I'm trying to figure out why NYC bagels are so much better than those
in other parts of the country. Anyone have a suggestion about what
kind of flour to use?

Josh

Josh Meyer wrote:

I'm trying to figure out why NYC bagels are so much better than those
in other parts of the country. Anyone have a suggestion about what
kind of flour to use?


High gluten bread flour or the addition of 10% vital gluten to A/P flour.=


If you are not using commercial quantities, check King Arthur Com

But in other parts of the country, they forget to boil the bagels before =

baking too.

--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

Yes, you will need a high gluten flour. Rumor has it the taste/texture from
a New York Bagel is because they are boiled in NY city water.

tgt


"Josh Meyer" wrote in message
om...
I'm trying to figure out why NYC bagels are so much better than those
in other parts of the country. Anyone have a suggestion about what
kind of flour to use?

Josh

Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why NYC bagels are so much better than those
in other parts of the country. Anyone have a suggestion about what
kind of flour to use?

High gluten, unbleached, unbromated flour. I use Knoxbridge and love
it.

There are great bagels to be found in many many places. I've had them
in Florida and in California and lots of other places over the years.
Boiled or steamed, done correctly, they can be great.

The biggest issue is that most people from outside the New York area
don't know a bagel from Wonderbread, so they just buy what's in the
basket. The same holds true for Kaiser rolls, french and italian breads
and lots more.

In many areas, most people buy their "fresh baked bread" from Wal-Mart,
where absolutely everything feels and tastes like a week old hotdog
roll.

As far as the "it's the water" issue, that's just a rumor kicked around
by people who have perhaps tasted good bagels and know nothing else
about them. "Oh yeah, must be the water..., makes sense to me."

Nevermind that the baker adds 50% more yeast for free volume and uses
the cheapest flour available, and that he learned to bake from the
owners nephew who hated working there and now sits in an office cubicle
trying to dart pencils in the ceiling tiles.

"Gee, Mr. Scruggs, these bagels aren't as good as the ones I bought in
New York..."

"Well, I make 'em the same, Bubba, it's jes that the goldang water here
is different. Cain't be hay-elped."

I even once heard of "some great bagel shop in West Palm Beach where
they truck their water in from New York, just to make great bagels."
Sure, and they sell for $1.98 each, right?

Dave

I know that several bagel places around here ("Here" being
Chatham-Summit-Millburn, NJ) which make great bagels use General Mills All
Trumps flour. I assume that you could do the same with just about any bread
flour. If you need a flour like this is commercial quantities, call a local
restaurant supply house or wholesale grocer. A lot of them will allow you
to buy from them is you don't get in the way.

I know that Dawn Foods in Edison, NJ, has a Will Call arrangement. You call
up, tell them what you want and when you want it. They get it ready for
you, you pay for it and load it in your car. I assume that other sources
have similar arrangements. I can buy 50 pounds of All Trumps or Harvest
King for around $12.

Barry

"Josh Meyer" wrote in message
om...
I'm trying to figure out why NYC bagels are so much better than those
in other parts of the country. Anyone have a suggestion about what
kind of flour to use?

Josh

Josh Meyer wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why NYC bagels are so much better than those
in other parts of the country. Anyone have a suggestion about what
kind of flour to use?

Josh

Not difficult to choose. ALWAYS choose a very high gluten flour (or add
gluten to lower gluten flour). I always use WheatMontana, the very
highest gluten available flour (I believe) in the States. Check out
their website for store nearest you. http://www.wheatmontana.com/

--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

"barry" wrote in message
t...
I know that several bagel places around here ("Here" being
Chatham-Summit-Millburn, NJ) which make great bagels use General Mills All
Trumps flour. I assume that you could do the same with just about any
bread
flour. If you need a flour like this is commercial quantities, call a
local
restaurant supply house or wholesale grocer. A lot of them will allow you
to buy from them is you don't get in the way.

I know that Dawn Foods in Edison, NJ, has a Will Call arrangement. You
call
up, tell them what you want and when you want it. They get it ready for
you, you pay for it and load it in your car. I assume that other sources
have similar arrangements. I can buy 50 pounds of All Trumps or Harvest
King for around $12.


Our Costco sells the All Trumps flour and I believe that I have seen it at
Sam's Club also.

Our Costco sells the All Trumps flour and I believe that I have seen it at
Sam's Club also.

I sure wish my Costco sold it. All I can find at our Costco, Hanover, NJ,
is a "Bread flour" that has a gluten/protein of 10-11%.

Barry

"barry" wrote in
:

Our Costco sells the All Trumps flour and I believe that I have seen
it at Sam's Club also.

I sure wish my Costco sold it. All I can find at our Costco, Hanover,
NJ, is a "Bread flour" that has a gluten/protein of 10-11%.

Barry




If you can find All Trumps... this is the best I have found for a great
robust flavor and has protein level of 14%. Puros has a will call ability,
and so does Dawn Foods. Most suppliers are willing to sell to the public
now a days due to the lagging economy. If you can't find a supplier, go to
GM website and ask them for a lead.

http://www.generalmills.com/gmflour/home.asp

Jean Scott

barry wrote:
Our Costco sells the All Trumps flour and I believe that I have seen it at
Sam's Club also.


I sure wish my Costco sold it. All I can find at our Costco, Hanover, NJ,
is a "Bread flour" that has a gluten/protein of 10-11%.

Barry


And probably bleached, too.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:34:16 GMT, "barry"
wrote:

I know that several bagel places around here ("Here" being
Chatham-Summit-Millburn, NJ) which make great bagels use General Mills All
Trumps flour. I assume that you could do the same with just about any bread
flour. If you need a flour like this is commercial quantities, call a local
restaurant supply house or wholesale grocer. A lot of them will allow you
to buy from them is you don't get in the way.

I know that Dawn Foods in Edison, NJ, has a Will Call arrangement. You call
up, tell them what you want and when you want it. They get it ready for
you, you pay for it and load it in your car. I assume that other sources
have similar arrangements. I can buy 50 pounds of All Trumps or Harvest
King for around $12.

Barry

The GM web site lists versions of ALL Trumps, both bromated &
unbromated. It is an interesting page with specs for their bakers'
flours.

http://www.generalmills.com/gmflour/...=ESpring#50111

Boron

I've been using this site for a couple of years now. As far as I know, it's
the only flour web site that lists the spec sheet for a company's flours. A
lot of companies make claims for their flour, but this is the only spec
sheet I've seen.

Barry

The GM web site lists versions of ALL Trumps, both bromated &
unbromated. It is an interesting page with specs for their bakers'
flours.

http://www.generalmills.com/gmflour/...=ESpring#50111

Boron

In article ,
"barry" wrote:

Our Costco sells the All Trumps flour and I believe that I have seen it at
Sam's Club also.

I sure wish my Costco sold it. All I can find at our Costco, Hanover, NJ,
is a "Bread flour" that has a gluten/protein of 10-11%.


That's about the level of protein that the regular King Arthur flour
has. KA sells a Sir Lancelot bread flour that's over 14% gluten, and
they recommend using a heavy duty mixer to knead it so the full gluten
potential is developed.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Return address to the present tense to email me

In article ,
"H. W. Hans Kuntze" wrote:

Josh Meyer wrote:

I'm trying to figure out why NYC bagels are so much better than those
in other parts of the country. Anyone have a suggestion about what
kind of flour to use?


High gluten bread flour or the addition of 10% vital gluten to A/P flour.

If you are not using commercial quantities, check King Arthur Com

But in other parts of the country, they forget to boil the bagels before
baking too.

It's not forgetting, Hans, they don't know to do it. We walked into a
bagel place here in Seattle a few months ago and noticed the bagels
looked a little puffy. When we asked the kid behind the counter whether
the bagels were boiled before baking he looked at us as if we were from
Mars.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Return address to the present tense to email me

On 8 Nov 2003 at 16:30, Cindy Fuller wrote:

In article ,
"H. W. Hans Kuntze" wrote:

But in other parts of the country, they forget to boil the bagels
before baking too.

It's not forgetting, Hans, they don't know to do it. We walked into a
bagel place here in Seattle a few months ago and noticed the bagels
looked a little puffy. When we asked the kid behind the counter
whether the bagels were boiled before baking he looked at us as if we
were from Mars.

No, it's worse than that. They don't want to boil the bagels. Many
people don't like things they have to chew, to struggle to eat. The
found that if they don't boil the bagels, they rise up more, they are
lighter, and they aren't chewy.

Of course, at this point the also aren't really bagels. At least, not
authentic bagels. But they may be more popular bagels.

Mike
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