"Dave Bell" wrote in message
news
Vox Humana wrote:
"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:20060119180045.1a18408b@wafer...

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:15:40 -0500
"reqluq" wrote:


Very informative though I doubt a malaysian in he countryside is gonna
take so much time to put in the fridge take out and wait half hour to
an
hour etc. There must be an easier/simpler way


Yes, they probably just laminate as best they can and toss it around
the
wok in some hot oil.

Are you trying to duplicate an item that you ate on the malaysian
countryside, possibly supplied by someone who doesn't have access to a
pastry chef's favorite tools?

Every cook does the best they can with the resources that are
available.
You can get a far superior product if you work with refrigeration as
described by Vox, but you don't *have to do that to get a fried pastry
that
is flaky.

There are elements of technique for laminating without the benefit of
refrigeration - for example you can start with a relatively dry dough
but
let it hydrate for a half an hour or more before working it, and then
dusting lightly with flour before each fold. But the results aren't as
good
as going all-out with an actively cooled stone slab and resting in the
sub-zero between steps.


The instructions at the link say that you can use refrigerated puff
pastry
dough from the supermarket. The instructions for the dough at the link
wouldn't even make a decent pie pastry let alone something that
resemples
puff pastry. There is nothing wrong with that except it seems very
strange
that these two very different produts would be equated. Julia Child has
instructions for "blizt" puff pastry. It is made with large chunks of
butter and the dough gets a few turns, but is not refrigerated. I have
made
this for the top of pot pies and for a quick base for a rustic tart. I
think it would be a good alternative to the recipe at the link.

This one isn't attributed to Julia, but sounds like what you were
describing:

Blitz Puff Pastry

* 1 pound bread flour
* 1 pound butter, cut in cubes
* 1 1/4 tsp. salt
* 8 oz. cold water

Mix all ingredients together and pat out somewhat flat. Turn in left and
right side. Roll the pastry out to make somewhat smooth. Fold opposite
sides in and roll again. Cut to desired pastry shape. Fill and bake at
350 degrees until golden brown.

yes. That's it. I doubt that Julia invented it, buy she has it in her
books.

"Dave Bell" wrote in message
om...
to Julia, but sounds like what you were

Mix how, Dave? Cut butter into flour/salt first, then add water? Bread
flour for pastry? Very curious...


There are pictures and instructions he
http://www.taunton.com/finecooking/pages/c00012.asp

On Fri 20 Jan 2006 06:38:56a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Bob (this
one)?

Dave Bell wrote:
Wayne Boatwright wrote:

On Thu 19 Jan 2006 08:33:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
Dave Bell?

Vox Humana wrote:

The instructions at the link say that you can use refrigerated
puff pastry dough from the supermarket. The instructions for
the dough at the link wouldn't even make a decent pie pastry
let alone something that resemples puff pastry. There is
nothing wrong with that except it seems very strange that these
two very different produts would be equated. Julia Child has
instructions for "blitz" puff pastry. It is made with large
chunks of butter and the dough gets a few turns, but is not
refrigerated. I have made this for the top of pot pies and for
a quick base for a rustic tart. I think it would be a good
alternative to the recipe at the link.


This one isn't attributed to Julia, but sounds like what you were
describing:

Blitz Puff Pastry

* 1 pound bread flour * 1 pound butter, cut in cubes * 1 1/4
tsp. salt * 8 oz. cold water

Mix all ingredients together and pat out somewhat flat. Turn in
left and right side. Roll the pastry out to make somewhat smooth.
Fold opposite sides in and roll again. Cut to desired pastry shape.
Fill and bake at 350 degrees until golden brown.

Mix how, Dave? Cut butter into flour/salt first, then add water?
Bread flour for pastry? Very curious...

Good questions, Wayne! But you see the entire text of the recipe, as
I found it...

I posted some notes in rec.food.cooking about a way to make a pie crust
this way with further comment about making a rough puff paste. Here it
is, edited...

Pie crust (double-crust 9-inch pie) - 3/4 cup (1 1/2 sticks)
butter/shortening, 8 ounces (2 cups) flour, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon
sugar, 2 ounces (1/4 cup) water.

Rough puff paste - a pound of butter (4 sticks), 15 ounces of flour (4
1/4+/- cups and 1/2 cup more for rolling it out), a teaspoon salt and a
cup of water.

The usual direction for making pie crust is to cut the shortening into
the flour. That results in small flakes or mealiness (still acceptable)
depending on the fat used and the method of dispersal.

Rather than cutting the fat into the flour (and salt, sugar or whatever
else you put into it), I've been cutting the (very cold) fat into small
cubes (1/4 to 3/8 inch), tossing it with the (very cold) flour to coat
and keep separated, adding a little ice water, and then dumping the
whole thing on the counter to roll rather than to mix as usual.

The point in making a crust is to get little bits of fat scattered
throughout the flour matrix for the distinctive texture of pie crust.
Traditional approaches have included using a pastry blender, two knives,
or fingers to break the fat into smaller pieces. Here's a new way...

Toss the fat cubes in the combined dry ingredients to coat and stir
through. Add water. Then dump the whole thing out onto a counter where
you can roll it out. Roll over the pile of stuff heavily. It'll still be
powdery. Roll a few times, then slide a pastry scraper under the edges
and fold it into a small pile. Roll again and scrape up again. The cubes
of fat are being flattened and spread through the flour. Scraping and
folding keeps the fat in sheets. Each rolling will make it all become
more cohesive. After several rollings, scrapings and foldings, you'll
have a crust with the fat dispersed in larger sheets than usual. The
finished crust will be flaky in a different way than usual. The flakes
are larger. And the crust, IME, is somewhat more waterproof.

It handles easily after the few rollings. I chill it before lining pans
with it. Gather it into a flat disk, wrap with plastic and chill for 1/2
hour. Then finish as usual. I usually roll it thicker than traditional
crusts - like 1/4 inch or so. It eats very nicely, absorbs juices
without getting soggy.

Puff paste (both classic and rough) uses butter which has
20% water in it. When it bakes, the water flashes over to steam and
causes the puffing by forcing layers apart.

Puff pastry contains at least as much as (or, more often, more butter)
than flour. When making a rough puff paste, you add more water than for
this sort of pie crust. And when you roll it, you do turns like with
classic puff paste. With this pie crust, you spread it (it will stick to
the surface) and scrape it back up onto itself and reroll. There's no
effort to make layers as in puff paste. No turns, as such.

Pie crust (double-crust 9-inch pie) - 3/4 cup (1 1/2 sticks)
butter/shortening, 8 ounces (2 cups) flour, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon
sugar, 2 ounces (1/4 cup) water.

Rough puff paste - a pound of butter (4 sticks), 15 ounces of flour (4
1/4+/- cups and 1/2 cup more for rolling it out), a teaspoon salt and a
cup of water.

Pastorio


Thanks for posting this again, Bob. I didn't see it the first time.


--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
__________________________________________________

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

On Fri 20 Jan 2006 07:52:38a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Vox Humana?


"Dave Bell" wrote in message
om...
to Julia, but sounds like what you were

Mix how, Dave? Cut butter into flour/salt first, then add water? Bread
flour for pastry? Very curious...


There are pictures and instructions he
http://www.taunton.com/finecooking/pages/c00012.asp



Thanks, Vox. Saved for reference.

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
__________________________________________________

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.