Here's some more evidence for the "no kneaders". I make my big hole
boule by mixing the ingrediants until the flouris moistened, waiting
for a one hour autolyse and then kneading only long enough to
incorporte the salt. The bread rises fine, has big holes, paper thin
cellular walls, etc. etc.
williamwaller wrote in message news:mailman.29.1082645558.229.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
On 4/22/04 1:44 AM, "Tom Stanton" wrote:
"Ed Bechtel" wrote in message
...
Recent posts from Tom, Ken, and Will all attest to the method of minimal
kneading. Where I prefer to use long machine kneading cycles, Tom
suggested
that all that is required is a 1 minute mix, a 1 minute knead, and a 2
minute
knead, all by hand and with short rests in between.
So, last night I made a single batch of dough (about 56 ounces). Mixed it
briefly, and then parted it into two. I named the clumps Thing 1 and
Thing 2.
**snipped**
I was surprised that there was little difference between the two kneading
methods in the final products, but if you look very carefully you may be
able
to tell which loaf had less kneading.
It looks to me like thing 2's crumb is a bit more uneven and I would bet it
was hand kneaded - if I had to bet. However, having been trained as an
economist and therefore as a statistician - there is no appreciable
difference between those two crumb structures which couldn't just be
attributed to randomness.
I personally think those breads look pretty nice. I generally use all 70%
hydration (sometimes even a bit more with WW) but I like the 66% look. It
would be especially useful for sandwhiches - sometimes my mom complains that
mayonaise in her sandwich leaks through my bread (I told if she didn't quit
complaining she would lose the few loaves that I do drop off). Otherwise I
say - good show Ed, those look like quality bread to me - I especially like
the look of your crust. It has that sort of shiny look. Mine doesn't get
that - I think I use the spritzer alot. Plus my loaves are usually covered
in dusting flour.
If nothing - the low energy kneading method requires less output. No
electricity and minimal hand time. 
Tom
Ed,
Those are mighty fine looking examples you've posted. I don't think there's
an appreciable difference between the "things" either. Crusts and crumbs are
jewel-like...
It makes me wonder where the "long" kneading dogma originated. I can
understand KitchenAid providing advice for longer time. Who's going to spend
$300 (Kenneth's 20 qt. beast obviously excluded here) if they can flop the
dough on a board for two or three minutes? Still, there has been a
mechanical "develop the gluten" movement for years.
Perhaps my KitchenAid and I are due for a revised accommodation. Good thing
I've got that new stainless-steel-Italian-pasta-laminator attachment to
divert me. The basements in Wisconsin are cold places for early retirement.
Will
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