On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:49:56 -0700, "Dusty"
wrote:

...
To which you replied:
Regarding the potato or grape approach:

With respect, I do not agree with Dusty. Those things can be used to
make good starters, but there is a better way that the approach
usually suggested:
I tried to take pains to show that yes, you can indeed get something that
seems to be "working" or that looks or acts like sourdough. And, it's also
possible to get exactly what you'd hoped for--a good, viable, *and* tasty
culture. But the odds would seem to be against the user; especially a new
user.

Hi Dusty,

My post was intended to convey that the grapes, raisins, potato,
approaches are really only flour and water approaches.

I said that it was best to eat the grapes before making the starter.

I certainly agree with your about Samartha's methods, though, I have
always done as well with wheat, as rye for the base.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Hello Kenneth & all;

"Kenneth" wrote in message
...
....
My post was intended to convey that the grapes, raisins, potato,
approaches are really only flour and water approaches.

I said that it was best to eat the grapes before making the starter.

Ah, ha! Please forgive me, as I didn't get that from your original post.
Now, of course, what you said makes plenty of sense... I think your "...
(don't ask) ..." remark about where those bodily sources of yeast might come
from had me blinded with tears, and doubled up with laughter...(:-o)!

I certainly agree with you about Samartha's methods, though, I have
always done as well with wheat, as rye for the base.
Now that's a new one on me. I've not had very good success using wheat
flour as the starter medium--at least not reliable success. Looks like I'm
gonna hafta revisit that scenario. To be fair, I must admit to only having
found *proper* wheat bread flour recently. Now that I have it, I may well
revisit that method--a hard thing to do when my results have been so
outstanding...

I was so impressed with the apparent ability of Samartha's rye flour
technique to quickly foster luxurious yeast growths that I moved the rye
flour inoculation to before the WW in my Provender recipe (I put it
first--whereas you put it second in the Poilâne recipe you posted).

That all having been said, however, I still prefer to use the starter that
was sent to me by a friend in Ontario. I've compared the results of that
starter with bread made using Samartha's and other methods...and I prefer
the former by a wide, wide margin. The flavor and aroma are just so much
better (that's in *my* ever so humble but probably jaded and overly biased
opinion...).

FWIW; I didn't carefully work with the required timing in the 3-stage rising
yesterday...and today I am the proud owner of a couple of hockey pucks!
big sigh! Looks like it's back to the fermenting board tonight...

Later all,
Dusty
--
Remove STORE to reply
....

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:45:38 -0700, "Dusty"
wrote:

Hello Kenneth & all;

"Kenneth" wrote in message
.. .
...
My post was intended to convey that the grapes, raisins, potato,
approaches are really only flour and water approaches.

I said that it was best to eat the grapes before making the starter.

Ah, ha! Please forgive me, as I didn't get that from your original post.
Now, of course, what you said makes plenty of sense... I think your "...
(don't ask) ..." remark about where those bodily sources of yeast might come
from had me blinded with tears, and doubled up with laughter...(:-o)!

Hi Dusty,

Actually it is the lactobacilli that come from the baker. The yeasts
are in, and on, the grain...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Fred wrote:
My baking book has some formulas for sourdough starters. The one that
appeared to provide the quickest results was a commercial yeast starter.
After the prescribed18 hours at room temperature, the dough smelled like
alcohol but had no sour taste. I left it covered and will look in on it
again on Monday and perhaps throw an apple or potato in with it. Am I being
misled that the starter should be useable after 18 hours? Thanks.

Fred
The Good Gourmet
http://www.thegoodgourmet.com


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Kim