meat.
serve with bread or rolls, beans, jalapeno peppers, corn on the cob.
goes well over thick bread.

Dear Top-Posting Full-Quoter:

I believe the original poster was inquiring about suggestions for
making barbecue.

Go Here http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/ and type in brisket in the
search part on the upper right of the page.

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"Mike Avery" wrote in message
news:mailman.13.1165508339.29438.alt.food.barbecue @mail.otherwhen.com...
Craig Winchell wrote:
Since I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher
animals- beef, lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and
bison.
I would think chicken and turkey would also be options. And both are
marvelous barbecued, although some would argue they are smoked rather than
barbecued. Fish are also an option, and a nice smoked salmon is so good
it makes your toes curl.
And there are no kosher restaurants I can go to to find out. Any advice
or words of encouragement?

Hmmm. Not knowing where you are, it's hard to make restaurant
recommendations. And eating decent Q that someone else made can be
instructive. One of my favorite BBQ joints in Austin many, many moons ago
was owned and operated by a Jew. I don't know if he kept Kosher, though
he did keep the holidays and he didn't serve pork, which is suggestive but
not conclusive. He had the best barbecued chicken I have ever sunk my
teeth into. But, ask around, if there is barbecue in your area, perhaps
there is a Kosher barbecue joint in the area as well.

Hi. Yes, chicken, turkey, ducks and geese are all fair game. No, there are
no kosher barbecue joints in the US at this time. There was one in Houston,
but it closed a few years ago. It wasn't "compelling" stuff either. Salmon
and other fish are a possibility, I suppose. I enjoy both alder-smoked and
lox-types. However, there are already very good examples of both of those
available at very good prices.

Craig


Mike


--
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"Glenn" wrote in message
t...
Try this...
buy a roast of any kind, fair sized.
get a bottle or two of your favorite BBQ sauce and empty it into a pot.
Add an equal amount of water. Bring to a boil and turn down to simmer
Trim the fat off and slice the roast across the grain into 1/8 inch thick
slices. put them into the sauce, cover and cook for 3-4 hours.
Stir frequently. During the last hour the meat will tend to stick.
Stir more frequently. When done you can cut the meat with a toothpick.
Also works great with sausage, chicken, etc. Any meat.
serve with bread or rolls, beans, jalapeno peppers, corn on the cob.
goes well over thick bread.

Hi Glenn:

I'm not interested in boiling and braising and pot-roasting as methods of
tenderizing and flavoring meat. I already do that. I'm interested in
smoking meat to cook and tenderize it, but in a manner that makes it
downright addictive. My first attempt was better than simply edible, but
nowhere near addictive.

Craig

Craig Winchell wrote:
Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with the
idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my problem:
I'm an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue, so I don't know
what it's supposed to be like. All I know is that there was nothing
compelling about my first attempt. I know, however, that this must be
because mine was not what it's supposed to be. Not that it wasn't good,
mind you, it just wasn't addictive in the way that barbecue theoretically
should be. Since I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from
kosher animals- beef, lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison
and bison. So I'm embarking upon a journey here, to create memorable
BBQ, and I need to know what it's supposed to be. And there are no
kosher restaurants I can go to to find out. Any advice or words of
encouragement?

Craig

Craig Winchell wrote:
Hi Glenn:

I'm not interested in boiling and braising and pot-roasting as methods of
tenderizing and flavoring meat. I already do that. I'm interested in
smoking meat to cook and tenderize it, but in a manner that makes it
downright addictive. My first attempt was better than simply edible, but
nowhere near addictive.

Craig

Phew... that was close. ;-)

I didn't catch what kind/style of smoker that you have but I
guess that doesn't matter much at this point.

I do mine at around 250dF. Don't use briquettes. Use lump
charcoal such as Royal Oak, BGE, etc. Pick out what you
want to cook. Ribs are a good starting point. Take the
membrane off (my opinion and this can start
mega-discussions). Season with your choice of seasonings. We
just like S&P but there are a million different recipes out
there for various rubs. That's really personal preference of
what you like. If you rub, apply the rub, rap in plastic
wrap and toss it into the fridge for overnight if possible.

It's very important to remove the meat from the fridge and
let it come to room temperature before putting it on the
smoker. Fire up the smoker and get it to temperature as
measured by a thermometer at the grate level. I use a Taylor
digital therm. with remote unit. When you put the ribs on,
bone side down, leave the lid on. Resist the urge to keep
looking at them.

Make sure the unit stays at 250dF or so. Just let 'em go at
that point for around 3-3 1/2 hours. That'd be about the
first point that I'd check them. They're done when you pick
up a rack and if you bend it, it breaks.

Some people put sauce (again a source of mega discussion) on
them for the last 1/2 hour or so, some don't (we don't).
Again, highly personal decision.

When they're done, I serve a 1/2 per person and have our
favorite sauce on the side for those who want it.

Now, brisket and cuts like that are cooked by basically the
same method only they are done by temperature of the meat.

Again, measure the pit temperature at grate level ( I use
around 250dF here too, maybe a little higher) but you also
need a thermometer into the center of the meat. In the case
of brisket, it needs to get to an internal temperature of
185-190dF in the unit and then rested when it comes off.
These will take quite a while to do, 12-16 hours depending
on the size. If doing these, you'll probably hit a point
where you think that the temperature isn't raising. Don't
freak, it will but they hit "plateaus" for a while.

As for the taste, that's why there are so many different
(everyone has their own) ways to flavor the meats with
different herbs and spices. It takes some experimentation to
find out what your particular tastes are.

Good luck and happy eating.


--
Steve

Hi Craig, try http://www.jeffsgourmet.com/ Jeff's Gourmet
Sausages, he was just featured on the Food Network for doing BBQ
Brisket for Channuka, said his kosher sausage business was an outgrowth
of his interest in BBQ.


Craig Winchell wrote:... And there are no kosher restaurants I can go
to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Craig

"Steve Calvin" wrote
It's very important to remove the meat from the fridge and
let it come to room temperature before putting it on the
smoker.

That's a matter of opinion. And it's *not* mine.
I put cold meat directly in the smoker. Besides other advantages, you get a
better smoke ring with colder meat.
Letting the meat come to room temperature also increases the time that the
meat is in the "danger zone" that is from 40 to 140 F. degrees.

BOB

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:52:12 -0500, Steve Calvin
wrote:

I do mine at around 250dF. Don't use briquettes. Use lump
charcoal such as Royal Oak, BGE, etc. Pick out what you
want to cook. Ribs are a good starting point. Take the
membrane off (my opinion and this can start
mega-discussions).

Steve, I think you missed a key point:

Craig's an orthodox Jew. So pig is right out.
(more for the rest of us!)
Pork just isn't Kosher. Unlucky for them.

-denny-
--

The test of courage comes when we are in the minority.
The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Craig, try http://www.jeffsgourmet.com/ Jeff's Gourmet
Sausages, he was just featured on the Food Network for doing BBQ
Brisket for Channuka, said his kosher sausage business was an outgrowth
of his interest in BBQ.

Gee, I know Jeff, though he's not a personal friend, just an acquaintance
because he used to buy my wine. I'll ask him. I had no idea he was doing
BBQ brisket, since it's not on his menu. Hot links aren't either. Veal
brats are, though. So he's into BBQ too? I see the makings of a long
friendship developing here, as well as discounted sausages (grin).

Craig Winchell



Craig Winchell wrote:... And there are no kosher restaurants I can go
to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Craig

Calvin Trillan wrote that the Jopliner Rebbe has issued a dispensation
allowing Jews to eat BBQ pork in Kansas City - it's just too good to
forego.

Traditional BBQ works best on certainly cuts - fatty and tough ones.
Try these:

- beef ribs - season with salt and pepper and smoke at 220-250* until
you can pull the ribs apart easily with your finger tips; probably 4-5
hrs.

- brisket - get a packer cut with all the fat on. Slather with
mustard, season, and smoke at 220-250* under the the flat is tender
(jab it with a fork), Make sure that you don't use a trimmed flat, you
need the fat. Slice _across_ the grain (and the grain will change
between the flat and the point). Plan on smoking for about 1 1/2 hrs
per lb, but start checking after 1 hr/lb or so.

- lamb ribs/breast of lamb - these can be pretty cheap compared to
other cuts. Season and smoke at the usual temp until tender. Plan on
3-4 hours for lamb ribs. These are good marinated in red wine with
lots of garlic before smoking

- kosher poultry has already been brined. Spatchcock, season (easy on
the salt) and smoke at the usual temp until done, usually about 2 hrs.

- Cook or reheat beef sausages while you're smoking something else

- See http://www.3men.com/threemen1.htm for some nice hints on
hot-smoking fish


On Dec 6, 8:12 pm, "Craig Winchell" wrote:
Hi. I just bought a smoker, and smoked my first piece of meat, with the
idea that eventually I'll be making great BBQ beef. Here's my problem: I'm
an orthodox Jew, and have never tasted real barbecue, so I don't know what
it's supposed to be like. All I know is that there was nothing compelling
about my first attempt. I know, however, that this must be because mine was
not what it's supposed to be. Not that it wasn't good, mind you, it just
wasn't addictive in the way that barbecue theoretically should be. Since
I'm an orthodox Jew, I'm limited to kosher meat from kosher animals- beef,
lamb or sheep, goat, and if I can find it, venison and bison. So I'm
embarking upon a journey here, to create memorable BBQ, and I need to know
what it's supposed to be. And there are no kosher restaurants I can go to
to find out. Any advice or words of encouragement?

Craig

Denny Wheeler wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:52:12 -0500, Steve Calvin
wrote:

I do mine at around 250dF. Don't use briquettes. Use lump
charcoal such as Royal Oak, BGE, etc. Pick out what you
want to cook. Ribs are a good starting point. Take the
membrane off (my opinion and this can start
mega-discussions).

Steve, I think you missed a key point:

Craig's an orthodox Jew. So pig is right out.
(more for the rest of us!)
Pork just isn't Kosher. Unlucky for them.

-denny-
oops, my mistake. I do beef ribs the same way.

And brisket is beef.

--
Steve

On 7-Dec-2006, Steve Calvin wrote:

Craig Winchell wrote:
Hi Glenn:

I'm not interested in boiling and braising and pot-roasting as methods
of
tenderizing and flavoring meat. I already do that. I'm interested in
smoking meat to cook and tenderize it, but in a manner that makes it
downright addictive. My first attempt was better than simply edible,
but
nowhere near addictive.

Craig

Phew... that was close. ;-)

I didn't catch what kind/style of smoker that you have but I
guess that doesn't matter much at this point.


snip



Good luck and happy eating.


--
Steve

Nice post Steve. Maybe that's because I agree with everything
you said. A later post refutes what you said about letting the
meat coming to room temperature. It's true you can get better
smoke penetration by smoking cold meat. While I like some
smoke flavor, I'm not spending all my time and effort to smell
and eat smoke. I agree with the founding fathers of BBQ that
did their level best to minimize the effect of smoke on the final
product. Well, admittedly, I do use some lumps of wood while
I'm cooking. But, I don't cook to maximize smoke flavor.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:08:23 -0500, Steve Calvin
wrote:

I do beef ribs the same way.

Question: do beef ribs have that membrane?
More questions re beef ribs--I've never cooked 'em, nor ever eaten
'em. Have I missed a treat?

-denny-
--

The test of courage comes when we are in the minority.
The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority.

EMOVETHIS wrote:
wrote:

I do beef ribs the same way.

Question: do beef ribs have that membrane?
More questions re beef ribs--I've never cooked 'em, nor ever eaten
'em. Have I missed a treat?

Only this, which I've made several times:

Beef Ribs, Bourbon-Glazed, Smoked

Rub

1/3 cup black pepper, ground
¼ cup paprika
2 tbs sugar
1 tbs salt
2 tbs chili powder
2 tsp garlic powder
2 tsp onion powder

9 lbs of thick, meaty, beef ribs (original recipe was for 3 racks of pork
spareribs).

Bourbon Mop (Optional)

¾ cup Bourbon
¾ cup cider vinegar
½ cup water

'Bour-BQ' Sauce

¼ cup butter
¼ cup oil (preferably canola or corn)
2 medium onions, minced
¾ cup Bourbon
2/3 cup ketchup
½ cup cider vinegar
½ cup fresh orange juice
½ cup pure Vermont maple syrup
1/3 cup dark unsulphered molasses
2 tbs Worcestershire sauce
½ tsp black pepper, fresh ground
½ tsp salt

The night before, mix up the rub and apply ½ of it evenly over the ribs.
Put them in a plastic bag in the 'fridge overnight.

The next morning, take them out, pat them down with the remaining rub and
let them come to room temperature while you get the smoker up to 200 -
220° F and mix up the mop, about 30 to 45 minutes. Put the mop on low heat
to warm up.

Put the ribs in the smoker. They're gonna cook around 4 hours. Turn and mop
'em after 1 ½ and 3 hours. While they're smokin', prepare the 'Bour-BQ'
sauce in a large saucepan. Melt the butter with the oil over medium heat.
Add the onions and sauté 'til they begin to turn golden, maybe 5 minutes.
Add the remaining ingredients, reduce the heat to low and cook until the
mixtures thickens, about 40 minutes, stirring frequently.

Brush the ribs with the sauce a couple of times in the last 45 minutes of
cooking. Return the remaining sauce to the stove and simmer 15 to 20
minutes 'til it's reduced by 1/3 and gooey and sticky.

When the ribs are ready, a fork will easily enter the meat. Serve with the
reduced sauce on the side.

Accompaniments —

Wilted salad

Glazed bacon

6 slices bacon, preferably thick & smoky
1½ tbs honey or maple syrup
1½ tbs prepared mustard
½ tsp cider vinegar

Bacon vinaigrette dressing

½ cup rendered bacon fat plus EVOO
3 garlic clove, minced
3 tbs cider vinegar
1 tbs honey or maple syrup
salt & fresh-ground black pepper to taste

10 to 12 cups torn leaf lettuce (2 to 3 Romaines)

Preheat oven to 325° F.
Arrange the bacon in a single layer on a baking sheet with sides. Bake for
10 minutes. Pour off and reserve all rendered fat.

In a small bowl, mix the honey or maple syrup, mustard and vinegar. Spread
½ the mixture over the bacon and bake for 7 to 8 minutes. Turn the bacon
over and spread it with the remaining syrup mixture. Bake another 6 to 7
minutes or until medium brown and crispy. Watch carefully for the last few
minutes to avoid burning. Cool briefly, then chop or crumble.

Warm the bacon fat and oil mixture over medium heat in a small skillet. Add
the garlic and sauté it briefly. Add the remaining dressing ingredients and
heat, stirring, 'til the honey dissolves.

Place the greens in a salad bowl and pour the warm dressing over them. Toss
lightly. Sprinkle the bacon over the salad and serve hot or at room
temperature.

Batter-fried mushrooms

2 cups all-purpose flour
1 tablespoon salt
2 teaspoons garlic powder
1 teaspoon baking powder
1 pint beer
oil -- for deep-frying, olive, canola, peanut, safflower, corn, soy or
vegetable 36 to 48 medium whole mushrooms

Combine flour, salt, garlic powder, and baking powder in medium bowl. Add
beer and whisk until smooth. Cover and chill 30 minutes. Whisk again, let
stand in refrigerator until ready to use. Batter can be prepared 1 day
ahead if desired. Heat oil to 375 F. Holding stem, dip each mushroom into
batter, covering cap completely. Fry in small batches until golden brown.
Allow oil to return to 375 F before adding next batch. Drain. They'll be
eaten as fast as you can cook 'em!

Original Recipes from “Smoke & Spice”, by Cheryl & Bill Jamison

SOURDOUGH CORN BREAD

1 cup sourdough starter
2 ½ cups yellow corn meal
1 ½ cups evaporated milk
2 eggs, beaten
1 tbs sugar
¼ cup melted butter
½ tsp salt
1 tsp baking soda
1 tsp baking powder

Mix starter, corn mean, evaporated milk, eggs and sugar in a large bowl.
Stir in the melted butter, salt and soda. Turn into a 10" greased frying
pan, cover lightly and let rest in a warm place for 1/2 hour, then bake in
hot oven (450F) for 25-30 minutes. Serve hot with honey.

I've made this menu a couple of times for my family with pork spareribs and
once for me and a few beer buddies, using beef ribs. In the latter case, I
also pick up a case of a good beer to keep 'em quiet while they wait. I
never seem to make enough! All meats from the nearby Argentine meat market.

Shopping list:

9 lbs of Beef Ribs, thick & meaty.

1/3 cup black pepper, ground
¼ cup paprika
3 tbs sugar
3 tbs salt
2 tbs chili powder
2 tbs garlic powder
2 tsp onion powder
1 ½ cup Bourbon
1 ½ cup cider vinegar
½ cup butter
½ cup oil (EVOO)
2 medium onions, minced
2/3 cup ketchup
½ cup fresh orange juice
½ cup pure Vermont maple syrup
1/3 cup dark unsulphered molasses
2 tbs Worcestershire sauce
6 slices bacon, preferably thick & smoky
3 tbs honey
2 tbs prepared yellow mustard
3 garlic clove, minced
3 leaf lettuce
2 cups all-purpose flour
2 teaspoon baking powder
1 pint can or bottle beer
olive oil, any – for deep-frying
36 to 48 medium whole mushrooms
1 cup sourdough starter
2½ cups yellow cornmeal
1½ cups evaporated milk
2 eggs, beaten
1 tsp baking soda

1 case good beer to keep the chef happy!

What did I forget?

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
~Semper Fi~

On 8-Dec-2006, wrote:

EMOVETHIS wrote:
wrote:

I do beef ribs the same way.

Question: do beef ribs have that membrane?
More questions re beef ribs--I've never cooked 'em, nor ever eaten
'em. Have I missed a treat?

Only this, which I've made several times:

Beef Ribs, Bourbon-Glazed, Smoked

snipped original recipe

Snipped and saved. Thanks Nick.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)