pltrgyst wrote:

No, it renders it not an official Neapolitan pizza. Period. It's just
another EU protected name and concept, like AOCs.

Did you read my reply to Dave Bell? I seem to have managed to reply to
every argument of yours in advance, too.

BTW, there's an awful lot of crap pizza in Naples these days. I'd say NYC is
more consistent, so long as you ignore any Chicago or deep-dish wanna-bes.

Ah, but we are arguing about what is and what isn't pizza, not about its
quality in various locations.

Why is a Chicago or any other deep-dish pizzas wannabes, then? Where do
*you* draw the line and why?

Victor

Roughrider50 wrote:

Actually DiGorno isn't too bad for a frozen pizza. Its the only kind I
buy. Outside of costing a little more than the other frozen pizzas their
pretty close to what we get at pizza parlors here in town.

They are not available here in Germany.

Victor

Alan wrote:

Second, I've had many delicious pizzas make in home
kitchens, and in other places that prepare them in ways
which aren't perfectly traditional, but which are delicious,
well-made, wonderful food!

What makes them pizzas and not some other kind of flatbread (assuming
they are flat, that is)?

Victor

"Victor Sack" wrote in message
.. .
Roughrider50 wrote:

Actually DiGorno isn't too bad for a frozen pizza. Its the only kind I
buy. Outside of costing a little more than the other frozen pizzas their
pretty close to what we get at pizza parlors here in town.

They are not available here in Germany.

Victor
I was stationed in Berlin in the 60's & there was a gesthaus across the
street from my compound that had the best pizza I have ever eaten........Add
to that the best beer I've ever drank, & the bockwurst that's out of this
world, not to mention Kartoffelsalat & Ochsenschwanzsuppe. Those little
shish-ka-bob things make my mouth water just thinking about it. I won't even
mention all the breads & rolls I consumed....mmmm. No Victor you aren't
missing anything )

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:29:58 GMT, "Roughrider50" wrote:

I was stationed in Berlin in the 60's & there was a gesthaus across the
street from my compound that had the best pizza I have ever eaten........Add
to that the best beer I've ever drank, & the bockwurst that's out of this
world, not to mention Kartoffelsalat & Ochsenschwanzsuppe....

I think all those things have improved with age (yours -- and mine). 8

And besides, the best ochsenschwanzsuppe was clearly at der Roter Ochsen in
Heidelberg.

I also remember pop-top bottles of wonderful fresh beer (Weldebrau) magically
appearing on my doorstep every morning.

But I sure don't remember good pizza in Germany. France, yes; Holland, yes;
Italy, yes; but not Germany.

-- Larry (owned the Army's Berlin trains in the '60s, and spent a lot of time
there...)

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:48:52 +0100, (Victor Sack) wrote:

Why is a Chicago or any other deep-dish pizzas wannabes, then? Where do
*you* draw the line and why?

I don't. If it's flatbread, with traditional toppings (tomato sauce, mozzarella
or parmesan cheeses, generally oregano, with or without a variety of other
toppings, then I call it pizza.

I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is mentally
ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming the crust,
I'll have stromboli or lasagna.

But then in my town, we have a hugely popular place that specializes in serving
pasta on top of a pizza crust. Kids and families love it -- go figure.

-- Larry

"pltrgyst" wrote

I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is
mentally
ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming the
crust,
I'll have stromboli or lasagna.

(note to self: pay attention to Larry, he is a wise man)

nancy

pltrgyst wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 23:48:52 +0100, (Victor Sack) wrote:

Why is a Chicago or any other deep-dish pizzas wannabes, then? Where do
*you* draw the line and why?

I don't. If it's flatbread, with traditional toppings (tomato sauce, mozzarella
or parmesan cheeses, generally oregano, with or without a variety of other
toppings, then I call it pizza.

I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is mentally
ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming the crust,
I'll have stromboli or lasagna.

For sure, a quality pizza is determined by a good crust with just a
minimalist topping for flavor.



But then in my town, we have a hugely popular place that specializes in serving
pasta on top of a pizza crust. Kids and families love it -- go figure.

-- Larry

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:05:07 -0500, "Nancy Young" wrote:


"pltrgyst" wrote

I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is
mentally
ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming the
crust,
I'll have stromboli or lasagna.

(note to self: pay attention to Larry, he is a wise man)

nancy

Geez, my wife's name is Nancy (as was my ex-wife's), and neither of them ever
said that...not even on Valentine's Day.

-- Larry

Roughrider50 wrote:

I was stationed in Berlin in the 60's & there was a gesthaus across the
street from my compound that had the best pizza I have ever eaten........Add
to that the best beer I've ever drank, & the bockwurst that's out of this
world, not to mention Kartoffelsalat & Ochsenschwanzsuppe. Those little
shish-ka-bob things make my mouth water just thinking about it. I won't even
mention all the breads & rolls I consumed....mmmm. No Victor you aren't
missing anything )

I like that kind of food, too! As to beer, in Berlin you probably
missed the even better one than you liked - Düsseldorfer Altbier. :-)

BTW, I've just tried some Sauerteigbrot (sourdough bread) produced by
Brot & Butter, a food part of Manufactum, a small kitchen store chain
with a very "yuppy" image. In spite of the image, the bread is very
good indeed, of the heavy, dense, crusty type, made with a mix of rye
and wheat.

On the other hand, real pizza is hard to come by here. :-(

Victor

pltrgyst wrote:

I don't. If it's flatbread, with traditional toppings (tomato sauce,
mozzarella or parmesan cheeses, generally oregano, with or without a
variety of other toppings, then I call it pizza.

Surely not just any flatbread? Shouldn't pizza crust mean something
more specific? After all, the crust is even more important than the
toppings. Surely you wouldn't call lavash bread even with those
toppings pizza? As to toppings, parmesan has never been at all
traditional, even if only because its melting qualities are very poor
indeed. Also, how about pizza al funghi, topped with mushrooms and with
no tomato sauce, no cheese of any kind, and no oregano?

Myself, I would surely define pizza as a certain method, first and
foremost.

I just think that anyone who enjoys deep-dish or Chicago style pizza is
mentally ill. 8 If I want that much tomato sauce and cheese overwhelming
the crust, I'll have stromboli or lasagna.

Which tells me that you don't consider stromboli or lasagna to be a
pizza, either. :-)

But then in my town, we have a hugely popular place that specializes in
serving pasta on top of a pizza crust. Kids and families love it -- go
figure.

Savages!

Victor

Alan wrote:

The reason they are pizzas is that people call them "pizza."

Is it a good idea to follow the example of those people? The same
people also call raw, unformed minced/ground meat either "hamburger or
"sausage", and they also call anyone learning in any kind of educational
institution "students", even if they are just schoolchildren.

As I said many a time in similar cases, this is yet another example of
the general supplanting the particular in the American version of
English. Sooner or later, everything will be called "Alfredo", anyway.

But then, I am also a language snob. :-)

Victor

Why would you say it's a lot of trouble, a simple dough with no exotic
ingredients, overnight cold fermented, then the pizza is baked on a stone in
your oven. Can't get much simpler unless your reheating a frozen pizza
(egad!)

--

Mike S.

Alan wrote in message
news
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:14:08 GMT, "Mikey S."
wrote:

The best pizza dough I have ever used is the simplest, it's based on a
dough
made for baguettes but it also works incredibly well for pizza. It is
called
'PAIN a l'ANCIENNE' and I orignally found it in a book called "the bread
Bakers Apprentice
That's more trouble than I'm willing to go to in my own
kitchen, but I bet it's VERY good pizza!

:-)

Alan Moorman

Alan wrote:

(Victor Sack) wrote:

Alan wrote:

The reason they are pizzas is that people call them "pizza."

Is it a good idea to follow the example of those people? The same
people also call raw, unformed minced/ground meat either "hamburger or
"sausage",

absolutely not true.

What *exactly* is "absolutely not true"?

Hamburger, yes. Sausage, no.
Sausage, as we ALL know is spiced an flavored.

Did I say anything about spices and flavourings, or lack of them?

Besides, what "you ALL" know is not necessarily related to reality. You
do not really mean that no unspiced and unflavoured sausage exists?
What if you stuff unspiced, unseasoned minced meat in casings... won't
it become a sausage by definition? Not that it matters in this case...

You might also want to acquire a good dictionary (I believe I already
told you that). Here, for example, is what the Compact Oxford English
Dictionary (which is based on The OED) says:
*
sausage

*** noun 1 a short tube of raw minced meat encased in a skin, that is
grilled or fried before eating. 2 a tube of seasoned minced meat that is
cooked or preserved and eaten cold in slices. 3 a cylindrical object.

and they also call anyone learning in any kind of educational
institution "students", even if they are just schoolchildren.

The word means that.

Only in America. Did you actually read my post? Did you comprehend it?
These are, by the way, rhetorical questions, so just re-read the
paragraph you quoted below - about the yet another example of the
general supplanting the particular in the American version of English.

Quotation from the same dictionary:

student

*** noun 1 a person studying at a university or other place of higher
education. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a school pupil. 3 before another noun
denoting someone who is studying to enter a particular profession: a
student nurse. 4 a person who takes a particular interest in a subject.

BTW, these are not just British examples, but international-English
ones. International Student Cards are issued only to university or
college students; International Scholar Cards are issued to school
pupils.

As I said many a time in similar cases, this is yet another example of
the general supplanting the particular in the American version of
English. Sooner or later, everything will be called "Alfredo", anyway.

Huh?

You mean you not only lack reading comprehension but also a rudimentary
sense of humour?

But then, I am also a language snob. :-)

Language snot, not snob.

Well, perhaps, both.

I told you already that getting defensive out of ignorance or inability
to appreciate differences in words or concepts does not reflect well on
you.

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:
Alan wrote:

(Victor Sack) wrote:

Alan wrote:

The reason they are pizzas is that people call them "pizza."
Is it a good idea to follow the example of those people? The same
people also call raw, unformed minced/ground meat either "hamburger or
"sausage",
absolutely not true.

What *exactly* is "absolutely not true"?

Hamburger, yes. Sausage, no.
Sausage, as we ALL know is spiced an flavored.

Did I say anything about spices and flavourings, or lack of them?

Besides, what "you ALL" know is not necessarily related to reality. You
do not really mean that no unspiced and unflavoured sausage exists?
What if you stuff unspiced, unseasoned minced meat in casings... won't
it become a sausage by definition? Not that it matters in this case...

You might also want to acquire a good dictionary (I believe I already
told you that). Here, for example, is what the Compact Oxford English
Dictionary (which is based on The OED) says:

sausage

* noun 1 a short tube of raw minced meat encased in a skin, that is
grilled or fried before eating. 2 a tube of seasoned minced meat that is
cooked or preserved and eaten cold in slices. 3 a cylindrical object.

and they also call anyone learning in any kind of educational
institution "students", even if they are just schoolchildren.
The word means that.

Only in America. Did you actually read my post? Did you comprehend it?
These are, by the way, rhetorical questions, so just re-read the
paragraph you quoted below - about the yet another example of the
general supplanting the particular in the American version of English.

Quotation from the same dictionary:

student

* noun 1 a person studying at a university or other place of higher
education. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a school pupil. 3 before another noun
denoting someone who is studying to enter a particular profession: a
student nurse. 4 a person who takes a particular interest in a subject.

BTW, these are not just British examples, but international-English
ones. International Student Cards are issued only to university or
college students; International Scholar Cards are issued to school
pupils.

As I said many a time in similar cases, this is yet another example of
the general supplanting the particular in the American version of
English. Sooner or later, everything will be called "Alfredo", anyway.

Huh?

You mean you not only lack reading comprehension but also a rudimentary
sense of humour?

But then, I am also a language snob. :-)
Language snot, not snob.

Well, perhaps, both.

I told you already that getting defensive out of ignorance or inability
to appreciate differences in words or concepts does not reflect well on
you.

Victor

Relax chaps! It's only a pizza (or sausage or whatever)
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney
www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont
"It's not that I think stupidity should be punishable by death. I just
think we should take the warning labels off of everything and let the
problem take care of itself."