On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:54 -0700, "Alai" wrote:

I love vietnamese food, especially beef pho and spring rolls are my
favorites.

What are some of you favorite vietnamese food?


One of the most simple and delicious Vietnamese dishes I've ever eaten
is claypot catfish, the sauce for which is nothing more than
carmalized sugar and a little water along with fish sauce. Savory
sweet and heavenly, I pour the pot of bubbling sauce and catfish over
rice and devour.

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:54 -0700, "Alai" wrote:

I love vietnamese food, especially beef pho and spring rolls are my
favorites.

What are some of you favorite vietnamese food?

I enjoy Bun, Vietnamese rice noodle dishes. I frequently get lemongrass
grilled chicken Bun, Bun Ga Nuong. Grilled beef is also excellent.

--
Dan

In article ,
Dan Logcher wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:54 -0700, "Alai" wrote:

I love vietnamese food, especially beef pho and spring rolls are my
favorites.

What are some of you favorite vietnamese food?

I enjoy Bun, Vietnamese rice noodle dishes. I frequently get lemongrass
grilled chicken Bun, Bun Ga Nuong. Grilled beef is also excellent.

I have many dishes on my list:

fresh spring rolls
bun dishes
canh chua (hot and sour seafood soup)
bun bo Hue (pork and beef soup)
chicken kho (braised in caramel sauce)

Most of this stuff I have made at home.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:11:52 -0500, Phil Lassiter
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:54 -0700, "Alai" wrote:

I love vietnamese food, especially beef pho and spring rolls are my
favorites.


I'm a pho bo fan my myself. I even had a vietnamese friend teach me
to pronounce it correctly when I was living in Minnesota, which never
ceases to amaze the waiters. The authenticity comes in the rising and
falling tones and non-english sounds in the name of this wonderful
soup. The word, Pho, looks like it should be pronounced in english as
"Fo", but it is actually pronounced "P' oe" (P with a puff of air +
the german "o umlaut" or the french "eu" ). The tones of the word are
indicated by the diacritical above the word. In this case, the
closest english equivalent would be the question, "Pho?" (hence the
inverted "question mark" above the word itself). Bo is rendered with
the diacrictical ` which means a descending tone.
Vietnamese was originally written with chinese characters, but the
french introduced the latin script with a few extra letters during
their occupation.
Amaze your waiter by pronouncing the dishes correctly. It's easy
and well received! Pronounce the word as in french and simply follow
the diacriticals over the vowels to get the tones right:
- flat
' ascending
` descending
^ ascending then descending
? or , like a question
(weren't those french linquists clever?)

Strange letters? Still no problem...
O' = oe ("er") german "O Umlaut"
U' = ue ("ooy") german "U Umlaut"
NH = ny
NG (at the beginning of a word) = "ung" (without emphasizing the
intial vowel)
X = sh

As an example: To^m Bo` Nu' 'o'ng Vi- --table grilled shrimp and
beef is pronounced:
Approximate English transliteration: To(up and down tone)m Bo (down
tone) Nyu (up tone) erng Vi (straight tone).

Here's your Vietnamese lesson for the day:
Greet your sever with : Xin chào! (shin chow) and you'll get extra
attention and better food.

Gregor Samsa wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:11:52 -0500, Phil Lassiter
wrote:


On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:54 -0700, "Alai" wrote:


I love vietnamese food, especially beef pho and spring rolls are my
favorites.



I'm a pho bo fan my myself. I even had a vietnamese friend teach me
to pronounce it correctly when I was living in Minnesota, which never
ceases to amaze the waiters. The authenticity comes in the rising and
falling tones and non-english sounds in the name of this wonderful
soup. The word, Pho, looks like it should be pronounced in english as
"Fo", but it is actually pronounced "P' oe" (P with a puff of air +
the german "o umlaut" or the french "eu" ).


A restaurant called Pho Republique in Boston's South End has the
pronunciation shown under the section for Pho, in quotes "fuh".

But when I ask my wife if she wants to go get some, I usually say
"Fo Ho"?

--
Dan

Peter Dy wrote:
"Gregor Samsa" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:11:52 -0500, Phil Lassiter
wrote:


On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:54 -0700, "Alai" wrote:


I love vietnamese food, especially beef pho and spring rolls are my
favorites.


I'm a pho bo fan my myself. I even had a vietnamese friend teach me
to pronounce it correctly when I was living in Minnesota, which never
ceases to amaze the waiters. The authenticity comes in the rising and
falling tones and non-english sounds in the name of this wonderful
soup. The word, Pho, looks like it should be pronounced in english as
"Fo", but it is actually pronounced "P' oe" (P with a puff of air +
the german "o umlaut" or the french "eu" ).



?? No. "Ph" is pronounced as [f]. The "o" is a "upper mid back unrounded
diphthong," ie. strarting at an upper mid position and ending higher.
German ö and ü and French "eu" and "u" do not exist in Vietnamese--it has no
front, rounded vowels. See Thompson, Laurence C. _A Vietnamese Reference
Grammar._ Honolulu: UHP (1987).

I don't think you want to see me in a dipthong.. but anyways, isn't it
pronounced "fuh"?

--
Dan

"Dan Logcher" wrote in message
...
Peter Dy wrote:
[...]
?? No. "Ph" is pronounced as [f]. The "o" is a "upper mid back
unrounded diphthong," ie. strarting at an upper mid position and ending
higher. German ö and ü and French "eu" and "u" do not exist in
Vietnamese--it has no front, rounded vowels. See Thompson, Laurence C.
_A Vietnamese Reference Grammar._ Honolulu: UHP (1987).

I don't think you want to see me in a dipthong.. but anyways, isn't it
pronounced "fuh"?


Basically, yes. The English vowel is just lower in the mouth than the
Vietnamese "o'". And, as I noted, in this case, I'm pretty sure it's a
dipththong, so you're starting at a higher position in the mouth than
English "uh" and ending even higher.

Like English "uh," the Vietnamese vowel is unrounded and somewhat back in
the mouth, so that is why it is a good approximation. That is not the case
with German ö and ü which are in the front of the mouth and which have the
lips rounded, like you're gonna kiss a cute Mädel.

Peter

"Peter Dy" wrote in message
. com...

"Dan Logcher" wrote in message
...
Peter Dy wrote:
[...]
?? No. "Ph" is pronounced as [f]. The "o" is a "upper mid back
unrounded diphthong," ie. strarting at an upper mid position and ending
higher. German ö and ü and French "eu" and "u" do not exist in
Vietnamese--it has no front, rounded vowels. See Thompson, Laurence C.
_A Vietnamese Reference Grammar._ Honolulu: UHP (1987).

I don't think you want to see me in a dipthong.. but anyways, isn't it
pronounced "fuh"?


Basically, yes. The English vowel is just lower in the mouth than the
Vietnamese "o'". And, as I noted, in this case, I'm pretty sure it's a
dipththong, so you're starting at a higher position in the mouth than
English "uh" and ending even higher.

Like English "uh," the Vietnamese vowel is unrounded and somewhat back in
the mouth, so that is why it is a good approximation. That is not the
case with German ö and ü which are in the front of the mouth and which
have the lips rounded, like you're gonna kiss a cute Mädel.


BTW, Thai also does not have a German ö or ü, even though some books will
tell you it does! It's the basically the same as with Vietnamese: you've
got these two strange-sounding, mid-high and high, back, unrounded vowels.

To say the high one, say the vowel in English "too" and keep everything the
same expect unround your lips, ie. spread your lips.

To say the mid-high one, say English "go," but again, spread the lips.

If interested, see this vowel chart, which corresponds to one's mouth. In
the "back" column, the upside-down "m" is the high one. The gamma symbol
right below it is the mid-high one, like in "pho'." The upside-down "V"
directly below that is the English "uh" sound.

http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/vowels.html

Peter

"Dan Logcher" wrote in message
...
Gregor Samsa wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:11:52 -0500, Phil Lassiter
wrote:


On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:54 -0700, "Alai" wrote:


I love vietnamese food, especially beef pho and spring rolls are my
favorites.

I like a lot of Vietnamese food and have tasted food throughout Vietnam, but
the first thing that comes to mind is something I eat regularly here at
Little Paris in San Francisco which I call the Vietnamese Big Mac. Basically
it's the rice noodle bowl with pork kebab and imperial roll with syrupy
sweet Nuoc Cham.

"Peter Dy" wrote in message
om...

"Bubbabob" wrote in message
. 3.30...
Dan Logcher wrote:


Really? That's how I've had it too. Isn't it the same thing
they put on Bun?


Yeah.


I wonder if this is an accommodation for American sugar addicts.


Bubba, of course Nuoc Cham has sugar in it!


Or maybe you were thrown off by OP's "syrupy" description? If so, yeah, I
agree; I don't remember ever having syrupy nuoc cham.

Now, the Thai sauce to accompany Gai Yang (BBQ Chicken) is syrupy.

Peter

"Bubbabob" wrote in message
. 3.30...
wrote:

Bubbabob wrote:
[ . . . ]
SWEET Nuoc Cham? Never heard of it.

I'm with you on that. Nuoc Cham is spicy fish sauce, as I recall. I
guess
it does have a 'little' sugar in it.

Along with garlic, red chiles, and lime juice.


I did not realize so many people responded to my sweet Nuoc Cham comment.
:-)

There are variations on it - sour, spicy, sweet, etc. One recipe I looked up
on the fly after your interesting comments required 5 tablespoons of sugar
for about 1 1/2 cups of sauce. Not syrupy necessarily, but maybe there is a
better word. I can imagine places amping up the sugar for Western or spoiled
Eastern palates. It's really not so bad with the charred pork and crunchy
imperial roll. Watch that waistline though. I usually walk home via the
Sacramento Street hill after sating my craving. Little Paris is snackin'
good. - cheers

cheers

I'm not sure what this dish is called but its hamburger marinated with fresh
minced garlic, minced lemon grass , fish sauce and black or white pepper and
a little fresh minced chili ( optional) then it is kneeded and left to
marinate for a few hours, then it is wrapped in a leaf of the betel pepper
vine (Piper betel) placed on a skewer and grilled.
usually we serve it with a dipping sauce of fish sauce , rice wine vinegar,
or lime juice, garlic , fresh chili pepper , and a teaspoon of sugar, my
buddy Hank gave me this recipe , he's from Vietnam , we often have Asian
cooking sessions and food chat, so thankful I live in florida where we can
grow alot of the hard to find tropical Asian produce and spices.
Anways give it a try if you can find the betel pepper vine leaves, and hope
you like it or substitute some other edible leaf

Todd
"ChildFree Abby" wrote in message
...
Bubbabob wrote:

wrote:


Bubbabob wrote:

[ . . . ]
SWEET Nuoc Cham? Never heard of it.

I'm with you on that. Nuoc Cham is spicy fish sauce, as I recall. I
guess
it does have a 'little' sugar in it.


Along with garlic, red chiles, and lime juice.


my local Vietnamese restaurant calls it "Trung sauce"

Abby

--
The ChildFree Abby Archives - http://www.dismal-light.net/childfreeabby/

Hi Peter,

As for American sugar addicts, sugar is a defining feature of Chinese and SE
Asian cuisine. (I guess Korea and Japan to some extent too.)

Sure! Open any Korean book about cooking - "soltang" is omnipresent:
There are many dishes (-chim and -chorim) that contain 1 part sugar to
3 parts of Korean soy-sauce (saltier than the Japanese one). And I'm
speaking of quantities measured in cups ...

And the pickles, namely pickled garlic: you cover young garlic, the dry
skins removed, but the heads intact, with vinegar-water for one week,
take them out of the liquid (keep it and use it for sour-garlicy
dishes) and cover them completely with a mixture of 1 part sugar to
three parts Korean soy-sauce, boiled for 10 minutes and cooled, let it
stand for 3 weeks (minimum!). It lasts forever - unless eaten, of
course. ;-D Delicious!

Bye, Sanne.

Bubbabob wrote:
"rmg" wrote:


"Dan Logcher" wrote in message
...

Gregor Samsa wrote:


On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:11:52 -0500, Phil Lassiter
wrote:



On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:54 -0700, "Alai"
wrote:



I love vietnamese food, especially beef pho and spring rolls are
my favorites.

I like a lot of Vietnamese food and have tasted food throughout
Vietnam, but the first thing that comes to mind is something I eat
regularly here at Little Paris in San Francisco which I call the
Vietnamese Big Mac. Basically it's the rice noodle bowl with pork
kebab and imperial roll with syrupy sweet Nuoc Cham.







SWEET Nuoc Cham? Never heard of it.

me either! i ate my way from the deep south to the far north for 4
weeks in VN and never did have this sweet nuoc cham you mention.
btw, in VN if you order springrolls you'll get the deep fried shite.
the fresh ones, goi cuon, are *the* rolls. and Vietnamese food in SF,
NY, YVR, Paris etc is pritty good, still not authentic, but when i need
a VN food fix that will have to do instead of a 20 hour flight.

Bubbabob wrote:
ChildFree Abby wrote:



my local Vietnamese restaurant calls it "Trung sauce"

Abby



Are you sure they're not saying tuong? Tuong is the generic name for all
sauces.


In the menu it is spelled "Trung" but, spelling may be creative

Abby

--
The ChildFree Abby Archives - http://www.dismal-light.net/childfreeabby/